Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Zachrulez]

Zach: when did you decide I am Town?

Where do you get that conclusion?

[MattP]

I am not going to elaborate on my claim reasoning

Pedit: I showed explicit reasoning for my ffery vote when I revoted her

If that's not enough then I have no idea how you scum hunt

[fferyllt]

Put your vote back on me. maybe you can save your scumbuddy.

If you feel this way certainly it makes sense to be voting for one of the two, like right now.

I won't be chivvied into voting before I'm ready to vote.

I bring it up because I'm having trouble understanding your mindset. You're arguing from a position of apparent certainty not only in a scumread, but a pairing, but you don't have a vote to back it up. I don't understand that.

I made that comment mostly to draw a reaction. I am not displeased with the ensuing storm tbh. I do have a scum read on Antagon's slot. Matt just confuses me. I thought he looked more townish for it last night. Tierce's comments make sense. But, I dunno. I feel like I should trust my own read.

If I'm wrong about Matt and I put Antagon at L-1, then what do you expect Matt will do?

[MattP]

No tierce, I'm saying I forgot how to READ scum, not that I forgot how to PUSH scum so when I draw town again and again and again I already know my play will be bad and go in feeling discouraged

[MattP]

And you're acting like me pushing ffery with little reason doesn't work coming out of rvs but I do that all the time in town games and it does work

[Katsuki]

So, why are we lynching matt before whimsy now?

If anything, order should be whimsy, and instamattPlynch given whimsy scumflip.

I would expect a playerbase like this to see through the purpose behind matts actions...

[Katsuki]

Also I'll be busy over the next few days what with graduations and etc.

[Zachrulez]

Put your vote back on me. maybe you can save your scumbuddy.

If you feel this way certainly it makes sense to be voting for one of the two, like right now.

I won't be chivvied into voting before I'm ready to vote.

I bring it up because I'm having trouble understanding your mindset. You're arguing from a position of apparent certainty not only in a scumread, but a pairing, but you don't have a vote to back it up. I don't understand that.

I made that comment mostly to draw a reaction. I am not displeased with the ensuing storm tbh. I do have a scum read on Antagon's slot. Matt just confuses me. I thought he looked more townish for it last night. Tierce's comments make sense. But, I dunno. I feel like I should trust my own read.

If I'm wrong about Matt and I put Antagon at L-1, then what do you expect Matt will do?

Oh, I took it at face value. Silly me.

[Tierce]

Zach: when did you decide I am Town?

Where do you get that conclusion?

The way you've been treating me.

Matt--you're still trying to antagonize me when I'm doing everything in my power to try and understand your PoV. If you're Town, stop being antagonistic and work with me, I've shown plenty of interest to try and figure you out and you keep dodging. Can you point me to the reasoning behind the claim and the reasoning behind the fferyllt vote, then? I don't see them. And what was your reasoning for the Antagon vote?

Pushing her with little reasoning here didn't work, and so you decided to troll instead in a way that was not conducive to scumhunting and getting quick solid scumreads. I still don't get the Town logic behind that plan, or the Town logic to claim in this game with the Apocalypse mechanic. It's bothering me a lot, because it couldn't be plainer that I am trying to understand where you're coming from, but you refuse to cooperate under a guise of anger. If this is a pattern you've noticed in your Towngames, I'd expect you to be taking some sort of action to compensate, but what I see is you getting more antagonistic and refusing to contribute when I'm RIGHT HERE asking you to help me understand you. Please.

[Zachrulez]

Zach: when did you decide I am Town?

Where do you get that conclusion?

The way you've been treating me.

Been starting to lean that way, I guess my posting perhaps is betraying that.

Still something eating at me about you though. See 473.

[MattP]

I'll make a long post when I get home tierce

As for the claim I would prefer to not continue discussing it. You don't need to currently understand my pov with that.

[Tierce]

Oh and Tierce, how reliably do you think you're able to read me based on meta? The answer to this is important to me.

Not much. My main thing on you was when you clearly jumped from being interested in just one thing or two to having a more spread focus, which matched with your schedule opening up. I liked it, and I like how promptly it happened, without a lot of fuss about that in specific. You began participating more when I pushed you, and THEN had that. I like that they don't match exactly in time, feels natural as Town response to pressure + Town response to more time to put into the game.

On meta, not really a lot. The only game I had with you when we were both Town was YOLOville, and I didn't have to worry much since you were confTown after a bit. My doubts are mostly based on Sottynoia, so you can thank her for it. >.>

[Zachrulez]

Oh and Tierce, how reliably do you think you're able to read me based on meta? The answer to this is important to me.

Not much. My main thing on you was when you clearly jumped from being interested in just one thing or two to having a more spread focus, which matched with your schedule opening up. I liked it, and I like how promptly it happened, without a lot of fuss about that in specific. You began participating more when I pushed you, and THEN had that. I like that they don't match exactly in time, feels natural as Town response to pressure + Town response to more time to put into the game.

On meta, not really a lot. The only game I had with you when we were both Town was YOLOville, and I didn't have to worry much since you were confTown after a bit. My doubts are mostly based on Sottynoia, so you can thank her for it. >.>

I am not Sotty.

In mafia Sotty is the ultimate evil.

It's just that you expect me to meta you and be able to very clearly read you, but apparently of yourself don't expect the same thing of yourself when metaing people with similar metas. (:P) The question was important for me to pose because Sotty herself can clearly read me but the minute she draws scum she suddenly can't.

[Tierce]

I had three scum games in a row, Zach.

THREE.

If you think we have similar metas--well, that is my personal hell. Drawing scum again and again and again. True, I wasn't lynched (!) and somehow won all three, but still... Any look around the site will show you that I hate playing scum and that I have a poor opinion of my scum game. It's quite probably not all warranted, as I know I can plan well as scum, and I do know my scum game has been improving a bit as I learn to focus on my strengths. But it is still deeply unnatural for me, I still have very little confidence, and I think every scum game of mine outside CES's Doctor Who micro drips scum intent. Maybe it's me, because I know my own flaws--but there is a group of players who have little to no issue reading me (Regfan, Tammy, Empire), so I know it's not JUST me being aware of the differences in meta. My meta (and theirs, actually) being pretty easy to differentiate doesn't make other people's meta easy to differentiate. If only; that would make my life so much easier. But I do think I am obviously Town here, both from meta and from my play. I understand where your paranoia comes from (would have been bothered if there was no paranoia from you after Khan's 3p), but seriously. Even my best latest scum game (that Doctor Who micro) has glaring differences. And no, being aware of those differences doesn't mean I can easily incorporate them in my meta, I would have done so months ago if it were easy.

[Tierce]

Drawing scum actually makes it stupid easy to spot Towntells on people, at least for me. But it's usually not a good meta experience for the future, because you're not really trying to figure out those people's alignment and so your meta read will be all funky. I go on detail about this when reading Konowa on MoI's Dresden Files Mafia, in the Mason QT (it's posted on the thread). That's why my meta read on you sucks--there's Paranoia, YOLOville, the 3p... and I was scum in two of them and barely had to figure you out on the other one. Admittedly, I haven't really meta'd you further, because guess what, I was scum the last time we played together and was bullshitting my way through the game. Either way, you're not a priority.

[MattP]

Meta is dumb if a player has been on site for at least a year, people aren't machines and once they're confident enough to play scum without shitting themselves they will be temperamental and they will change from one game to another

[Tierce]

Actually not true. Go read more Empire games.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah I'm not saying I expect you to have a clear meta read on me Tierce, I was just curious as to what you felt your meta knowledge of me was, and lending some perspective that your expectations of my meta knowledge of you might be a little high, especially when compared to your expectations of your own meta knowledge. ^.^

[Zachrulez]

As far as Matt goes, I do understand the idea that drawing scum can help you catch scum because you have firsthand experience of what scum does, but I don't buy the argument because it's not the only tool in finding scum. There are many, and personal experience playing scum is only one of them.

[fferyllt]

If drawing scum frequently was key in scumhunting I'd be the worst town player on earth. I went through a 50 game streak once without a single scum role. Overall (not just at MS) I've had more 3rd party roles than town roles.

[fferyllt]

not town roles. scum roles. I've been town tons of times.

[hp [leaves]]

Null:
Everyone else (Haven't posted yet, etc.)

I think this list (I know it isn't exactly a list, but we still know who is in it) contains rest of the scum.

[Tierce]

hp, when do you pan on actually contributing to the game?

[Tierce]

Oh, English.

s/pan/plan

[hp [leaves]]

soon. MattP's absurd VT claim out of nowhere has confused me a bit. It almost feels like Mastin's troll advices are taking place everywhere and his general depression/unhelpfulness isn't helping at all.

It's almost worth pushing a policy lynch for him.