There's an element of historical votes to it. Crossed out names are people who used to be on that wagon
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:11 pm
by FourTrouble
↑Iecerint wrote:It has a pretty small effect on my read on him, though, because the fact that everyone begged him for it could easily account for it.
If he can easily replicate his normal meta, why would an intentional departure from that meta mean he's scum?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:12 pm
by FourTrouble
Pine, why do you suspect Iece?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:39 pm
by Pine
Lots of little things don't add up. It's half gut
The only really solid thing is his weird and forced reaction to my lolgambiting
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:51 pm
by FourTrouble
What's weird and forced about his reaction?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:53 pm
by Pine
It's nonspecific. It feels rushed, no genuine, like he's trying to think in circles. Like he's trying to solve the WIFOM of "how seriously do I have to take this to look Town"
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:38 pm
by Titus
Ok just skimmed Andrius's ISO. Why is he wagoned? Who is/was the counter wagon and why?
1. His early townread on me seemed a little strong to me (I can follow it, but it seemed stronger than I expected), so he was already kinda on my mind.
2. His motive in asking for my read on PeregrineV indirectly is really unclear, especially in light of an apparent townread on me. Why ask his townread in particular? Why ask it of his townread indirectly?
3a. His take on my post-Pine posts would seem pretty non-default given a town read of me, but makes some sense if it's a "following the crowd"-derived take on the situation.
3b. His take on the same posts would seem to imply that I was town anyway (this one could just be a logic error, but in light of the rest it starts to fit a pattern).
Farside had independent reasons I think, but she echoed point 2. It feels like ABR is kind of sheeping me (e.g., Pine after I appeared to be attacking him rhetorically, then this), which feels kinda unfamiliar, but I guess he's at least pretty non-prejudicial in who he follows me onto.
That's a fairly decent summation of the Andy wagon, even if I don't agree with it.
The other two real ones are Icy due to his reaction to Pine's gambit and ABR due to:
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:Take note, Iecerint and Nacho are historically some of my closest allies and favorite players, and Pine has quickly reached the same status in the few games I've been with him this year.
Buddying noted.
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:Votes you can depend on. Consistent posting schedule. Relatable point of view. You're good soldiers.
Buddying still noted.
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:Gentlemen, let's be reasonable. Voting for me for being complimentary and expressing my approval of you is like feeding your dog when he's begging for food while you're eating. You're not reinforcing the behavior you want to elicit here.
"Don't vote me, because then I'll never be nice to you again." This isn't a reasonable defense. This is an admission that he's playing differently from normal and a threat to get people to stop voting him. This is not a town reaction.
I was being facetious. Come now, let's vote out the southern gothic abomination.
Oh, it matters because you're going to drop the line of reasoning as soon as anything bad for you comes of it. If he actually thought Nacho being weird as town was relevant to the game, he wouldn't have dropped it so easily. If he actually thought it wasn't as town, why bring it up in the first place. He's scum.
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:pirate hydra looks somewhat like self-justified town.
Unvote, vote Pine
Hmmm. No reason, no rhyme, and a mediocre at best reason for mollie/tth town, that mitigates their reads. They're not town because they're doing town things or thinking town reasons, note, but just that they're "self-justified" which is just so much nonsense. But good try.
The signatures are annoying. I don't like them already.
You don't like us, so you ignore us. Not pressure us, not think we're scum. Did it occur to you we may have started our gimmick because it made people less likely to interact with us? (We didn't but it was a little bit helpful last game as scum.)
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm not a good scum player, you give me too much credit.
Sure you're not. But it's worth noting that your play this game has been less than stellar, so... Maybe you're right. Let's find out.
↑Iecerint wrote:From what I can tell, the main thing to glean from my interaction with Pine I think is that I am probably town if ABR is scum.
Vote: Iecerint
This is terrible.
And Pine, you fail.
I agree with one thing here, and that is that Icy's "I'm town if ABR is scum" statement is dumb. But you're still not voting the person who claimed a guilty on you.
Unvoting the player who is faking a guilty on you in order to hop on the leading wagon with no reasoning. Sure, I see the town motivation oozing out of that post. /sarcasm
↑Southern Gothic wrote:Also interested in why there's an Andrius wagon. I'll have to look into that.
There isn't much, besides who he thinks is town. I don't like those reads he's given, personally.
Someone asked why I voted! Damn, better give them an answer. Why did I vote him again? There weren't real reasons? Shit. Why is "His reads are bad" any more egregious than what any other player has done this game, to include myself.
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:You raise good points. I like this wagon more and more. I miss playing with you Iecerint
PM me if you sign up for another game, k?
And he's started in on the buddying again. God, if you've been anything this game, it's been consistent. I love how the reasons you voted andy came from someone else after you'd already explained that you didn't have any. Could you be any more scummy?
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:The half-baked attempts at shifting attention away from Andrius and to me are disappointing.
I'll have you know that your OMGUS and accusations are much less baked than me, as well as your premature defense.
All aboard the ABR train, next stop, scum lynch. Choo Choo!
PEDIT:
I expected the OMGUS to come after the case, not before it.
↑Iecerint wrote:It has a pretty small effect on my read on him, though, because the fact that everyone begged him for it could easily account for it.
If he can easily replicate his normal meta, why would an intentional departure from that meta mean he's scum?
And why does him bowing to pressure and intentionally acting erratic make him town?
You're gonna have to do better than that, Pine. Why is Icy town? His recent posts make a lot of sense to me.
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:12 pm
by All is Who
EBWOP: Why isn't Icy town?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:28 pm
by Pine
Don't care about recent posts. Being scum is about maintaining an act. Being Town is about noticing when they can't remember their lines
Remember, most scum look Town most of the time. For a veteran like Iecy that's doubly true
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:50 pm
by All is Who
:IGMEO:
Me and who are in agreement that Icy isn't the play today, and I doubt you're gonna convince us.
If we're gonna compromise off of ABR today, it's more likely to be onto 4Teen than anyone else.
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:51 pm
by All is Who
Also, you may have noticed I stopped signing. That is because I ran out of A name scummers I could think off of the top of my head., and I'm not quite ready to start on B.
↑Iecerint wrote:It has a pretty small effect on my read on him, though, because the fact that everyone begged him for it could easily account for it.
If he can easily replicate his normal meta, why would an intentional departure from that meta mean he's scum?
I never made that claim. I was the one who pointed out (to Pine I think) that different doesn't necessarily imply scum-aligned.
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:38 pm
by Iecerint
↑Titus wrote:Ok just skimmed Andrius's ISO. Why is he wagoned? Who is/was the counter wagon and why?
Read my posts and I think farside has a few.
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:40 pm
by Iecerint
Nvm Who did it for you
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:11 am
by VictorDeAngelo
Finally feeling well enough to play, will try to have a substantial post up later today.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:30 am
by VictorDeAngelo
I love it when games stop to wait for me, makes me feel important.
I'm not 100% yet but I think I keep upright enough to get going before this day ends.
BTW why do people feel the need to spoil flavour stuff? It's just annoying. I'm having to click to reveal a spoiler in like every post on page 1 and it's all ending up being irrelevant.
Spoiler:
ABR's early push on Southern Gothic on page 2 is the first thing that feels off. His push has that semi serious tone that scum seem to love.
112 - Konowa silently shifting votes here makes me feel uneasy.
135 - Now I really hate this, there's a clear distinction between discussing meta and having trust tells, and I think Konowa is trying to stop a meta discussion here before it bites him in the ass.
155 - Well look at that, another bad naked vote from ABR.
158 - And now he'd hate that the guy he just voted is scum. Yep, this is scum.
175 - I don't like the attack on Peregrine here at all.
All is who is confusing me, I'm lying down before tackling that hydra. ABR, Flames And Konowa all feel scummy, and no one feels particularly townie. I'm probably not going into work tomorrow, so assuming I get a good night's rest I should be able to catch up at home before the weekend with any luck.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:43 am
by Iecerint
If you don't like self-consciousness from me, you're gonna have a bad time.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:44 am
by Iecerint
I think Who gets easier to read in later posts FWIW.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:40 am
by farside22
Why I am scum reading Andy.
There are many post that are just posting to post. I don't see someone trying to figure players out.
That is the first.
The rest is things he has said in the game that do not match, for example.
pine wrote:
Pine only wasted our time. Iece's reaction was suspect. There are not enough people here. I am not supposed to be here.
With everything said it makes no sense why Iec's reaction is suspect and not ABR. ABR thought he was lying and then said who would he cop next. Are not both players suspect with all that Pine accomplished and how was it a waste of time?
FT wrote:This is a terrible reason to keep voting me.
Forgive me, I am not known for this voice - I am attempting to change, difficult as it is.
My vote stays.
AllisWho wrote:And Andy, you're invoking his beetlejuicing. Interesting.
Forgive me, I do not know what you mean. I am unfamiliar with Beetlejuice.
He is a player who has denied us reasoning for his first scum vote (curious) and is basing his lack of activity and explanations on V/LA, which is understandable but does not provide any insight into his alignment. Thus, I await his return and the chance to more accurately discern his motivations.
In my experience, Perv is a strong town player and has good reads, but his thread presence leaves something to be desired as both alignments.
I believe this to be true.
@mollie: I admit I am not pleased with Flames, though I can see town motivation behind his posts. Granted, it is not clear. Does that make sense?
↑farside22 wrote:Game is weird. I don't like rvs all the time. Sometimes I'll vote, sometimes I dont. Most time I wait 5 pages and get reads on people.
Feel more like I'm pulling teeth reading people here.
You seem bothered by Fourtrouble staying on the periphery of the discussion, but you don't seem bothered by Flames. Why is that?
Interesting note. I had a connection drawn in my mind earlier regarding ABR, but I forget with whom it was drawn.
The comment about flames in this post has him as a town read but at the end when talking about Mollie's post towards me, he finds it interesting. There is nothing interesting if you are town reading one player. You find it interesting if you think one maybe scum and there is a connection.
Basically it is shallow comments that don't read together as a cohesive thought process.
Next up is the four stuff.
↑Andrius wrote:Forgive me, I spoke without charity. I found it annoying in the darkness I allowed myself to fall into. I will strive to let it bother me less.
Mortify the heart.
But to answer your perhaps rhetorical questions:
1) It bothers me because I do not know who, in a hydra, is posting. And because I assume it is done to irritate people.
2) No, because I would know who made the post. Barring difficulties.
3) No.
Again, forgive me, if you may. I spoke without charity and felt without love.
I will give Peregrine time because, while at this moment I cannot remember where, I do remember him as being a decent scummer who should come around.
Iece entered the game as I entered the game, and was not afraid to say he was confused by the flavor (Food). It is not necessarily that explaining things is town-aligned (someone, forgive me that I cannot remember who, correctly stated that helpfulness is not alignment-discerning in and of itself) but I see his play as coming forward from that point as being solidly town.
Ah, welcome FourTrouble.
-------------------------------
FourTrouble wrote:I don't like his entrance, or 186, or 190,
or any of his posts
.
That may not be something I can help, sir.
"Underwhelming presence" is not weak or bad reasoning. Certain players have prescence, like meta. Fate, would not be Fate if he were not yelling and, as Nacho said in his GKTAS, leading the town with a messiah-like complex. Does that make sense? It is similar to meta, but different in that it means the actual prescence in a game. Your previous votes were a vote, a refusal to explain said vote, two town-read, and a question. Besides this post, you have provided us two town-reads, and a scum-read with no explanation. That does not offer much prescence. I am glad to see you return, even if it there was more stick than carrot, so to speak.
Regardless, my vote will stay because I find it odd (or perhaps circumstantial) that you return after I vote you and explain this vote (one may put forth an case that this is OMGUS) whereas you refused to provide reasoning for your first vote. I understand that you are V/LA, and await more reads/content to the game. I do find it odd that the first vote/read you explain is mine, only after I voted you. I await being able to discern more of your motivations, sir.
FT wrote: it's like unconsciously expressing that they won't always be town
It is stating that I still read them as town. Reads change, as do people. I have played games where alignments change. I have played games where people change. This is neither, but I will continue to state my reads, even if they do not change.
↑Andrius wrote:Because I wanted to see if you thought
it
was scummy before they were scummy. There's no point in pursuing a person if the act is not suspect.
It just came to me to ask it of you, so I complied.
he town, or does he just appear to be so?
Your word choice left it open to doubt. I want to understand you.
AllisWho wrote:Would it be accurate to say that you believe 4Tenors is exhibiting this behavior?
Yes. At least, up to that point.
↑Nachomamma8 wrote:like abr not picking on all is who the actual hydra abomination seems like him trying to continue not to play to the crowd since his beginning push on you guys didn't really go so well. i think abr's strength as scum is playing to the crowd around him: he generally knows the right amount of aggressiveness people are gonna like, he knows the types of angles people are willing to push, etc. i see him playing to the crowd here whereas konowa just seems like he's playing emotionally
This actually makes a lot of sense.
Andrius, to mollie wrote:mollie, what do you think of the meta argument regarding ABR and his conciliar nature?
Still want your opinion.
FRATRES
southern gothic
all is who
farside
iece
nacho
flames
pine
Any clue why he is voting four?
I'll give you a clue, it was based on my view of four. Since then four has come in and engaged, but Andy leaves his vote there because.....????
The dude showed up after saying he was away for sometime and explained why he couldn't post more.
How much sense does it make.
Also I don't like Andy asking Iec about Peregrine. It reads as looking for approval from someone else. If you have a scum read, you vote them. Who gives a fuck if others agree right away.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:42 am
by farside22
Sorry for the mess. Post preview is not my friend. The first post was by andy.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:50 am
by Iecerint
If [AndyTown], the way that he asked me about Peregrine suggested to me that he thought I might be scum with Peregrine and was trying to like "catch" me in a contradiction with respect to PereV. Like, maybe he thought I would say "yes, reading and not knowing the scum is scummy" and then he would say "aha so you must think PereV is scummy!" and evaluate my reaction.
But, similar to your comments about there being some gaps in the thought process in other areas, it's not clear why he would think I was scum leading up to that really.
I guess this logictrain could potentially move into being suspicious of me post-Pine, if I have the chronology right. So that's something.
I expected the OMGUS to come after the case, not before it.
