Mini 1398 - Game Over!

[jmo16mla]

The most recent and only scum game is the one Jabb posted.
The most recent town completed was is my first, BANANARAMA.

Vote Count #19

jmo16mla (2) - iamausername, Rob13
Cheery Dog (1) - Bacde
Rob13 (1) - Cheery Dog
Melmond (1) - Jabberwock
absta101 (1) - Nachomamma8

Not Voting (5) - Melmond, Mirhawk, absta101, jmo16mla. ICEninja

Deadline is in: (expired on 2013-01-01 16:30:00)

11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Bacde]

Note jmo's signature. I think it applies here

[Rob14]

JMO's Town Game: Link

JMO's Scum Game: Link

For those interested. I'll look at them before I post my case on you.

[ICEninja]

Since Bacde knows he's going down it seems like it would be too risky to vote a scum buddy. I haven't ruled out the possibility of Cheery scum based on Bacde's vote, but I'm conflicted as it is.

It could be distancing, but busing would be bad stuffs right now.

In regards to this:

Even though the only time we have voted/lynched the same person, they were scum?

Rob covered this thoroughly.

[Bacde]

Vote: ICENinja

Since I know I'm going down? Your post feels scummy as balls to me. Remind me again why I'm confirmed scum, or are you just going to refer to other people's cases? I'm beginning to think its not genuine town-fear thats motivating you, but instead a desire to appear you are really town and you really have this strong scumread on me.

[Melmond]

Was I? (mini 1368 right?) I abandoned my day 1 approach after I was put to L-1 and nothing was happening in that game. Are you saying I should be going out hard against a random vote's reasoning as a reaction test? (because I'm never doing that again, it just fails epically every time, and I've seen other people do the same thing and have the same thing happen to them)

Yes, that's the game I was talking about, and thats not what I'm saying, it's just that it's a complete turnaround from that game up until your post 453. You didn't seem to wanted to say anything about the more popular cases, such as shamrock or bacde.

I'll make a better post later, need to catch up, lot happened since my last post.

[Rob14]

Vote: ICENinja

Since I know I'm going down? Your post feels scummy as balls to me. Remind me again why I'm confirmed scum, or are you just going to refer to other people's cases? I'm beginning to think its not genuine town-fear thats motivating you, but instead a desire to appear you are really town and you really have this strong scumread on me.

You either die by NK or die by lynch. You will not live to LyLo. This has been well-established.

[Bacde]

Rob, what do you think of ICENinja's assumption that I am scum, and also his unvote when I was voting for the same person as him?

[Rob14]

Rob, what do you think of ICENinja's assumption that I am scum, and also his unvote when I was voting for the same person as him?

I don't particularly like it, personally, but I don't think it's scum motivated. His sequence of posts this day that led to him unvoting you seemed very genuine and like they came from town, in my opinion. He shouldn't be adjusting his scum reads with the assumption that you're scum, though. If he's later proved wrong, then he'd have nothing left.

[Bacde]

Rob is town.

[Rob14]

What was your opinion of Ice's early posts today, Bacde? i.e. When he was gradually moving off of you.

[Rob14]

Also, writing up my thoughts on JMO now.

[Bacde]

I don't know. At the time, ICENinja seemed town to me for most of today, but now when I'm rereading I don't like his posts at all. I don't like how he fossed jabberwock for having a townread on him. Something seems less genuine about him now that I'm rereading him. Obviously my vote speaks louder for my opinion than my words do.

Also he had a post where he says "wouldnt it be crazy if scum was nacho/bacde/shamrock" which strikes me as odd and conspiracy theory, which tend to be more antitown posts.

I placed a vote on him early in the game and now I'm revisiting my reasons why.

[Bacde]

Rob, what is your read on iamausername? I have an early vote on him too.

[Rob14]

Vote: JMO

OMGUS votes this early on, hmm?

Lmao, I saw someone had voted me, but I didn't care. I just went picked out a name in the list. How does that happen?! XD

This post seemed off to me. This is entirely a gut read, but it's what first got me looking at JMO. The reaction was just - too much. Smilie, the question mark AND an exclamation point. Just seemed excessive response to a simple observation that he had voted the person that voted him in RVS.

I honestly didn't know it was him that was voting me. Like I said I was wasted off my ass(I should probably stop playing drunk) and voted someone. It's not obscum. I don't see how it could be. It's just a vote, and it seems like you're the one taking it too far. Is it you that's overly defensive because I happened to vote you back, unintentionally might I add.

This struck me as OMGUS-y. He's pushing back on Disturbed just because Disturbed is pressuring him.

To make my vote random, I seriously just looked at the list and picked someone. I'm sorry your name stood out. OMGUS vote does not mean obvscum. But it wasn't even an OMGUS vote.
Now lets actually scum hunt with reason. Not on a random vote.

This struck me as "caught for the wrong reasons." The apology also seems off to me. Why say that he was sorry? This just didn't sit right with me at all.

Disturbed one. You keep thinking that. I did no back tracking. It wasn't an OMGUS vote.

-snip-

He's straw-manning disturbed. Disturbed's post #44 made it clear that he found the reaction scummy, not the vote. JMO misrepresented Disturbed's argument to defeat it.

1.I'm not sure what would have happened if I wasn't drunk. But

I probably would have made sure I wasn't voting the guy that was already voting for me.

3. I didn't lie about it. Being drunk doesn't make it look worse. Like I said, I voted randomly. If I hadn't been drunk

I would have made sure that I wouldn't have voted disturbed one because he was already voting me

and I know people regard that as a scum tell/newb move. Simple.

I find it scummy that he was so concerned about the scum-tells he was giving off, but others have disagreed with that. I still think it's a fair point. Scum is, as a rule, more concerned about the perception that town has of them than townies. Town wants to find scum; appearing town-like is secondary to that. Scum wants to appear town-like; finding "scum" (which would actually mean creating opportunities for mislynches) is second to that. I think that a post like this that shows how much JMO is concerned about his appearance in combination with his total lack of scum-hunting (he hasn't done anything other than defend his original vote so far) makes for a scum-tell.

Post #65 is the first time JMO addresses anything other than the case on him. This is his 14th post. That's not town-motivated.

So you doctored that quote. Meaning you set it up specifically for you to lie.
Find the post number.

This was in response to a paraphrase by Disturbed. Equating paraphrasing to doctoring a quote and lieing is flat out wrong.

Disturbed's reasons for voting ICENinja are really bad.

Abasta, are you egging Disturbed and Jmo on? Because it looks that way from over here.

What is the point of this question?

Shamrock comes into the game and puts pressure on Disturbed for voting Ice. Disturbed has also been pressuring JMO all game. I find it interesting that that's the only person Shamrock feels like commenting on. Interesting "coincidence".

Bahahahaha.

I suggest if you want that vote to hold any water that you reference the game and post in which that happened.

I want a list for the same reason I wanted a list from Bacde. You're a scum suspect.

Unvote: Bacde
Vote: Shamrock

Post your reads, sir. I have no problem lynching you before we lynch Bacde.

Oh shit. An OMGUS vote?!?!? *gasps* lmao

Still pre-occupied by the original case on him from page 1 all the way at page 11. Why is he still so hung up on this if he's town? Still hasn't really pressured anyone except Disturbed (which I think was OMGUS), and hasn't identified anyone as a scum-read. Vote is still on Disturbed from RVS. Where is the scum-hunting?

I find that nacho getting off the wagon quite fishy also..
But. He has played enough games on site to know that people would suspect him about it. I'm pretty sure he's town. Why would he as scum do it like that if he knows it would attract attention?

Dat WIFOM. He's new enough that this is a null tell, but I think it's worth mention.

this is an excellent catch and i can't believe i didn't notice this myself.

I feel like this is a fabricated reaction.

And also rob, your case against me about voting, tell me you have NEVER in RVS, even as town, tried to not vote someone who was already voted. Same theory.

Missed this earlier, so I'll respond to it here. No, I never have. I did it once as scum out of the one scum game I played on this site.

#452 was notable in that it was the first time I saw him actually look like he was scum-hunting. He gave few conclusions and no solid scum reads, however.

I responded to post #459 earlier. I'll put it here so everything's in one place, though.

No. Omg. Fuck. I don't see OMGUS as a scum tell. Meaning IIIIIIII, ME don't see OMGUS as a scum tell. SOME people DO. This is why it wouldn't be recommended.

As in. If someone OMGUS'd me, I wouldn't say "oh shit, you're scum!" Now, someone else may have a different opinion of their OMGUS vote. Got it?

Keep trying to force your story that has no backing onto people.

1. Overly defensive to the opinion of one person on a post that others have not thought was a scum tell.

2. The whole post, but especially the first line, reads to me as "caught for the wrong reasons."

3. You have time to read the thread and respond to criticisms of you, but not to contribute at all or scum-hunt. You're obviously following the thread closely (as evidenced by the fact that you responded to me four minutes after I posted and to iam only 3.5 hours after he posted). So where are your reads? Where is the content? What are you contributing?

Now, beyond all of this, add in all the weird interactions between Bacde and JMO. This is why I have a scum read on JMO. I'd be interested in hearing the reasons behind the town reads that a lot of people have on him.

[Rob14]

My read on iam is null. He's done some things I like and some things I don't, and I'm also worried I'll misread him because some people have suggested he's a bit out of the ordinary as town, and I don't have any background on how he plays.

[Bacde]

Your case isn't horrible, but I'm not buying it. For example, jmo being upset with disturbed at page 11 for the initial p1 OMGUS vote case seems town to me, instead of scum. I get more hung-up on calls that I perceive as bad when I'm town.

Also, your case against jmo hinges on the idea that I'm scum and interacting with jmo in a scum manner, so I'm inherently inclined to disagree with your reasoning.

[Rob14]

Also, your case against jmo hinges on the idea that I'm scum and interacting with jmo in a scum manner, so I'm inherently inclined to disagree with your reasoning.

No, it doesn't. That contributes to it a bit, but I would have a scum read on him even if you flipped town.

[Rob14]

If JMO can show me an instance of him getting as hung up about a case on him as he did in this game from any completed town game of his, then I will drop my scum read of him. I still need to look in his meta.

[Rob14]

I read JMO's town game. Well, kind of. More of a skim really. No one has time for that shit. Here's a few conclusions.

1. He scum-hunted more and earlier. This was a clear difference between this game and that game. He participated more in scum-hunting. I can provide examples if you want me to.

2. He

did

get stuck on some of the cases against him. This was a similarity, and it makes some of my case obsolete. However, he never completely abandoned scum-hunting to defend himself like he did in this game.

I read his scum game, if you can even call it a game. Not even two pages. I'll link the scum QT that JMO was in, though. It's comedy gold if anyone wants a quick laugh. But yeah, unfortunately I can't compare this game to his scum meta.

[jmo16mla]

1. I already stated I was busy as hell with exams. College > mafia. That's life. I made everyone aware of the fact.

2. Because I pretty much OMGUS voted her back. And yes, that was all I posted about for probably 20 posts.

[ICEninja]

I don't feel terribly convinced by Rob's case. It's not bad, but I feel like a lot of it points to frustrated town just as much to scum. Some points have merit, but not enough to put a vote on him.

[Mirhawk]

Personally I don't much like Rob's case. I get the feeling that he was looking at jmo's posts with the belief in mind that anything he said was scummy. It's not that hard to make a big wall of "scummy" interactions from any player if you look close enough.

This is why I don't like his opening summery of the game. It has that same vibe with regards to bacde and jmo.

[Cheery Dog]

In 456 Rob13 wrote stuff
I'm not going to actually quote that whole post as it explains the information well.
I now understand that Rob read through the pages much like I did and followed people's opinions without analysing every post individually.

As mentioned by everyone else, that jmo case is full of confirmation bias.

[ICEninja]

I read stuff and agree with people.