Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Almost50]

And with how many movies he made, fake claims were easier than the real ones.

[RightKnight]

Just so you all know it, the next Overkill will have tweaks to many aspects. No 2 role PMs will be exactly the same regardless of role/alignment. Fake claims already provided for all non-town players. Referencing game-related interactions with the mod outside of your own Role PM and/or action results is an offense punished by a modkill, regardless of whether it's true or fake.

Also, info available about your own flavor with links to another site (imdb) for reference. HOWEVER, knowledge of any flavor is NOT necessary and will have no bearing on the game at all. (That's me saying there will be no Flavor Cops and the flavor cannot be gamed anyway).

I and others have referenced many game-related mod comments in many games I’ve been in, so am I missing something specific here?

~Nancy

[RightKnight]

Just so you all know it, the next Overkill will have tweaks to many aspects. No 2 role PMs will be exactly the same regardless of role/alignment. Fake claims already provided for all non-town players. Referencing game-related interactions with the mod outside of your own Role PM and/or action results is an offense punished by a modkill, regardless of whether it's true or fake.

Also, info available about your own flavor with links to another site (imdb) for reference. HOWEVER, knowledge of any flavor is NOT necessary and will have no bearing on the game at all. (That's me saying there will be no Flavor Cops and the flavor cannot be gamed anyway).

What will the theme be?

Hopefully either something Sci-Fi or comedic?

[RightKnight]

And with how many movies he made, fake claims were easier than the real ones.

Donald Trump would be the ultimate fake claim.

~Nancy

[Almost50]

I and others have referenced many game-related mod comments in many games I’ve been in, so am I missing something specific here?

I dunno what you mean. Are you talking about THIS game (Serenity) or the upcoming one (Stallone)?

[Almost50]

And with how many movies he made, fake claims were easier than the real ones.

Donald Trump would be the ultimate fake claim.

~Nancy

That would be an explicit SCUM claim to half the players though.

[RightKnight]

I and others have referenced many game-related mod comments in many games I’ve been in, so am I missing something specific here?

I dunno what you mean. Are you talking about THIS game (Serenity) or the upcoming one (Stallone)?

I’m just wanting clarity on this because I’ve done it and seen it done many many times, so why would that result in a modkill?

But yes, please explain it wrt both games then, because I’m confused.

[Almost50]

TPFKAP personal PT

Nancy & friends hydra PT

HoB PT

Masons PT

Reasonably Rational hydra PT

Dead Thread

[Almost50]

I’m just wanting clarity on this because I’ve done it and seen it done many many times, so why would that result in a modkill?

But yes, please explain it wrt both games then, because I’m confused.

In short, you can't say "I was chatting with the mod and was able to deduce so and so" like EJ did. You can discuss your own role/flavor (true or fake) and you can discuss your own ability results (true or fake).

This is to avoid being put in a situation where I would have to lie to cover up for your own mistakes. Like, if I was asked if the Doctor version I use is the standard (1 kill heal) or the variant.. I wouldn't know how to answer that w.o. either calling EJ a liar or lying to you myself. Also, EJ said he deduced that there was one scum left from my chat with him, when -in fact- I was hinting he got shot more than any other slot (when I said it was funny the Town wants to lynch him NOW). I concede it's still MY mistake, but I am learning from my mistakes. The Mod should not intervene in the game nor should they be made to look like they are intervening.

[RightKnight]

Oh okay, I was referring to something quite different.

~N

[Almost50]

Well, if you like to ask about something else you can do it here or via PM.

[Cerberus v666]

I figured. So they knew there were actions on Chickadee, and I claimed an action on Chickadee. Something should have made them stop, but really, I'm not surprised they didn't. It was obvious from the moment they voted that they were super tunneled. The problem with accounts that say they are super logical or are going to use reason to solve the game is that they rarely do. They're the ones most likely to fall into a tunnel or get super emotional, and the fact of that matter is that what they tout as reason or logic doesn't matter in mafia. I used to be all about picking apart arguments and finding inconsistencies. I'd state that I'd "logic you to death". And during that time, I was a horrific scum hunter. I still am when I let my emotions get the better of me and don't take a step back. That's exactly what I want to breed when I play scum. I want you to argue and get emotional until no one pays attention to you. The key actually does fall down to motivation and intent. Why did that player do X? What do they have to gain? Etc.etc.etc. It's actually a lot easier to do this when you're not involved in the game, tbh, but it can still be done. I mean, I probably should have noticed Thor putting a lot of weight on page 1 posts. That's normally a bad argument, and Thor knows that. The fact that we had a blue moon situation here doesn't change the fact that early game posts rarely mean anything, and cases that rely on those posts are half-baked. The thing was, I really wasn't paying much attention to Thor enough to try to sort him. He made a Nacho-scum type of move, and I really wasn't caring. I mean, I could have approached pretty much everything differently, but that's the thing about hindsight.

Tails: We didn't stop pushing you was because of both the super damning flavor cop result and crumb, as well as the fact that no deaths at all meant that there was another protective around. With Jayne gone, BG didn't make sense for *anyone* except arguably Simon, and if there were another protective in the game(as there clearly was because there were no deaths) then they were more likely to be Simon than you, which meant your claim simply didn't work with the game state. Our check on Chickadee was far more interested in whether or not she performed an action(because if she had, she was clearly lying scum), and not whether or not an action came to her(because if one didn't, it wouldn't be a guilty on you or anyone else; you'd just claim to have protected someone else). Your play was actually town enough( from my perspective, Drixx didn't like your entrance), but your claim didn't work with the game state.

[Cerberus v666]

Also...just another note: You mention that motivation and intent is what's most important. That's something we agree on. Approaching the game rationally doesn't mean disregarding the intent behind actions; it means that you look at the game searching for what choice a rational actor with town vs scum win conditions would make, and decide if the actions taken by other individuals in the circumstances that exist make the most sense for them as a rational actor with either alignment. You break down an individual slots play and claimed actions and assign weights to each piece of evidence for or against them as town/scum, put it all together, and figure out which side of the scale things have tipped towards.

[Almost50]

@Cerb: What I've noticed is you do approach the game rationally, but then you get paranoid and have over-complicated assumptions. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, you know. In other words, sometimes if it looks to be good to be true it still is and you're just lucky!

[Toogeloo]

Just .. |A Blood-Thirsty Sylvester Stallone" themed game. Characters Mr Stallone played in his long career. You all get to be Sylvester.

[Elsa Jay]

I’m just wanting clarity on this because I’ve done it and seen it done many many times, so why would that result in a modkill?

But yes, please explain it wrt both games then, because I’m confused.

In short, you can't say "I was chatting with the mod and was able to deduce so and so" like EJ did. You can discuss your own role/flavor (true or fake) and you can discuss your own ability results (true or fake).

This is to avoid being put in a situation where I would have to lie to cover up for your own mistakes. Like, if I was asked if the Doctor version I use is the standard (1 kill heal) or the variant.. I wouldn't know how to answer that w.o. either calling EJ a liar or lying to you myself. Also, EJ said he deduced that there was one scum left from my chat with him, when -in fact- I was hinting he got shot more than any other slot (when I said it was funny the Town wants to lynch him NOW). I concede it's still MY mistake, but I am learning from my mistakes. The Mod should not intervene in the game nor should they be made to look like they are intervening.

So you told me about the color red and my magical deduction skills said you were talking about blue.

How the fuck did I figure out there was 1 scum in that roundabout way? I thought I was Higgins so my son would he town. I came to the right conclusion for literally the wrong reasons.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerb: What I've noticed is you do approach the game rationally, but then you get paranoid and have over-complicated assumptions. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, you know. In other words, sometimes if it looks to be good to be true it still is and you're just lucky!

Yes. You are completely correct. We figure out the most likely scenarios, but then come up with this ridiculous list of less probable, but must still be considered, possibilities...probably because we keep NOT QUITE WINNING because we forget about some small thing. :-/ That's definitely something we need to get over, but it's difficult to just...accept things are how they appear. We're not *that* good at the game, so it feels more likely that we made a mistake than we got everything right. *shrug*

[Almost50]

Oh, and to ALL: How the hell did you guys think HoB might've killed Thor when he was found with a pierce through the heart? HoB flipped with their flavor saying they kill with a sonic device that induces blood from every orifice.

[RightKnight]

Oh, and to ALL: How the hell did you guys think HoB might've killed Thor when he was found with a pierce through the heart? HoB flipped with their flavor saying they kill with a sonic device that induces blood from every orifice.

Not to ALL, obviously.

~N

[Jingle]

Just .. |A Blood-Thirsty Sylvester Stallone" themed game. Characters Mr Stallone played in his long career. You all get to be Sylvester.

Dibs on the one where he's a cat that wants to eat a little bird.

[Jingle]

Oh, and to ALL: How the hell did you guys think HoB might've killed Thor when he was found with a pierce through the heart? HoB flipped with their flavor saying they kill with a sonic device that induces blood from every orifice.

I was pretty low effort after the thor flip, tbh.

[Jingle]

I kinda get that. I had a few early successes that immediately caused people to become a lot more paranoid about me, making my job harder. And you kinda saw that with Jingle, once he knew who I was. He knew that I could manipulate him as scum, and that was constantly playing in his mind. Heck, the whole reason why I started experimenting with alts was because I wanted to remove any associations from my main and see if players would treat me differently. I just blew it with this alt during my first game and accidentally outed myself.

Also, this alt was meant to be trolly and was a parody of Metal Sonic. So there's that. People are either going to like the persona or immediately dislike this account.

Kinda works backwards with me, tbh. I know I'm going to enjoy the game more with you in it, so I am reluctant to lynch you even though I knew you were probably just manipulating me.

[Aristophanes]

Happy Scumday btw A50

[BuJaber]

Happy Scumday btw A50

Happy scumday A50.

Ari, thanks for not venge killing me like some suggested. That was a pretty crucial point in the game considering people (mostly other townies) insisted on lynching you. You made the right choice despite the pressure.

[Tails]

I would also consider adding a rule in regards to how much of our role we are allowed to share.

Discussion about how roles were formatted played pretty predominantly during the game, so if you wanted to nip that in the bud, you could just simply add a rule that no discussion of role pms be allowed at all, and have the sample town role pm placed at the beginning, and that be the end of it.

Or have all town roles be formatted the same way to cut down on gaming the system. A sample town PM is provided in the OP as usual.

Like, if I was asked if the Doctor version I use is the standard (1 kill heal) or the variant.. I wouldn't know how to answer that w.o. either calling EJ a liar or lying to you myself.

Asking the mod clarifying questions, and then relaying those answers, should not be banned and punishable by a mod kill. If EJ didn't do the required homework before fake claiming, then that's their fault. You can either choose not to answer or answer truthfully. Don't punish the players that ask. That's just bastard.

I figured. So they knew there were actions on Chickadee, and I claimed an action on Chickadee. Something should have made them stop, but really, I'm not surprised they didn't. It was obvious from the moment they voted that they were super tunneled. The problem with accounts that say they are super logical or are going to use reason to solve the game is that they rarely do. They're the ones most likely to fall into a tunnel or get super emotional, and the fact of that matter is that what they tout as reason or logic doesn't matter in mafia. I used to be all about picking apart arguments and finding inconsistencies. I'd state that I'd "logic you to death". And during that time, I was a horrific scum hunter. I still am when I let my emotions get the better of me and don't take a step back. That's exactly what I want to breed when I play scum. I want you to argue and get emotional until no one pays attention to you. The key actually does fall down to motivation and intent. Why did that player do X? What do they have to gain? Etc.etc.etc. It's actually a lot easier to do this when you're not involved in the game, tbh, but it can still be done. I mean, I probably should have noticed Thor putting a lot of weight on page 1 posts. That's normally a bad argument, and Thor knows that. The fact that we had a blue moon situation here doesn't change the fact that early game posts rarely mean anything, and cases that rely on those posts are half-baked. The thing was, I really wasn't paying much attention to Thor enough to try to sort him. He made a Nacho-scum type of move, and I really wasn't caring. I mean, I could have approached pretty much everything differently, but that's the thing about hindsight.

Tails: We didn't stop pushing you was because of both the super damning flavor cop result and crumb, as well as the fact that no deaths at all meant that there was another protective around. With Jayne gone, BG didn't make sense for *anyone* except arguably Simon, and if there were another protective in the game(as there clearly was because there were no deaths) then they were more likely to be Simon than you, which meant your claim simply didn't work with the game state. Our check on Chickadee was far more interested in whether or not she performed an action(because if she had, she was clearly lying scum), and not whether or not an action came to her(because if one didn't, it wouldn't be a guilty on you or anyone else; you'd just claim to have protected someone else). Your play was actually town enough( from my perspective, Drixx didn't like your entrance), but your claim didn't work with the game state.

*cough*Jailkeeper*cough*. Yes, I know that was my actual role, but if you want to talk about how you couldn't believe a fake claim because there were missing kills, missing kills that can easily be explained by a role that blocks all kills on a target, then your math is still wrong, even if you are getting the right answer.