Newbie 680: In this town of Cookieland... Over!

[Capricious]

We have two confirmeds already, being the cop and doc. All we need are three players we feel are solid town to win.

I had thought of this long ago.

[Capricious]

Vote:Jerseygoomba

This is also a death sentence for guy0. If pops is scum, so be it.

[Capricious]

This two month-plus marathon has ended

[jerseygoomba]

Guys,

Ive been sick and havent had the energy to check in. Im not sure if Im L-1 or actually dead. EIther way, the town is screwed, because you are lynching the wrong guy. If I'm dead, its not worth posting why, so let me know if I am to bother reading the past two days of posts. Mock me all you want, but I GUARANTEE you have lynched a Townie.

If I'm at L-1, let me know.

[Mr. Flay]

Alas...

First and Final Vote Count of Day Two:

jerseygoomba: 3 (Moratorium, Capricious, popsofctown)

Not Voting: 2 (guy0, jerseygoomba)

jerseygoomba, Townie, lynched Day 3.
It is now Night 3; any/all night actions are due to me no later than the end of Sunday, Dec. 7th

(I'll dawn earlier if all choices are in).

[Mr. Flay]

Capricious's final night shift at the hospital went uneventfully. Unfortunately, the whole "start your car and drive home" thing did not, as someone had replaced his brake pads with bagels.

Capricious,

Doctor

, killed Night Three.
It is now Day Four; with just three left alive, two votes on anyone will end things.

[popsofctown]

Capricious is a "he".

There is little need to explain this:

Vote: guy0

If we are still onboard with the plan from yesterday, i would think there is no need for me to build a usual final day case, but i can do that if you want Moratorium.

[guy0]

Here is an incomplete argument as to why pops is scum, I was building it, but i don't have much time left so here's a piece of it.

Throughout this entire marathon of a game, I have felt that one person, who got some heat during day 1, was always overlooked in terms of scummyness. This was too often combated with, he’s just being nooby, or he should be in the Special Olympics or something. But I’ve never shaken the feeling that this person never truly received the amount of pressure that was needed to fully classify him as town or scum.
Oh ya, and if you haven’t figured out who I’m talking about yet … yah, well it’s none other than popsofctown.
Now I will go through everything in chronological order and explain why I think this person has a more than likely chance of being our mafia rb.
Day 1.
So pops does a random vote on someone who already had a random vote, not really suspicious, but his reaction is slightly

crap... i realized right after i posted it... Capricious is gonna vote me. But you other 8 got the good end of the stick so you won't vote for me right?
Heh, i'm happy i got my voting right.

So right off the bat he’s trying to avoid suspicion over the smallest thing, scumtell.

This is in response to young eric fake voting pops

Why the unvote and vote YOUNG ERIC? Not everyone has even checked in yet. You're putting me at L-3 because it goes with a funny joke? Yet you defended your initial vote with three reasons, two of them not jokes, when humor was expected. It seems like humor is just a cloak you pull out to "accidentally" start an early game bandwagon.

FoS: YOUNG ERIC

This is clearly pops overreacting to receiving some hear from YE, and, thus, and attempt to put all the suspicion on YE instead of himself, seems scummy and omgusy.

Then after being told that he was overreacting with his above post he says
I think if he was mafia he would want to accelerate things, try to pull a fake tell out of me, or switch from a vote to an FoS to push a wagon on me.

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy,

So he still wants to maintain the possibility of YE’s suspiciousness, thus, allowing someone that wasn’t himself to be a viable lynch candidate.
MME’s post sorta sums this up.

You're putting me at L-3 because it goes with a funny joke?

It's L-3...
-3
Not 1.

Why are you freaking out over a second vote?

Protip; you'll be getting more votes during the course of the game.

Also, it's quite hypocrite of you to put an L-3 (lol) on UNI during the "random" stage.

It was a random vote, obviously i can't prove it's a real random vote. I felt intentionally switching it to avoid an L3 would be too biased for the random vote phase.

Why do you care so much about the random stage? If you had switched your vote to eg me instead of UNI, no one would have known. You make such a formality of it, I fear that you will be using it as an apology-blanket later up in the game.

@post 41: we shouldn't move out of the random phase before martin 413 checks in.

Why? To cover your ass?

I don't see why we need a 3 pages + random phase. It's not obligatory to have a random phase. In fact, my first game didn't have one (except for the very first post).

Stop holding on to the random phase, it makes you suspicious imo.

Hey! i still think we should hold the nonrandom voting until after martin34 checks in. YOUNG ERIC's unvote sparked everything kind of early. but can we find out what martin34 or his replacement thinks of everything?

Why should we hold the nonrandom votes? Any logical reason behind it? A replacement can read 3-4 pages and reply afterwards. It's not that hard. In fact waiting now, just stalls the game. Is that what you want? To stall an active game?

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy, but i find his follow ups towny. I don't think you can vote him yet Barros

Wait, what? "wee bit"? "towny"? "can't vote for him yet"?

Did you find the heat on your scumpartner to be a bit too hot?
His actions weren't protown at all. Unfossing and unvoting after he got some attention. He's afraid to stick his neck out.

Vote: popsofctown

In response to MME pops says

It's L-3...
-3
Not 1.

Why are you freaking out over a second vote?

Protip; you'll be getting more votes during the course of the game.

I really emphasized the L-3 bit too much, it convoluted what i meant to say. The reason i used the word L-3, was to refute an anticipated argument from Young Eric, that voting for me was the same as any other random toss around vote.

I've admitted to an OMGUS component of my vote, but i did really have a reason:

The point i was trying to make, and it's logic based off the first few pages of a game i had read recently, is that scum try to cause innocents to get lynched without appearing responsible for the lynching. So i thought it was slightly scummy. And the vote itself might not lynch me, but the pressure might make me give a false scum tell (or some other person in the ensuing controversy), and he could leave that vote on me and say little, and it totally doesn't look like he was in charge of the innocent-lynch.

Also, it's quite hypocrite of you to put an L-3 (lol) on UNI during the "random" stage.

As i think Guy0 mentioned, YOUNG ERIC made an unvote -> vote. Like i said, i over-emphasized L-3. That wasn't the point, i was anticipating an argument (mentioned above) which probably never would've come.

Why do you care so much about the random stage? If you had switched your vote to eg me instead of UNI, no one would have known. You make such a formality of it, I fear that you will be using it as an apology-blanket later up in the game.

Prior to this game i was under the impression that the random stage is standard, and important. And to be honest.. i have this thing about cheating at a random generation method. I always decide what each outcome means, and bind myself to the outcome. Hm, actually i guess there's a reason behind that. I'm one of those people who has trouble choosing between two or three that are somewhere near equal. Sometimes i use coins to decide things. I've found if i cheat on my own coin toss, i get stuck in the same indecisive rut i was in (like if the coin says chocolate ice cream, and i disregard it i just wind up stuck between the two again.)

My point is... cheating on the number generator was definitely and totally out of the question. I hope you don't think i'm being overly defensive about the number generator, but i want to hammer it under the ground for good, because i think some of the misunderstanding of it comes from a fundamental difference between your personality and that of mine, not a question of strategic play.

@post 41: we shouldn't move out of the random phase before martin 413 checks in.

Why? To cover your ass?

I don't see why we need a 3 pages + random phase. It's not obligatory to have a random phase. In fact, my first game didn't have one (except for the very first post).

Stop holding on to the random phase, it makes you suspicious imo.

No, not to cover my ***. For a reason i'll explain more fully later on.

In answer to you command, if it makes me seem suspicious i'll drop it. Unvote

Hey! i still think we should hold the nonrandom voting until after martin34 checks in. YOUNG ERIC's unvote sparked everything kind of early. but can we find out what martin34 or his replacement thinks of everything?

Why should we hold the nonrandom votes? Any logical reason behind it? A replacement can read 3-4 pages and reply afterwards. It's not that hard. In fact waiting now, just stalls the game. Is that what you want? To stall an active game?

Why i think everyone should show up before nonrandom voting:

Whenever someone talks, they increase their chances of giving off tells. Mafia greatly increase their chance of giving off real tells, while townies slightly increase their chances of giving off false tells.

If we start the nonrandom phase after everyone gets here, the scums are 2/9. If we get everyone to talk evenly, we have a pretty good chance, say 4/9, of scum tell showing before false scum tell.

But if not everyone participates the odds are worse. What if the absentee is scum? We can't accuse him later of being scum just because he wasn't here. Yet, when we all talk and try to find scum tells, our odds of finding scum has dropped. Only 1/8 people is scum. If i use the same ratio as the former example, that would give us a 1/4 chance of getting scum.

^^^That much is what was behind my actions. Now that i look at it, pretty much totally disregarded the other case, that the absentee isn't scum. That is indeed more likely, and indeed slightly increases our chance of getting scum. Now that i see that... i feel better about not waiting around.
Just to superglue my feet to the soapbox though... in the case that the absentee is not scum, advancing to voting without everyone present is still disadvantageous, because that absentee can't help you find scum. Wink

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy, but i find his follow ups towny. I don't think you can vote him yet Barros

Wait, what? "wee bit"? "towny"? "can't vote for him yet"?

Did you find the heat on your scumpartner to be a bit too hot?
His actions weren't protown at all. Unfossing and unvoting after he got some attention. He's afraid to stick his neck out.

I encourage everyone to read this quote of me defending ERIC in context. It's a kneejerked reaction to Barros aggressive vote on ERIC, in a tone that sounds pretty much ready to drop a hammer.

To be honest, I didn't think his follow up was as suspicious as Barros makes out partly because i felt like i made a good argument for why he should take it back. I'm kind of seeing now that no one but me thought i had come up with a jewel of logic, and ERIC's withdrawal is pretty scummy. I alone criticized his vote, and his vote was for me.. a single critic who isn't a neutral party does indeed seem like too little pressure to cause the withdrawal. The post to the effect of "man, finally people are talking now" sees a bit contrived (if i know what that word means.). It's like a reasoning for his withdrawal that should've gone along with the brief post that included his withdrawal. At this point, it looks like distancing for me to vote ERIC, but i feel like i oughtta stand somewhere for now. Vote: YOUNG ERIC (this post contains an unvote)

Anywhoo, if this ERIC + popsofctown thing catches on, recognize lynching either one of us confirms or denies it. I think ERIC is more suspicious than me, he's slower to justify his actions, quieter, less spineful.

This quote just screams! Oops, that move was a little too suspicious, i’m apologizing for all the suspiciousness I put forward, but just remember, we could still lynch YE.
Then pops says, to make sure we lynch YE instead of himself

ok.... so the popsofctown + ERIC thing has caught on....

let's look at this carefully.

case 1: popsofctown was protecting ERIC because that's his scumbuddy: killing either popsofctown or ERIC will result in a mafia corpse. It's pretty much town win... you kill the other one, it's over.

case 2: popsofctown was protecting ERIC for a different reason. If we lynch popsofctown, we killed him only because of the popsofctown+ERIC theory. There is no other tell it's based off of, so there's just the good old 2/9 that i'm actually mafia.
If we lynch ERIC, we kill the guy based on the popsofctown+ERIC theory, but with the additional reasoning pointed out by Barros: ERIC seemed like he wouldn't really stick out his neck on something. He tries to slurk back to the background, and he still hasn't actually come up with a single reason for voting me on page 2, besides "Mosquitos are attracted to scum"

Moratorium sums this up rather well when he says

So your argument on why I shouldn't vote for you is:

*wave hands*

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN. ERIC IS THE TRUE SCUM.

*wave hands*

That's isn't a defense, that's a diversion.

There is no other tell it's based off of, so there's just the good old 2/9 that i'm actually mafia.

Your "other" tell right now is your voting history and FoS diversion. Just because you are trying to convince everyone that "hey, Eric is MUCH Scummier that me, he has *2* tells, I only have 1!" doesn't make you any less guilty in my eyes.

Pops then says

ERIC isn't the true scum.... there's just more reasons to lynch him independent of the supposed relationship between me and ERIC.

Did I just read that right? So even though you don’t think YE is scum, you still want to lynch him?

After receiving some heat for the above mentioned scummyness, pops goes on a string of WIFOM arguments, which, after being identified as WIFOM by many, goes on to say

I understand what you are saying, and i now get that that is what you were saying in the first place. You're saying, if Eric is lynched and clean, everyone will probably be like "whoa, were we wrong", and then i would probably get a disproportionally low amount of attention for a while.
Of course, now that you've mentioned that, you should offset that effect i think, suspicion would linger on me.
After following this excercise in thought, I realize how little information we as a town get from killing Eric. (or me..) All it does is dispel one conspiracy theory, and as you've now shown it doesn't even dispel all suspicions about my actions. My main reasons for wanting to vote him were that i think he's exhibited some scum tells, so i felt like "me or him, well Eric has done some iffy stuff i might as well go with the flow on this", but you've kind of shown me that's not really fair. He's exhibited some scum tells, but I'm not sure if i'm being fair any more. He isn't any fishier then Barros, and i'm partly pushing Eric in this "OMG get out of my sinking rowboat" kind of way. Is that really fair? i dunno right now.. It doesn't sound any purer than OMGUS votes, maybe it is purer somehow, but I'll revote Eric when i figure that out (or when i actually think he's the most suspicious player)

unvote

Where he essentially says, uh oh, this whole YE thing has gotten out of hand, how about I make up a reason why lynching either of us does nothing, then I might be able to get him later.



so ya

vote: popsofctown

[guy0]

I think we've just assumed pops is stupid and not scum for too long, and it is time to re apply that pressure

[popsofctown]

ooh! ooh! In greenwich mean time it's already my birthday ! *says happy birthday to himself in a British accent*


anyhoo, what i said last post still stands.

[Moratorium]

vote: guy0

Sorry, no, I've already made my own read-through of players, if pops is scum he deserves to win through sheer rainman-esque tendencies.

Cross your fingers, town.

[My Milked Eek]

*embraces for impact*

[Moratorium]

ack stop kissing me

[My Milked Eek]

But I love you ;_;

[popsofctown]

Aw, I'm in MME's sig! Do you love me too MME?

Did you actually read guy0's case Moratorium? It had scumtells in it. They made me smile.

[Moratorium]

I read it, and I actually read the entire game again.

So pops, are you town? Did town just win?

[My Milked Eek]

Depends...

Are you scum?

[Moratorium]

I'm town.

[My Milked Eek]

That question was aimed at pops with his "do you love me?" question.

Tbh, you guys took way too long to lynch Barros >=(

[Moratorium]

Tbh, you guys took way too long to lynch Barros >=(

I tried.

Also, what is an Eek, how do you milk it, and why do you own one?

[My Milked Eek]

Errr...

Eek!


I'm usually known on the internet as MikkelDemey. Anagram'd = MME. I found it a funny name so I started using it more than MD.

[guy0]

congrats guys you won, but only really because moratorium got really lucky when investigating barros, mortorium was clearly going to be next to go had he not had a guilty investigation choice from night one, but i still managed to make it to endgame which isn't too shabby

[popsofctown]

Yes! What a great birthday present!

I don't think moratorium was "lucky" investigating barros. Barros was suspicious. Moratorium knew my talking would venerate or condemn me, and it worked.


You made one or two major mistakes in this game guy0, you should look at them. Most especially the N2 NK. You should have killed Capricious. Capricious was all too perceptive of Barros' guilt, you could have predicted that he would help the town win the game. Mana_Ku was less useful, a burden off our shoulders almost.

[Moratorium]

I had a lot of fun with this game, thanks everyone. Quick personal address to each of you:

Barros

, I think you were in a tight spot as far as putting together a viable counterclaim, and did the best you could. I also suspect that perhaps english isn't your first language? Others may not have picked up on this and instead might have interpreted any spelling/grammar as nervousness. That's just a guess.

Capricious

, I totally didn't catch on that you were the doctor (which only made sense what with your sense of certainty about everything once you knew the roles on Day 2), although to be honest I didn't know if there was a doctor at all until the last two days. As such, you were my biggest suspect on Day 2 (I investigated you N2) because I really didn't think through how someone could come to completely trust my claim in 4 minutes.

guy0

, I actually didn't much have a read on you as to whether you stuck out more than, say, Jersey, as the last mafia. That, fortunately for me, stopped mattering once I saw pops as town, and Capricious' claim crystalized in my head. In general, over the course of the game, you did what you needed to do to keep yourself out of too much trouble. I also kinda felt bad that you'd gone through the trouble to put together that big post at the end, knowing that it was for nothing since we had out minds made up already. But if we hadn't made our minds up, that post still seemed very "you're only posting this now??" to me, too little too late i thought.

Jerseygoomba:

Sorry we had to lynch you Jersey, but we were at a point in the game where we just had to go through the motions and kill the two people we found guiltiest. So when I read this...

Guys,
Ive been sick and havent had the energy to check in. Im not sure if Im L-1 or actually dead.

EIther way, the town is screwed, because you are lynching the wrong guy.

If I'm dead, its not worth posting why, so let me know if I am to bother reading the past two days of posts. Mock me all you want, but I GUARANTEE you have lynched a Townie.
If I'm at L-1, let me know.

...I guess I was a little sad that you didn't see what we were doing. Lynching you was a winning move, either you or guy0 had to be town, so we were lynching both of you in the final two days. So you got lynched. And you won. Congrats!

Mana Ku

, about that PM you sent me during this game about my wife, although she doesn't play anymore she ended up reading this game almost as much as I did.

My Milked Eek

, was sad to see you get killed because I thought you were town and you had a habit of posting with lots of deliberative answers to questions, particularly with pops. I guess in this newbie game none of us newbies had much for questions for you and Capricious.

Young Eric

, all your name does it remind me of how crappy of a D1 we as town had, and me in particular. My tone on D1 was very aggressive, and I had it in my head that both you and pops were scum and that was it. I was too hard-headed about it, and once I started getting votes on me on Day 2, felt like I'd singlehandedly blown the game for town, which is what the post 164 claim was born from. Without that claim, good chance I'm lynched Day 2, and probably an overall loss for town. So Young Eric, thanks buddy, you set me straight by not defending yourself enough to not get lynched.

And finally, Mr. Flay

, we all appreciate that you took over this game from STD, and I look forward to your final day of flavor, if only because it totally confuses you (bagels for brakes?).

[Moratorium]

Oh and I forgot one:

popsofctown

, in the end, in a painful bit of irony, your personality in the game actually ended up being a benefit because it allowed Capricious and I to discount you as possible scum, immediately eliminating several endgame scenarios and making things pretty easy at the end.

A lot easier than, say, lynching Barros, for example.

GG all.