Mafiascum.net

In post 4393, Nachomamma8 wrote:If you were town and felt you were obvious town, you wouldn't feel this way. you would feel like you had just found scum-Nacho running out from his comfortable safety net from an obvtown position, and you would make it your singular goal to take me down and make yourself obvious town in everyone's eyes as a result.

You're saying I'm not going to do something...and then proceed to describe why by using me doing that exact fucking thing. My singular goal IS to take you down. But I'm no fool. The fucking votecount will tell you that much, and so does past experience. I said it way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in GvE, CvL, that I couldn't win the fight against you with you-as-scum and me-as-town. It's still just as true now as it was back then. I am not as charismatic. This is not a fight I enter with any chance at all of winning. Obvtown be damned! Yes, I'm fucking obviously town. Anyone reading my goddamned posting without confirmation bias, without emotional attachment, and putting so much as an iota of effort into reading my fucking mindset would be able to figure that out. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. Yes, I should. No, I won't.

Even if I didn't get lynched! I wouldn't be able to force the lynch onto you. But I will do my to make it happen.
Because while I don't know what exactly sparked the reveal, something did. And I'm willing to bet it's that I hit something that the scumteam desperately was hoping I wouldn't hit on. I don't know what, exactly, that would be. I only have my theories. But I know you're scum. I know AP's scum. And that's a damn-good starting point.

In post 4397, Nachomamma8 wrote:You didn't plan to enter a 1v1 fight against me.

'Course not.

But I have a choice on whether to enter into it, no?

A scum-me would never even so much as attempt to risk it. A scuMastin if faced with a Nacho scumread? Will do everything in her power to switch that around. Plead. Beg. Reason. Misdirect. Use logic. Try to shake it. Push it elsewhere. NAME A SINGLE FUCKING SCUMGAME OF MINE WHERE I DIDN'T DO THIS. Can't? There's a goddamned reason for that; it's because that's how I act as scum and you damn-well KNOW it is.

But you as scum? Hell fucking yes, I am going to enter into that fight. Even knowing I'm going to lose. Even knowing most players aren't going to pay attention to my points after I die. For the chance. So much as the chance. That's all I really need, a chance however remote. That someone actually does listen, and realizes I was onto something.

In post 4398, Nachomamma8 wrote:Has there ever been a game where mastin, as engaged town, has really been so lost in herself while simultaneously attempting to keep everyone else's egos in check? I have trouble imagining her not making ego checks every once in a while when she says things like what she said to BRO earlier.

THE EGO CHECKS.
ARE RIGHT FUCKING THERE.
IN MY FUCKING POSTING.

Ever since the third damn page of my iso has begun.

Yes, I've had relapses back in.
But I've been pulling myself out.
Constantly, and consistently.
Whenever I notice that compromisation.

And done damage control, trying to bridge the gap, to make the bad be turned into good. Most recently among them? Being how when I got furious at ffery, I ended up with a townread on Stalin whereas before they were a concern, considered as being scum. But then I took a step back. I put my feelings aside, and had a moment of clarity, where I realized that she was town.

YOU EVEN FUCKING SAW THAT QUOTE AND ITS EFFECT.

In post 4400, AngryPidgeon wrote:Are you referring to the post where she told BRO never to play with her again if he was town?

Right, that.
Not exactly taking that back, by the way.
It's just been degraded from "never play with me again" to "never pretend you can read me again", a-la, Fate admitting that he gave up his right to read xRECKONERx a long time ago.

Still was probably emotionally compromised at that stage, albeit less so than earlier (and some of my later times).

And, yes. I fully realize that as I'm typing this, I'm in one of the more compromised states that I've been in for...quite a while.
But when up against Nacho's bullshit, well. I'm kinda losing my shit. Because everything he's saying is flat, hollow, faked, looking good and making sense on the surface, but which, well, I know to be bullshit. Not the best way to describe it, but best wording I can think of.

Ironically, I think it's AP who's said it best. Nacho's not reading my posts for reasons I might be scum, but rather, shooting down all points against why I couldn't be scum, while raising plenty of his own.

In post 4401, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 4303, MastinSSK wrote:ffery threw her diplomat hat on the ground, and stomped on it. Repeatedly.

How so?

*points to her post*
She flat-out said she was done interacting with me. At all. Refusing to. Rejecting my points. Not listening to me. You can't get more spit-in-the-face-of-diplomacy than that.

You want ffery to run interference between the CF-JSU crowd and you, since she's acted as mediator earlier in the game for a pretty long time.

Except basically every fucking point she's made as a mediator? I made well before her. And I don't need her assistance there. Because F-16 is talking to me without her, and DesBRO wasn't townreading her at the time, meaning that'd be useless. I gain nothing from doing it as scum.

She starts to turn against you, you start to turn against her.

Where's me turning against DesBRO, F-16, Titan, or such? I don't "turn against" players scumreading me for the act of scumreading me. (Okay, I do...as scum. Not as town.) I "turn against" players who I had been thinking were town, that show something highly-uncharacteristic of what I was expecting of their towngame. Which most commonly, admittedly, manifests in suspecting me, but it's never the act of suspicion itself. It's how the suspicion is handled.

In post 4403, Nachomamma8 wrote:And I hate how she talks about her emotions instead of shows them.

MY EMOTIONS.
ARE FLOWING THROUGH THE FUCKING KEYBOARD AS I SPEAK.
You can't hear the pounding. You can't feel the sweat on my hands, as I rest them on my laptop and feel them burning, not from the heat in the atmosphere, but from the rage on here. You can't see it. BUT YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN SEE THEM ALL THE SAME.

The emotions are there. I bring them up to convey points, like that I was feeling frustrated with ffery, but said frustration made me realize she was and was town for it. They fucking BLEED through my posting. And I do occasionally reference them, especially when more calm. ("...And I got compromised again" or similar.) But they emotions. COULD NOT BE SHOWN ANY BETTER.

If "telling, not showing" was actually true, it'd be a valid point. But there's no way. No fucking way. You could think. For so much as a FRACTION of a second. That my emotions aren't shining. ALIGNMENT BE DAMNED. YOU DAMN-WELL KNOW I'M FEELING WHAT I'VE SAID.

See the fucking red, with dashes of yellow and orange? That's the color of rage. In calmer moments of Tranquil Fury, it might be various shades of blue, a fire still burning intensely with extreme heat, but subdued in visual keys, because it is more subtle. But you can't get a bigger bundle. A bigger pile. An absolute explosion. I've tried keeping it under control. I've tried being more reasonable. But it is really, really hard. Not to slip. When faced with bullshit like this. Words that sound good but are misapplied. That in a different context and circumstance would be town but in this one are scum.

In post 4405, Nachomamma8 wrote:When she goes "Nacho isn't sorting me, my #1 priority is to sort [Nacho?]", then doesn't sort or engage me and goes on a dream rant, yes, it's scummy.

Fair point about me not focusing more on you. I got distracted. But I'm scumreading you. Harcore. I'd love to be wrong. But I'm not. Not on this. You've been saying you're trying to sort me with your words, but your actions are doing nothing but painting me as scum. (This would be hypocritical of me if I wasn't willing to admit that while I wanted to sort Nacho, I've already done so into scum. Basically, the difference is again not in the action, but how it was handled.)

I don't think town-Mastin procrastinates in digging into me when she has a goal and she has a need.

In general, procrastination is a nulltell. But guess what? Look at what my posting has been ever since you've come in. Exactly what you're saying, it's been fucking digging into you with a clear goal in mind.

In post 4407, AngryPidgeon wrote:Now you are arguing that mastin is being opportunistic in sheeping people's doubt on you for easy towncred and that shes not actually made any effort towards scumhunting you. I don't really have a good response for either of those.

If this were to be an accurate summary, then it's absolutely bullshit, since there's one thing.
ONE. Damn. thing.
That above all else.
Nacho would know about a scum me.

I don't give a damn about how viable or not-viable a push is. I'll develop my read on my own fucking time, and say what you will, but my reads are NEVER opportunistic. Fuck, they're rarely even possible-to-BE-opportunistic, and even if they were, then they were not made out of opportunism, but rather, because I chose to make the read change.

In post 4408, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 4357, MastinSSK wrote:"I don't really trust anyone" *next line* "I'm basically trusting you".

Why do you think that's scummy?

Well, AP's defense of the point was fair, but why I thought it was scummy should be painfully fucking obvious, because it showed to me an inconsistency in thought pattern that wasn't something I saw coming from town.

In post 4357, MastinSSK wrote:And again. Really, really. Don't think. AP would ever truly consider. An actual policy-lynch.

Why not?

Aside from it being against what I know about AP in general? It also goes against AP's belief about ME in general.

The distraction would be nothing but a waste of time for scumAP: why would he pursue it?

Well, aside from me disagreeing with it being nothing but a waste of time, I can list a myriad of different reasons why AP would pursue it.

In post 4409, AngryPidgeon wrote:Are you SCUMREADING me over this?

No, I'm scumreading you because you're scum.
/actual circlejerk.

(More seriously, I'm not actually sure how to properly articulate my current reasons for scumreading AP, really. His mindset not making sense. His interactions. His overall play simply seeming off.)

In post 4410, CarbonFiber wrote:Brian's post resonates with me and re-inforces my townread.

You know, logically, I actually agree with this. Brian Skies's posts actually look really, really good and make me want to townread them. But I can't help but think that my gut-feeling was right. In part because of POE off of other feelings, and in part because Nacho went ballistic (ha) on me after I revealed my Red Gyarados-is-a-scum-vig theory.

In post 4412, Yggdra Union wrote:-Nacho is town and I'll never support anything resembling a lynch on him

And after I flip town, reading his posting about me knowing his history with me, what then?

-I don't like anything AP did recently. his entire push on CF sucks ass

I'll lynch AP in a heartbeat. Would you? 'Cause you've been voteparking me basically the entire game in spite of scumreading other players.

-mastin has literally ACKNLOWLEDGED she's been flooding the thread with bullshit and her response to that is? continue flooding the thread with bullshit. sounds legit

Yes.

I'd pay cash money for a vig shot on mastin right now just to stop all the fucking posts

...Which would be a waste of money, considering, y'know. Bulletproof.

In post 4414, Yggdra Union wrote:

She literally does not give a shit about working with town and the health of town as a collective.

Admittedly. During more emotional times. I haven't.

But when sane?

THIS IS THE ENTIRETY OF MY FUCKING POSTING. Read my damn iso on page three.
NOTHING.
BUT.
REACH-OUT.
AFTER.
FUCKING.
REACH-OUT.

FALLING. ON. GOD. DAMNED. DEAF. EARS.

In post 4283, AngryPidgeon wrote:Fox/Hound: Can you two explain where exactly you stand on everyone right now and on reads that you disagree on, why? Im having a hard time recalling/tracking what you two actually are thinking. Your vote on me and unvote (fake edit) and vote on mastin and unvote is really non-committal. Do you actually have a reason for thinking Cupcake is scum or is that just a whatever vote?

I have a post not too long ago that has thoughts pretty similar to what they are now. I do have a reason for voting Cupcake (which is still only me at this stage), but it's the kind of thing that I'll have a better idea of the longer I go without explaining it, so I'm not going to unless I'm going to push his lynch.

In post 4283, AngryPidgeon wrote:Do either of you have a read on: PV, Nacho, F16?

Ceph obviously is considering PV-scum, and while I see a couple of concerning things lately, I was leaning town on him before the last day or so. I think we're pretty agreed on the Nacho slot being townish but not TOWN, and Carbon Fiber being TOWN but I miss FT (not that F16 isn't cool, because he is too!). I also don't know if either of these are changing for Ceph with his reading.

In post 4312, Titan wrote:I just feel hesitant about everything and I don't know what to do to make it make sense.

When I first started playing mafia I was really paranoid about everything and anything and even though the paranoia now is probably less controlled than I think it is, I have tried to sort of lower my standards for who I trust in a way and pretend to myself that I'm more confident than I actually am? I know it sounds bad, but I feel it's achieved a better result at least for me. Obviously this could be of no use to you whatsoever and I'm obviously not a model player, but I think a more relaxed (e.g. it's just a game and not the end of the world if I'm wrong) approach could possibly help here.

In post 4340, AngryPidgeon wrote:This vote probably wont move before deadline.

Do you think CF is getting lynched?

At page 175 and that will have to do for today.

In post 4415, Titan wrote:So, a couple years ago, in two separate games in which Mastin was scum in both. At the same time, she had dreams about the game and they both involved her being the hero of the game. Now a lot of people dream about mafia. I dream about mafia all the time and reference in it games when it happens, but I can't help but remember the last two times I saw Mastin have these grandiose dreams which were metaphors for what she was supposed to do in the game, she was scum.

Yes. So did I. And I knew you were in the game that I did it two years ago.

Don't give a shit. 'Cause being worried about my posting matching scumposting is...my scum meta. And I don't give a damn about a post resembling a scumgame, since I know it isn't.

In post 4416, CarbonFiber wrote:Another concern I had about Mastin was that her whole development into the town leader persona felt like she was telling a narrative about herself which was the same thing she did in ETL's resistance where I was scum with her.

There's a difference between creating a narrative (scumplay) and discovering (or thinking you've discovered) an existing one (townplay). In this case, I realized what was happening in the game. And have done my damnedest to maintain control, to be more civil and be more, well, like a leader should be. Because I saw it as being healthy.

But that? Is increasingly hard to maintain. When literally every fucking button that can be pressed about me. Is being pressed. Nacho's raised quite a few of mine, in fact, and I'm actually surprised that my posting is even remotely at the level of civility it's at right now because of it. (I'm attributing it slightly to my exhaustion, given that it's already 3 am, I started working on this game at...what, 1:30?...and am still not even close to being done.)

In post 4417, Titan wrote:But, his whole scum don't make/like noise point is trash. Scum love noise.

I could rant. I can ramble. Write a fucking mid-game MD article on this bullshit. But no word says it better than that. Maybe some scum do. But to me? Noise is just as much a fucking anti-scum thing as it is for the town, except in specific circumstances where it can be of use.

In post 4423, Yggdra Union wrote: it's just bad play to completely trust RBD's read - even if RBD is town, there's still a good chance mastin was able to fool him.

I HAVE NEVER FUCKING SAID TO TRUST HIS READS ENTIRELY. SIMPLY TO NOT FUCKING DISCARD THEM AS WORTHLESS AS THEY HAVE BEEN.
And bullfuckingshit is there a "good chance" I could fool Rancid.

Not a chance in fucking hell that I get by that radar. Two.
LITERALLY FUCKING TWO.
Players. Out of all the god-damned players I've ever played with. Ever.
Have that perfect accuracy.

And he's one of them.
I HAVE TRIED FOOLING HIM.
MULTIPLE FUCKING TIMES.
Never has worked. And let's say for a miniscule second that zMuffinman wasn't sure about me. He has Natirasha there to back him up. Which while it might sound trivial, is anything but; it was one of the main fucking factors contributing to their success in Attack on Titan. And also Too Many Heads.

it also directly contradicts her stance he's been pushing all game about being successfully able to manipulate people as scum.

People, yes.
One specific person, fuck no.
BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ZMUFFINMAN AND SOME RANDOM FUCKING SCUMMER. Or scummers in general. I can fool players in general. I canNOT. Literally CANNOT. Fool THAT specific player.

In post 4439, CarbonFiber wrote:But yeah, if you and Rancid are scum together, I don't think in most cases, you would want them janitored and that's not my issue.

But it should be.
Rancid's town and was Janned?
His reads were fucking important, and it also goes against what a scuMastin would do.
Rancid's scum and was janned by town? Then why the fuck hasn't the town come forward with a BIG FUCKING HUGE relevant piece of info?
Rancid's town and was janned by town? Same thing, and also adds in Rancid's reads being fucking important.
Literally the only scenario where there's anything even remotely "Mastin is a serious scum candidate" is exactly that, a scum-not-really-dead.

In post 4443, CarbonFiber wrote:The "

I don't think Rancid was scum but Mastin is

" is an unconventional idea that resonated at some level because not many brought up that idea before but it does make sense if Muffin had a misread and Mastin was milking it for everything it's worth (and of course I buy that Mastin wouldn't janitor him).

Try everyone in your neighborhood since D2 began? And Stalin, in particular.

He is thinking past the kind of tells that he would be expected to use.

...That, uh. Describes scum behavior, not town behavior.

In post 4486, CarbonFiber wrote:What if Mastin's actually town though and Nacho is using the suspicion on Mastin to get a lynch? AP would be scum in that case discrediting everything Mastin says but wanting to look good on a Mastin townflip.

...Which is exactly what I've been saying.

It would fit in with Mastin's role at least and explain some of the movements that have been going around the game.

Also something I said earlier. >_<

In post 4488, CarbonFiber wrote:Mastin, is it completely impossible that Muffin as scum had a "townread" on you and helped you make all the pushes you made so that he could look good to you? What makes you so certain that they were town?

It'd be a lie to say it was impossible. 99.99% improbable, though, yes. zMuffinman did say it himself, that his alignment regardless, he'd be forced to townread me with me-as-town. However, the everything about them is town.

I wrote the first part of the Ballad of Tales about aspects in their posting that looked town and talked about my history. The only things I didn't cover was Rancid's overall play, and how it is insanely town. Anyone who knows how to read zMuffinman and/or Nati should have been able to pick up on things, and simply on just how damn genuine they were in their posting, their stances, their everything. If such bets were feasible, quite frankly, I'd be willing to make a promise to retire for a number of months from playing mafia if I was wrong about them, simply because I am SO damn sure that if I was wrong then I'd have issues too damn large for me to ignore.

Your unmoving read on them is one of the things that concern me since I feel pretty good about them scum for the most part.

Bluntly, you don't have the history I do with him. They were town. They always were. If you ignored their literal actions and looked at their mindset thinking about what they would be thinking, you'd realize. They had emotions. They had thoughts. A progression. That was purely from town.

I don't think their attacks on me, JSU, Fox, or Titan were at all convincing.

And frankly, they would likely have been more convincing if Rancid WAS scum.

In post 4489, Red Gyarados wrote:Where has he misrepped anyone?

A lot of places, but most recently, on Titan. No longer thinking he's scum, though.

Also, why would I shoot someone I was townreading yesterday?

Me? I dunno. Rancid? Because you threatened him.

Secondly, me calling you a 'mafia treestump' was a joke.

A joke that happened to perfectly predict that I was a treestump.

Your vote was crossed off and in red. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you're essentially a treestump at that point in time.

Vote crossed off in red is voteless but with voice. Treestump carries the specific connotation of being immune to death.

Finally, why are you insinuating that I shot you when I'm pretty sure you heavily implied that you activated it yourself (maybe, I'd have to check up on that)?

My role's passive, not active.

In post 4496, Titan wrote:Mastin are you ignoring nachos push on you?

No, but generally, it's a safe assumption that my thoughts are presented linearly. That is, anything coming after what I quote doesn't exist yet in my mind. (Which is why I sometimes say that I thought of an idea first, it just got posted second. ) Meaning my response had to wait until I actually saw his bullshit.

And it's 4 AM in the morning. (4:15, actually.)
And I haven't done a damn thing except this game, when there's a whole iota of things that I NEED to do thanks to leaving for the competition.

...This is gonna be an all-nighter. :/

I've spoken my mind here, though. I don't have anything else to say for the moment. Other than to listen to my damn posting and read my damn mindset and track the thoughts I've been having. And that right now, I'm thinking AP-Nacho-orc-Red Gyarados.

In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

Really?

In post 4493, MastinSSK wrote:

In post 4387, AngryPidgeon wrote:

In post 4383, MastinSSK wrote:Yes, but still a scum pool all the same. My posting is more akin to how I'd expect a town-you to be handling a scumlist with those names.

[Mastin is strawmanning.]

I fail to see how. You had a POE list, used akin to a scum list. I had a similarly-formatted list, yet my handling of it was completely and entirely different.

The way that you treat a player when you have a scum read on them is completely different to how you treat a player when they are on the bottom of a POE list. When a player is your top suspect, you pursue them with a single minded aggression that never stops until something drastic happens: you case doubt on every claim they make, you give people town points for voting them. POE lists are a different environment entirely and their lunches are normally pushed by directing away from other, worse lynches.

In post 4514, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

Really?

You've probably gotten there. The basis of her read on me. Does it make sense to you that town-Tammy would form a read this way?

Usually when someone fabricates a town read on me it's close to this form. But in this case it's zeroed in, not floaty.

In post 4516, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:

In post 4514, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

Really?

You've probably gotten there. The basis of her read on me. Does it make sense to you that town-Tammy would form a read this way?

Usually when someone fabricates a town read on me it's close to this form. But in this case it's zeroed in, not floaty.

I went on a perusing journey of Tammy's ISO and got lost in that really town looking exchange with PV. Could you quote what you're thinking of because if I read it I totally forgot it

In post 4493, MastinSSK wrote:

So what of those 6 Poe scumreads (Cupcake, Yggdra, Kagura, PV, F-16, Red Gary) doesn't make sense?

Again not the point; my point isn't that the names make no sense at all, but rather, how you've handled them overall simply doesn't seem right. I wish the proper words were there to explain that. Though that said? If you want to get into reads that don't make sense in general...Cupcake you can say is anti-town, but you can't say is scum. Yggdra is arguably the same. F-16 as a scumread makes basically zero sense, either. The only three names there that even remotely are plausible are Nacho, PV, and Red Gyarados.

As in he hasn't pushed them like scum reads, right, you pushed that point. He hasn't been pushing them like scum reads because they are POE reads, which are different from scum reads.

Cupcake you can call scum. You'd be wrong, but you can certainly call him scum and not be scum for it. Yggdra is not a read like that at all and is a reasonable (but also bad) scumread if you haven't seen the neighborhood. Carbon was an on and off scum read of your lord Rancid so I'm not quite sure why you think AP couldn't interpret his posting as scummy.

In post 4493, MastinSSK wrote:

You have been arguing that you DONT scumread me as scum which is a lie.

Okay, better wording. I don't lie about my read. If I say I scumread you, I actually have somehow legitimately scumread you. Otherwise, I'm forced into a townread as scum.

And you don't treat reads on me the same way?

These are the main posts I think.

In post 4195, Titan wrote:

In post 4194, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Then take your own goddamn advice about confbias.

I feel like this is one of those things empire would point out to me after the game and say it came from a town ffery.

I'm still learning, but I feel like it's one of them.

In post 4308, Titan wrote:

In post 4301, CarbonFiber wrote:Okay, just read the last few pages, still in the process of digesting them.

So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.

It is mostly because sort of resonated with me. I think Breakfast is more likely town than scum but it has been frustrating at times to see eye to eye with ffery.

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

You, des/bro, peregrine and mastin. It's just that all of you guys line of questioning is more geared to "gotcha" than it is to scumhunting. That's how it looks from the outside.

I just think the way she's thinking about the game looks town, and maybe it's because she seems to be seeing the game somewhatimilarly to me. Her interaction with mastin and talk about mastin looks town. I mean I *suppose* I could be reading her wrong but I don't feel like I am. I feel like I've learned a bit from tales of vesperia and the board game where I incorrectly thought she could be scum for something like three days. She's hit some of the same notes here that she did there, and iirc she was prioritizing this game over that one when she had little time last month. I pointed out a post last night I thought was more likely a town!ffery post.

In post 4427, Titan wrote:

In post 4425, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

Interesting.

I made you paranoid when i said I thought you were my strongest town read didn't I? I figured it would.

Caution. Wind. Woooooo.

I want to take this at face value. I want an external check of some sort, though.

That does seem like the way Tammy would form a read on you.

I want to talk to someone about Clyton. He is the nullest of null-reads to me.

Nacho, what are your thoughts?