1) Shotty asked why. How come does answering make my posts scummy & yet you townread Shotty? 2) It is not OMGUS when it had merit 3) Not a scumtell, the prob. discussion. Your case is completely biased and sounds more like "This Ircher wagon looks great.... I'll jump on board!" -
This readlist really doesn't make sense. How was I still your biggest scumread? Are you truly that biased? Shotty is in your strong town section yet Titus is not. Why? Your Zakk townread is 99% meta based, shouldn't you show a little caution there? You're also scumreading KTS, but I don't understand why. This just seems like a random readslist you put together. -
-1 Point
Realky don't like this guy's tunnel. Seems too biased for scum though.......
Total Score: -1 point
Average Score: -0.16 (-1 / 6)
Final Score: -0.16 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of 0)
I think this is a somewhat risky statement to make. As either alignment, it strongly suggests both Copper & I are not both anti-town. I'm leaning town here though. -
In the @Titus section: a) No, but I would change as soon as I got a scumread. Maybe unvote if the RVSed player is town imo. b) Ok. c) His anakysis was valid imo. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Overall, I get probably town reads from this post. It seems like a decent response to me. -
+2 Points
3. 169 - Votes Nos in 167 because of attacking me for statistics not town mindset -
I dunno.... I feel that of all the things Copper could have chosen, this just feels.... Well, this just feels nitpickey. Not sure if this is town or scum really...... -
When I look at the last few posts of Copper, I can't but help think that Copper is very skilled in rhetoric. He's like Cassius who turned the crowd against Brutus in the William Shakespearean play
The Tragedy of Julius Caesar
. I just cannot help thinking he's trying to manipulate people with his rhetorical skills. -
I fundamentally disagree with your approach here, and it really reads more as "I should change my read, so I can lynch him if necessary." Srry, but that's the motive I saw there. -
-2 Points
6.
It perplexes me as to why Copper decided to keep his vote on Nosferatu. Has Nos really struck your radar so much? If so, I think you need to expound on your earlier explanation for voting Nos. -
-1 Point
Total Score: 0 points
Average Score: 0 (0 / 6)
Final Score: -0.5 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -0.5)
I mean... what?
What's there not to get?
The numbers aren't that important for you guys as it will be for me later.
I think this is a somewhat risky statement to make. As either alignment, it strongly suggests both Copper & I are not both anti-town. I'm leaning town here though. -
In the @Titus section: a) No, but I would change as soon as I got a scumread. Maybe unvote if the RVSed player is town imo. b) Ok. c) His anakysis was valid imo. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Overall, I get probably town reads from this post. It seems like a decent response to me. -
+2 Points
3. 169 - Votes Nos in 167 because of attacking me for statistics not town mindset -
I dunno.... I feel that of all the things Copper could have chosen, this just feels.... Well, this just feels nitpickey. Not sure if this is town or scum really...... -
When I look at the last few posts of Copper, I can't but help think that Copper is very skilled in rhetoric. He's like Cassius who turned the crowd against Brutus in the William Shakespearean play
The Tragedy of Julius Caesar
. I just cannot help thinking he's trying to manipulate people with his rhetorical skills. -
I fundamentally disagree with your approach here, and it really reads more as "I should change my read, so I can lynch him if necessary." Srry, but that's the motive I saw there. -
-2 Points
6.
It perplexes me as to why Copper decided to keep his vote on Nosferatu. Has Nos really struck your radar so much? If so, I think you need to expound on your earlier explanation for voting Nos. -
-1 Point
Total Score: 0 points
Average Score: 0 (0 / 6)
Final Score: -0.5 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -0.5)
I mean... what?
What's there not to get?
The numbers aren't that important for you guys as it will be for me later.
Then keep it out of this doggone thread. Put things important to us in there.
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:28 pm
by Ircher
Nah, I need to find them quickly.
The long and short of them is that - indicates scum while + indicates town, and the farther from zero indicates the strength.
The long and short of them is that - indicates scum while + indicates town, and the farther from zero indicates the strength.
Ask the mod for a fucking PT then.
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:35 pm
by copper223
@Ircher
That was obvious to us all.
The problem is that the way you weight it and the reads you choose to incorporate are completely arbitrary and as far as I can tell, assuming benign intentions, your reads this game are a giant OMGUS so you might as well replace it with a "who hates Ircher the most counter" and vote for them.
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 3:45 pm
by Ircher
Its not arbitrary. But yes, generally, if its related to me, Im more likely to comment.
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:56 pm
by TehBrawlGuy
Tired, also a little tipsy. Will catch up in the morning, but posting now to tell you all I'm not dead.
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 8:22 pm
by Aneninen
So, I'm going on with the catch-up.
In post 202, Lowell wrote:persivul and titus are town.
also I 100% agree with #160. This was the first post that really read scum-cautious to me. VOTE: tehbrawlguy
seth is newbtown. shotty is town. meh or irch, he's not reading town, but he hasn't crumbled under pressure either.
I'm curious whether there will be explanation on any of these reads from him.
If not
, Lowell, where were those reads from? Do you think the same things right now?
In post 204, drmyshottyizsik wrote:He is very easy to read. Look at how he treats Copper and Titus and the way he reacts to everyone else. He have never been real scum before and is flailing not knowing what to do.
How many times have you met Ircher so far? In both games I have he was on his way to mislynch early-game. (Unfortunately, he was lynched in neither cases. Unfortunately, because I was scum.) Despite my reads on Ircher (partly based on meta) this post looks like a lazy explanation.
In post 207, Titus wrote:@Shotty,
If anything, your play looks aggressive one moment cautious the next. You're hyper focused on Ircher being scum. You also have Copper and I both as scum. That reads list is ridiculous and puts you in a position to jump on Ircher/Copper whichever is popular. You also seem to not have a stance on TBG.
As for the first part, I found the same while catching-up. I didn't notice the second part, though.
tbh i dont know where sk even came from but i assume it's on one of the pages i didn't read.
in any case, that's not why i'm scumreading you in the least. it's not even a factor.
You mentioned pages 2–7 before. And nothing there.
The whole SK-topic just popped in. Re-checked my catch-up; the topic appeared first in Seth's 174.
In post 218, Persivul wrote:I was in shotty's most recent scum game, and this doesn't feel the same. In that game, he largely commented on other player's posts about other players, i.e. tried to appear active without really pushing anyone. In this game he's pushing.
That's true. But his reasons don't seem strong and/or genuine.
In post 234, MagnaofIllusion wrote:On an initial basis I have to say I disagree with your meta read on Shotty. I have two specific markers I read for in him and he’s really not showing either to this point. And it is very early.
In post 237, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:i'm a really gut-based player. i like concrete evidence a lot, but i always begin with gut and figure out why later.
Sp psuedo science instead of science.
Spoiler:
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!
As if there were no other intuitive players.
As for the whole Shotty/ETL talk on the same page, I think Shotty was either misinterpreting or misrepresenting ETL.
In post 250, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:ok. it's based on my last experience with him, which was only a few months ago, and he was aggressive as scum.
That was about Persivul. My last experience with him is about a couple of days old and he was aggressive as town.
In post 266, drmyshottyizsik wrote:I was making a joke is my damn point!
Also you are mad that I'm not OMGUS'ing ETL? What? They very fact that they are pushing me right now is why I don't have a read yet. Like I said before any opinion I have will be tainted.
Posts like these sound so "calculated" in my mind.
Meanwhile, Persivul's 278, 283. These are very similar to his recent towngame.
In post 304, copper223 wrote:...
I choose the names out of the list at random cause I wanted to increase the pressure on Seth .
...
@Seth
If you are hard claiming SK we can use you as a vig and give you brownie points when we win, how about it?
What was that last part? And how did that add up with that line above?
Also, you picked a single post from Magma for quoting in the same post. Why him?
Also, Magma's answer (307) and Copper's response (308). Why do I have the feeling they wanted to change the topic of the game here? (Or how can I phrase it.)
In post 324, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:actually i think copper and shotty may both be scum and if multiball, same team. is multiball allowed in normals? i dont even know, it's been about a year maybe since i played a normal.
Aaaaaaand if it's a Multiball, we should remember this!
In that case it could have come from a scum faking lack of information. I've seen scums doing so before and I myself have done so before.
Also, we should remember that Zakk's 349 was lacking real scumreads.
In post 363, Ircher wrote:Ill try to do isos over the weekend, but from going through and reading, Lies esp. strikes me as town so far. Anen's one post has struck me on scum side since its similar to the way Anen acted in Mechanics UPICK (Micro 600). Ill do other people later.
Whut?
At that point I had had one post and zero content!
In Mechanics UPick I had been at L–1 (even fake-hammered) on Page1, before my first post!
What are you talking about?!
In post 366, cytheflyguy wrote:I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now VOTE: Ircher
ewwww
Parrotting this.
However
, I didn't like the speed of the wagon on CytheFlyGuy either! Zakk: 369, Titus: 372, ProjectMatt: 374. The latest one is simply lazy (especially because he quoted other things in his post before the vote), the other two are WTF! Two players had been producing reasons and reads before – but moving the vote because of one single thing!
In post 366, cytheflyguy wrote:I have read nothing and everything at the same time. Ircher seems most scum atm so I'll go with him for now
VOTE: Ircher
Can you please elaborate on this? You have only made 2 posts so far and you are sheeping, why can't you tell us a good reason that Ircher seems most scum? VOTE: cytheflyguy
I will retract my vote if you give me a sufficient explaination
GHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
And this one was the worst!
Sheeping the quickwagon, asking for explanation BUT voting at the same time. If CytheFlyGuy is scum (which is a possibility, that post from him was terrible indeed), Seth could have been panic-bussing him here. I know it's speculative and it's merely a feeling but it's still there.
________
Almost there!
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 9:37 pm
by Aneninen
In post 382, Killthestory wrote:i have nothing against egg, but i simply cannot understand why hes scumreading me for saying that im obviously going to pick the right choice, which is town. asking me my alignment is so fucking dumb
Okay.
In post 383, SethYazura wrote:It's not wrong to assume there is an sk in a large game, saying there is an sk in a large game does not make me scum. If there isn't one then this game is heavily in favor of us.
There are many other possibilities. Eg. 17:4 with plenty of scum-PRs or 15:3:3 No, having an SK in the Setup is absolutely not obvious.
In post 395, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:tbg is scum. lotta words with zero actual content. he never explains why he thinks what he thinks beyond "it didn't sit right with me". VOTE: tbg
Erm, he's almost as low-content as CyTheFlyGuy. Therefore this vote is almost as lazy as the Cy-votes.
In post 396, Titus wrote:@anen, so you'd deliberately have your vote on a townread?
As I said, I tend to keep my RVS until I find a scumread; regardless of my actual read on my RVS. So, that's not a tell in my eyes.
In post 398, Egg wrote:Anen, I'm curious what meta point you think you have on me. My 103 is null at best. It's just me catching up. I hope you're not scum just looking for a reason for an easy town read on me. You've seen me play well as scum so you not being paranoid of me has me worried that your town read might not be genuine. Although I think you did it last game too and I didn't question it because you were already obvtown when I replaced in. So maybe I'm overthinking it. Also, on drmy and zakk, is early noise really a scumtell?
Meta = Killer Instinct. Your style is very same as it was there. Also, I remember your SK-game (it took place a year ago or so) and it was very different. On early-Day1 that sort of read is enough for me.
Early noise isn't essentially a scumtell
in itself
, but there were (and are) other things too.
In post 401, heuristically_alone wrote:From what I've seen, players quoting other games tend to be town. Would anyone agree or disagree?
I don't think it's a tell.
Ircher's 412. I don't know what to think that kind of posting. Long ago I saw a scum doing the same, but he was a replacement.
In post 416, Ircher wrote:The reason why I think this either has multiple scumteams or an SK is because its a large & would run too slowly without some extra kills.
Current Speculations:
Shotty, Cythe - Mafia A
Copper, Zakk - Mafia B
Assuming a Multiball is not better than assuming an SK.
In post 422, cytheflyguy wrote:Lynch me if you want. I can be more use later. Right now I'll just be a potato and see how the votes go (This is my first macro game, after all)
Whut?
Either I'm misinterpreting this unintentionally or this was just a kind of "playing the newbie card".
In post 427, Ircher wrote:Why is Shotty town? He's literally been trying to find every single minor reason to scumread me.
Wait-oh.
Shotty was doing plenty of other things too – yet your opinion on him is based
alone
on his attitude towards you.
Why?
Expedience, 442. Can you explain your Shotty, Lowell and KillTheStory reads?
In post 464, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:This reeks of coaching. I take it scum don't have daytalk, eh? VOTE: Titus
Sorry, friend. You gots ta go.
Another assumption, this time about Daytalk...
Titus. Is there something behind that "Sorry, friend" ?
In post 483, TehBrawlGuy wrote:Tired, also a little tipsy. Will catch up in the morning, but posting now to tell you all I'm not dead.
I don't like the way he's "flying under the radar".
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:06 pm
by Aneninen
So, here's what I think now.
Town
Egg (partly meta, partly because his efforts look genuine, which back the meta I know)
Killthestory (no change on him)
Lean Town
Titus (also partly meta; I don't think she's right about Copper, but, she's trying to get another reads too, meanwhile. But, her Cy-vote was lazy.)
ESL (she reads quite a lot of things in the similar way as I do, but there are those disturbing bits, see my previous posts!)
Persivul (not enough content yet, but I can imagine this is the town-Persivul I know well)
Expedience (like his catch-up so far. Egg asked about his reads and he answered quickly. As I get good answers too, he may move to Town)
Conflicted
Copper (my early read got weakened, eg. 304 and around)
Ircher (plenty of disturbing things. His town-meta was different, that "scumread" on me, etc. But, these "statistic-posts" is typically something I can imagine from town-Ircher.)
Lean Scum
Zakk (no change and that lazy vote)
Shotty (I'd add this to my previous read: his scumgame I saw was indeed different, but it seems he's misrepresenting things)
CyTheFlyGuy (his posts are terrible, BUT so was that quickwagon on him, which makes me think: what if he's just an easy mislynch?)
TheBrawl (At my early-catch-up I marked him as "pay attention to", and the fact he's been under the radar since then is not a good sign)
ProjectMatt (fence-sitty, that 373–374
together
... my very early town vibe has evaporated)
Scum
Seth (SK-speculation, lazy vote, no scumhunting...)
There are a couple of players not on the list. Either because of the lack of content or because I haven't formed an opinion yet. Or I simply forgot about them being in the game. (If the latter one turns out, that's not a good sign.)
VOTE: Seth
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:46 pm
by copper223
@Anen
Do you have game-time with KTS?
Posted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:53 pm
by copper223
In post 485, Aneninen wrote:What was that last part? And how did that add up with that line above?
Also, you picked a single post from Magma for quoting in the same post. Why him?
Magma asked me a question hence the quote and why I addressed him.
What about the last part, if Seth is SK, he slipped up and is ready to admit it (as he has an above average chance of getting lynched anyway), we can use him.
The line above was the answer to Magma about why I picked those names.
Do you mean meta on KillTheStory? No. His posts show genuine scumhunting plus paranoia.
In post 489, copper223 wrote:Magma asked me a question hence the quote and why I addressed him.
I must have missed it then. (No surprise, I had to catch up with 20 pages or so.)
In post 489, copper223 wrote:What about the last part, if Seth is SK, he slipped up and is ready to admit it (as he has an above average chance of getting lynched anyway), we can use him.
I would never trust a claimed SK.
I don't know whether Seth is SK or not, but I do think he's scum. In 183:
"Copper said I will laugh hard as scum if I flip scum in my lynch, which is a contradiction, since lynching sk as a mafia goon early in this game is serious trouble as there will be less kills per night, giving the Town more time to correctly lynch the mafia."
– Infromation instead of analysis. His other posts are not better either, including that jump on the Cy-wagon (right after it gained momentum.)
I think this is a somewhat risky statement to make. As either alignment, it strongly suggests both Copper & I are not both anti-town. I'm leaning town here though. -
In the @Titus section: a) No, but I would change as soon as I got a scumread. Maybe unvote if the RVSed player is town imo. b) Ok. c) His anakysis was valid imo. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Overall, I get probably town reads from this post. It seems like a decent response to me. -
+2 Points
3. 169 - Votes Nos in 167 because of attacking me for statistics not town mindset -
I dunno.... I feel that of all the things Copper could have chosen, this just feels.... Well, this just feels nitpickey. Not sure if this is town or scum really...... -
When I look at the last few posts of Copper, I can't but help think that Copper is very skilled in rhetoric. He's like Cassius who turned the crowd against Brutus in the William Shakespearean play
The Tragedy of Julius Caesar
. I just cannot help thinking he's trying to manipulate people with his rhetorical skills. -
I fundamentally disagree with your approach here, and it really reads more as "I should change my read, so I can lynch him if necessary." Srry, but that's the motive I saw there. -
-2 Points
6.
It perplexes me as to why Copper decided to keep his vote on Nosferatu. Has Nos really struck your radar so much? If so, I think you need to expound on your earlier explanation for voting Nos. -
-1 Point
Total Score: 0 points
Average Score: 0 (0 / 6)
Final Score: -0.5 (In range of -6 to 6; includes bias score of -0.5)
I mean... what?
What's there not to get?
The
reasons
for the numbers.
Why
is the particular post positive or negative?
Why
is the particular post weighted at 1, or 2, or 3?
The numbers aren't that important for you guys as it will be for me later.
What will you get from them later? Also, how do you know that you'll get something from them later? I just checked a handful of your games and don't see you using this system. Can you point to a game where you've used it?
It looks like this is just a way of pretending to analyze without really doing so.
VOTE: Ircher
On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.
Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:05 am
by copper223
In post 490, Aneninen wrote:Do you mean meta on KillTheStory? No. His posts show genuine scumhunting plus paranoia.
I get the part where you say me against the world is a town-tell but which posts do you find indicative of scumhunting for killthestory?
I think Seth is scum or anti-town at the very least because his approach this game has been to try and AtE while not even pretending to be scumhunting, justifying this with: scumhunting d1 is pointless anyway because I can be wrong about it (which in of itself I find more indicative of a scum mentality); I also checked him out and this doesn't seem to be his usual MO either.
Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 12:12 am
by copper223
In post 491, Persivul wrote:On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.
In post 491, Persivul wrote:On an unrelated note, I was concerned with the way ETL and Titus fell into an easy early alliance. Good to see that breaking up.
What if they are both town, wouldn't that be bad?
No. You don't need a buddy to scum hunt. You can vote the same as another player while still being cautious of them.
Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 1:04 am
by copper223
Hmmm, I disagree, town blocks are one of the more effective ways to win games but if this is your philosophy I'm fine with your answer.
Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 2:56 am
by Persivul
In post 496, copper223 wrote:Hmmm, I disagree, town blocks are one of the more effective ways to win games but if this is your philosophy I'm fine with your answer.
I agree that town blocks can be effective. Key words were
easy early
alliance. I don't see this as a town block. No way they had enough information to get such a strong read at that point, as evidenced by it now breaking up.
The long and short of them is that - indicates scum while + indicates town, and the farther from zero indicates the strength.
Oh REALLY I thought + meant bird and - meant rabbit! Seriously your numbers are based on what people think of you and how they interact with you. VOTE: IRcher
Only scum would do this. This is so fake and lazy. You are effectively, and admittedly making a list of people and how +- you think they are based on how they treat you. This is lazy and dumb scum. The only reason anyone would make reads like this is for who to NK, seriously do what good scum do and use a .txt file. I know this is your first time as scum, but you are awful at it. I didn't day vig you, you aren't dead yet, but you will be. You admitted to making a list of reads that achieve nothing, but are for you in the future. You are either claiming PR or Scum, and a PR wouldn't give scum a "here is who I'm interested in investigating or using my pr against" list, that would be suicide at the worst, and at the least incredibly stupid.
Posted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:30 am
by Ircher
@Shotty
You need to stop, as you seriously do not understand me at all.
.
