Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[skitter30]

i don't wanna 1v1 you on D1 skitter

Yeah I don't really want to right now either; it'll probably mess with the gamestate a lot. Hence I'm not voting you atm, especially since I really should be doing the problem set that's due tomorrow instead of this .

if you want me to respond to your case i will but

Specifically want you to address why you're handwaving away what I'm saying if you agree with me and think I have a point.

40% "i saw him as scum once and he did [x] [y] and [z]"

Right, and that's the thing that I was calling you scum there for and I was right, remember?

Reads are something like:

{ruru}
{tw}
{sunshine, ofrhz}
{oxy, uglyduck, pin, mohab} --- null
{scioness}
{AP, draynth}
{you}

I really gotta work on this problem set; I'll be around later when I can't stand staring at it any longer and need a break.

[Mathdino]

- what have i handwaved away other than your scumread on me
like you're not being a VI about it, i'm not gonna get all confrontational
but me handwaving well-reasoned scumreads is a strategy i picked up from my towngame and then applied to my scumgame
you haven't seen me under any pressure as town because i always try to clear myself as town as fast as possible in most games

- i was scum in that game for my tone, not for my content. that's why i'm telling you that read on you wasn't some kind of smoking gun in itself. again,

it was a correct read

, i was legitimately scumhunting, but the way i presented everything made me awkward scum.

- eek that reads list is worrisome

[AP]

specifically sheeping maths' mohab vote and the random oxy vote cuz oxy left him out of his readslist

OMG! You're a

tripod

tryhard.

So you didn't like me sticking my vote unto a wagon I liked to see how it felt, and you also don't like me swinging it around. Tell me baby, what is your thing?

VOTE: skitter

Now you can add OMGUS to your list. Let's call it.. reason #3

[the worst]

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to make votecounts easier to read and use. I reorganized the wagons to be alphabetical as well, so, don't try to analyze the list order, it is by number of votes and then by the alphabet. I have seen too many people try to analyze meanings in Vote Counts, but I believe that you can do this.

I laughed harder than I should have at this.

[Scioness Sajj]

Pretty decent shot scum!dino pushes that wagon on both town!Sajj and scum!Sajj

I can't imagine what SS looks like when she's about to get bussed but I actually feel like I would want to avoid that risk as scum due to her tendency to produce a lot of text

ugh

[Scioness Sajj]

hwhat do you exactly mean ruru

[the worst]

while we're getting stuff of our chests

Not interested. I'm hetero.

pff u wish

[Scioness Sajj]

we talk to each other and don't ignore people with our 10 day phases sunnnnnnshine (:

[Scioness Sajj]

let it be known that you asked for it
i am not actually tunneling you as hard as the following is going to make it seem

I think 13p is the perfect size game (give or take)
welcome. hope you enjoy it here.

sheeping the first rvs wagon to L-2 with nothing but a "hi" post pings me as more likely scummy than null/towny. L-2 also lacks the accountability of L-1 or even like a 2nd vote, it's a decent position for scum to be in.

idk if it were me I'd say something like "good wagon, evilduck must die (vote)" but that's not really the point.

I'm not lockscumming her ass and suggesting we lynch with fire but it's a great place to start

btw Math is super super heavily invested in the whole Mafia Discussion world and is incredibly sharp re. open setups. everything he says will be objectively correct or a highly educated opinion. but it's not alignment indicative.

1. game irrelevant comment

2. buddying newbies

3. overexplained version of "L-2 is often the scumspot on the wagon"

4. irrelevant sidenote

5. backs down from the scumread but justifies his vote as pro-town (i hate to say LAMIST but)

6. buddies me with correct knowledge of my gameplay

none of these things are scummy in themselves but the combination of all 6 and this many words without things that i think actually advance the gamestate makes me read it as
posturing?
LAMISTy?
busywork?
whatever term you use for "scum trying to act like town", that.

I agree with 2 and 5 but rest is a strech tbh

[the worst]

@universe anyone played with draynth before?

[Scioness Sajj]

ofrhz - thoughts on oxy?

[Scioness Sajj]

@Mathdino
Your "irrelevant sidenote" is actually a response to a question Sunshine had asked him directly.

I read this whole post is personality indicative of the worst - He's going to be welcoming, friendly, and overly helpful to new members of this site regardless of alignment.

Certainly, you have more experience with The Worst's game than I do, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

gross but also pretty towny

[Scioness Sajj]

It felt weird from her cuz I would have expected her to comment on wagon-speed or how it was the L-2 vote or something game-relevant. It was just a greeting and an empty vote and she's more .... game-aware I guess in my experience. It felt kinda like 'hi I'm here and I'm participating, don't pay too much attention to me!' from her since she was just voting where everyone else did without like any game-relevant commentary.

There's no one in this playerlist that I've played with before that I wouldn't have found that post to be weird from. I wouldn't find it to be weird from someone who I know to be wagon-happy/easy-with-their-vote/lolvoters. (I'm not describing the playstyle well. Specific examples of people I've played with who I think would enter the game like that include dunkerdoodles and ausuka, and sometimes not-mafia.)

idk who are you talking about but that's not me, lol. do you remember my rvs from last game?

[Scioness Sajj]

Answered inline

ruru is voting me because they townread you and I’m voting you. Thoughts regarding that very specific situation please.

I don't really want to speculate as to why she voted for you, as she was awfully sparse with her explanation in voting for you. Since you asked, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for her to think you're scumreading me (also see tw's question directed at you). ruru could be confused why you are scumreading someone she townreads. Additionally, neither ruru nor I were townreading you, yet you chose to single me out for doing so. I think this was genuine mistake on your part though, but she might have seen it differently.

I guess you can consider the following non-exhaustive list of points you can cover:

Is it a good vote?

I think she thinks it's a productive use of her vote. For relatively inexperienced players, I believe trying to find the motivation behind what they do is more important than what I think they should be doing with her vote. I elaborated on possible motivations above ^.

But to answer your question at face value, I think she should be voting for Mohab or AP or someone who hasn't bothered to talk in game

Will it progress reads on me and/or ruru?

See answer above. This also depends on her successive questioning and her ability to suss people out by engaging with them. I think that is a high ask for someone who is most likely playing her first game as town.

In summary, this, in addition to what I wrote earlier about her being more proactive this game, is why I am townreading her still. Have I answered your questions?

@other duckie, let him question me first.

This is super overexplained for no reason. I don't like that he suggests ruru should be going after lurkers.

[the worst]

And I think that for most people who played in that game, ruru is fairly obvtown at this point.

why just for people who played that game?

[the worst]

{ruru}
{tw}
{sunshine, ofrhz}
{oxy, uglyduck, pin, mohab} --- null
{scioness}
{AP, draynth}
{you}

- eek that reads list is worrisome

wai

[the worst]

let it be known that you asked for it
i am not actually tunneling you as hard as the following is going to make it seem

I think 13p is the perfect size game (give or take)
welcome. hope you enjoy it here.

sheeping the first rvs wagon to L-2 with nothing but a "hi" post pings me as more likely scummy than null/towny. L-2 also lacks the accountability of L-1 or even like a 2nd vote, it's a decent position for scum to be in.

idk if it were me I'd say something like "good wagon, evilduck must die (vote)" but that's not really the point.

I'm not lockscumming her ass and suggesting we lynch with fire but it's a great place to start

btw Math is super super heavily invested in the whole Mafia Discussion world and is incredibly sharp re. open setups. everything he says will be objectively correct or a highly educated opinion. but it's not alignment indicative.

1. game irrelevant comment

2. buddying newbies

3. overexplained version of "L-2 is often the scumspot on the wagon"

4. irrelevant sidenote

5. backs down from the scumread but justifies his vote as pro-town (i hate to say LAMIST but)

6. buddies me with correct knowledge of my gameplay

none of these things are scummy in themselves but the combination of all 6 and this many words without things that i think actually advance the gamestate makes me read it as
posturing?
LAMISTy?
busywork?
whatever term you use for "scum trying to act like town", that.

I agree with 2 and 5 but rest is a strech tbh

I know defending Math here is a fucking farce but
in his defence he did admit it was a bad case, wait for him to make a real case and we'll see how it stacks up

[the worst]

@Mathdino
Your "irrelevant sidenote" is actually a response to a question Sunshine had asked him directly.

I read this whole post is personality indicative of the worst - He's going to be welcoming, friendly, and overly helpful to new members of this site regardless of alignment.

Certainly, you have more experience with The Worst's game than I do, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

gross but also pretty towny

why's it gross?
why's it towny?

[the worst]

[/pretend to be mastina]

I'm caught up now. anyone around?

[Mathdino]

i am

kinda bored and kinda wanna just lynch in PoE until we win

7 townreads is enough to break the game

meaning 4 townreads that aren't PRs is enough to break the game

[the worst]

that's a clever tactic

for keeping all of your buddies alive til the end

do you have any draynth meta?

[Mathdino]

nah

looks like he hasn't played in a while

i could do a metadive but i'm also lazy and meta changes

[Scioness Sajj]

@Mathdino
Your "irrelevant sidenote" is actually a response to a question Sunshine had asked him directly.

I read this whole post is personality indicative of the worst - He's going to be welcoming, friendly, and overly helpful to new members of this site regardless of alignment.

Certainly, you have more experience with The Worst's game than I do, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

gross but also pretty towny

why's it gross?
why's it towny?

gross bcause I find this way of writing from him to be faked and forced. calculated and unnatural, it was bothering me last game.
towny becuase that's how i expect town oxy to be writing it's his first post in this game that actully pinged me.

[the worst]

His sr on me reminds me of when certain people have replaced into games and read my iso and been like l0lscum

A few of his other reads were pretty bad but it feels playstyle/maybe old site meta driven and awkward more than guarded

Maybe I'm predisposed to giving him slack because we're sitecat buds/twins?? I need a couple of checks on my take here.

[the worst]

gross bcause I find

this way of writing from him

to be faked and forced. calculated and unnatural, it was bothering me last game.

Does the bolded mean:
Given Oxy's personality you would not expect this tone?
Generally speaking you feel funny about Oxy's tone?