Mafiascum.net

Korlash wrote:We could force the mod to give us an extension by accusing him of favoring scum. However that could have the downsides of game abandonment or modkills. Technically the 24 hour rule combined with a no extension policy is favoring scum as it gives them a chance to make it impossible for town to be able to lynch, which... ever since the first game of mafia has been town's only real weapon.

No.

Korlash wrote:However the mod could also argue the rules were common knowledge and so if the town allowed itself to get into a situation like this it's our own fault... In which case all we can do is bitch and moan...

Yes.

Korlash wrote:

Gorrad wrote:Gods, I'd be doing this even if I wasn't #2. He's trying to go against majority decision to save his own hide, and I'm trying to stop that. How in the nine rings does that make ME scummy?

Holy crap he has the God's on his side... Quick! Someone call Thor, I have him on speed dial. He should be able to clear this up...

What makes you scummy is an overthrow attempt being made without even knowing who the dictator was. This has countless reasons attached to it. I mean for all you knew you were overthrowing SG, in addition you also gave room for me, jazz, and look at that Orange to take the seat with a higher %. AND this close to deadline means that once someone becomes the new dictator the odds of keepign it are nearly... whats the word... right is it 100? 100 right? Yeah, pretty high odds.

So you gave room for scum to take it, at a time where scum would keep it, and you had no idea who the dictator even was when you ovrthrew... Impatience and anti-town behavior... Does that answer your question?

Psh, Loki'll kick Thor's ass.

And yes, I did overthrow without waiting. I was afraid that, should I wait to see if the overthrow was successful, it would be too late. I thought that I might not get to the computer before 24 hours before deadline, and therefore make it too late for an overthrow. I didn't know I would get sick and take today off.

As for giving scum room to take it, how is that scummy? Stupid townie I could see, but for me as scum, that makes no sense.

Gorrad wrote: As for giving scum room to take it, how is that scummy? Stupid townie I could see, but for me as scum, that makes no sense.

...

Did you just offer up a "I'm too dumb to be scum" defense?

Moratorium wrote:

Gorrad wrote: As for giving scum room to take it, how is that scummy? Stupid townie I could see, but for me as scum, that makes no sense.

...

Did you just offer up a "I'm too dumb to be scum" defense?

Hmm, I actually like the argument. With a 70% chance of becoming dictator, you wouldnt care much about a overthrow chance increase, you'd go for becoming dictator since the odds are already so high.

Assuming he is scum, and there was another mafia member out there, either gorrad or the second mafia-member would have likely succeeded at 70% odds aswell.
Overhtrowing just to raise the odds seems weird, unless he was sure his overthrow wasnt suspicious (which it obviously is) and his scum-buddy would be unlikely to be overthrown (which would point to korlash. Jazz and orange are both overthrow material, and I really don't think korlash is scum).

This doesnt mean he isnt scum though, its just that overthrowing JUST to raise the odds would be a very strange scum move.

SiestaGuru wrote:This doesnt mean he isnt scum though, its just that overthrowing JUST to raise the odds would be a very strange scum move.

Not really. Scum can overthrow early to either cause this cascade of overthrows or just for the hell of it and give their partners better chances later in the day.

Also, are you saying OP should be overthrown?

CarnCarn wrote:

SiestaGuru wrote:This doesnt mean he isnt scum though, its just that overthrowing JUST to raise the odds would be a very strange scum move.

Not really. Scum can overthrow early to either cause this cascade of overthrows or just for the hell of it and give their partners better chances later in the day.

Sure, but its completely unnecessary at these odds, and because of his suspiciousness already, it would be a very strange move.

Also, are you saying OP should be overthrown?

If there would be more time left, yes. By jazzmyn to be exact, so he could be overthrown by korlash later on (with 100% odds). But since were dealing with a approaching deadline and strange 24 hour limits it might be better to keep OP as our dictator. Id rather have him as jazz.

Gorrad wrote:As for giving scum room to take it, how is that scummy? Stupid townie I could see, but for me as scum, that makes no sense.

Do you honestly want me to make hypotheticals? You could be scum hoping your overthrow would stick and it would be too late for someone else to overthrow you, or your partner could be amoung me, Jazz, and Orange.

Carn wrote:Not really. Scum can overthrow early to either cause this cascade of overthrows or just for the hell of it and give their partners better chances later in the day.

scum could Refuse to overthrow in order to "appear more town" or could become a dictator and push the "I'll execute based on majority" spiel... Scum Could also hold their overthrow until they are the last one and then have be in the position to ovethrow if asked or not to look town.

Point is scum could do just about anything.

Korlash wrote:Point is scum could do just about anything.

Exactly. That's why it's not strange.

Okay, Gorrad has said twice that someone who knows they are town should "accept" being executed, and that a townie execution is better than "chaos". If this isn't scummy I don't know what is.

MonkeyMan576 wrote:Okay, Gorrad has said twice that someone who knows they are town should "accept" being executed, and that a townie execution is better than "chaos". If this isn't scummy I don't know what is.

A town execution might in some cases be acceptable, since it is at the moment of executing uncertain if this player really is a townie. Besides, the one who gets executed is the one who is suspected the most, so you might just end up executing the same player next round. Which is just wasting time. Executing a townie now, could also offer great insights in who is scum, and who isnt, which might actually be more usefull then the townie being alive.
So im someone who always goes for a execution, no matter how uncertain you are. The odds of catching a maffia if executing the most suspicious one or it being usefull in some other way are just too good to ignore (by going for a no-execution).

I do agree on your execution acception point though. For both town and scum it would obviously be wise to do everything to stop getting executed (town because it wastes a execution, and scum because they need all the members). This is as true for townys, as it is for scum. So I cant really see much of a difference between them here. A towny might be more inclined to try reasoning before overthrowing, but well you tried it, and you were at 4 votes when overthrowing.. Which would cause your death if I would come online. So thats not a bad time to take your chances.

monkeyman (4): siesta, gorrad, moratoriam. carncarn
gorrad(3): jebus, monkeyman, korlash

Not voting: Jazz

Here is the current "vote count". If your vote changed or something, please say something. Not sure if MM and Gorrad's votes should even count, since they would naturally vote for the opposing player. Of course, there are other players they could technically vote for if they wanted to, so if they did, they can.

So it appears that I am dictator. I will be executing the person with the most "support", going back to Siesta's original plan, which I felt was pretty much the fairest way for town to control the dictatorship.

Why not count them? They add one to each other... meaning they cancel each other out...

What I am saying is that with or without them, the vote count is basically the same. But I am keeping them, just cuz it doesn't really matter, and it lets them have a say, even though it does cancel them out.

The town should be aware that three of the four votes are, siesta, who I tried to overthrow, and Gorram and CarnCarn, who I see as the two scummiest right now. So other players, especially Moratorium, I ask you to strongly reconsider your vote.

You want me to reconsider my vote on Gorrad?

I don't think you mean "other players, especially Moratorium" I think you mean "just Moratorium"...

Also @ Orange, just becuase you're the dictator doesn't mean you don't have a say in it also. Last I checked you're still a part of this town, so might as well put your feelings on that score board as well...

Korlash wrote:You want me to reconsider my vote on Gorrad?

I don't think you mean "other players, especially Moratorium" I think you mean "just Moratorium"...

Also @ Orange, just becuase you're the dictator doesn't mean you don't have a say in it also. Last I checked you're still a part of this town, so might as well put your feelings on that score board as well...

I'm not afraid of anyone reconsidering their votes, I think that the more people consider the situation reasonably, the more people will see that Gorrad is the proper execution here.

What do you consider reasonably, and how have we not been doing that so far?

I mean I've stated my case, and yet more people vote for me, despite Gorrad's obvious logical fallacies. No, I don't think there's been a lot of reasonable thinking recently.

MM, summarize your case.

Gorran thinks I should "accept" being executed, rather than trying to convince people of my innocence. The only reason I can conceive of that he would think that, is because he knows I am innocent, and he is scum. If he was pro-town, he would consider any and all arguments. Information and discussion is good for the town.

I don't say you shouldn't try and prove innocence, I just say you shouldn't throw the town into disarray trying a last-ditch attempt to save your own skin.

Gorrad wrote:I don't say you shouldn't try and prove innocence, I just say you shouldn't throw the town into disarray trying a last-ditch attempt to save your own skin.

Why shouldn't I try and "save my skin" if I'm town? Don't you think town should live and scum should die?

Monkey wrote:I mean I've stated my case, and yet more people vote for me, despite Gorrad's obvious logical fallacies. No, I don't think there's been a lot of reasonable thinking recently.

No you haven't... You've posted a lot but you hardly took the time to compile a case.

Monkey wrote:Gorran thinks I should "accept" being executed, rather than trying to convince people of my innocence. The only reason I can conceive of that he would think that, is because he knows I am innocent, and he is scum. If he was pro-town, he would consider any and all arguments. Information and discussion is good for the town.

This is your case? My god, how have people been ignoring Gorrad for so long! *gasp*

Can you at least point out where he did this?

gorrad wrote:I don't say you shouldn't try and prove innocence, I just say you shouldn't throw the town into disarray trying a last-ditch attempt to save your own skin.

Where did he do this?

Korlash wrote:This is your case? My god, how have people been ignoring Gorrad for so long! *gasp*

Can you at least point out where he did this?

459 and 495.

Korlash wrote:

gorrad wrote:I don't say you shouldn't try and prove innocence, I just say you shouldn't throw the town into disarray trying a last-ditch attempt to save your own skin.

Where did he do this?

The overthrow. Without it, none of this 24-hour BS would have happened, nor none of the multiple-overthrow WIFOM.