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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:03 am
by xRECKONERx
778 was more a case of bad modding killing game momentum
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:14 am
by AnonymousGhost
Solution
: have non-geriatric players mod geriatric games
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:59 am
by MagnaofIllusion
In post 466, Mulch wrote:Can someone post here the stats of mafia/town wins in geriatric games along with the setup?
Might be nice to get some stats
Request probably will be relevant in maybe 2 or 4 years when a statistically valid number of games have been run. Be sure to check back then.
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:27 am
by Kmd4390
In post 477, MagnaofIllusion wrote: In post 466, Mulch wrote:Can someone post here the stats of mafia/town wins in geriatric games along with the setup?
Might be nice to get some stats
Request probably will be relevant in maybe 2 or 4 years when at statistically valid number of games have been run. Be sure to check back then.
Town has won 50% and scum has won 50% which means all geriatric games are balanced.
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:44 am
by mastina
In post 473, Mathdino wrote:while 778 was partially a loss due to lurkers and lack of prompt replacements.
Isoing the mod, I got the feeling the mod was rather geriatric as well, modding in a style which was circa 2006-2009.
...While that level of moderation is
acceptable
(I don't think Lord Gurgi can be badly faulted for how he ran the game even if you do assign him
some
blame), it's not what I think a geriatric game needs for the players to succeed.
People make frequent note of how the site meta regarding playstyle has changed over the years, but what they also seem to forget is that
modding
style has changed over the years as well. The modding style which worked back in that era I don't think is well-suited for modding a game in the current era. Least of all a game utilizing special mechanics, which geriatric games do.
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:52 am
by Mathdino
i would argue then that the geriatric ruleset is pro-town if and only if the playerlist is normally active
i think the ruleset was definitely helpful to town in Aeronaut's game, since there was less material to get overwhelmed by, but all players were still producing genuine content to the point where it was easy to get reads
it is not, however, helpful if used as an excuse to only post once every 2 days
and i think geriatric games have the unfortunate potential to draw a crowd of lurkers or people who just don't have time to play mafia
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:15 pm
by T-Bone
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:22 pm
by Mathdino
I mean is the solution to just policy lynch all lurkers? That doesn't seem much better
I no longer believe spamposting is a major contribution to lowered town winrates
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:34 pm
by insanity018
Having played in Micro 768, I don't think it is the ruleset that is the problem or that geriatric games are going to be inherently full of lurkers.
I think the amount of lurkiness in Micro 768 was more because:
- the mod was not enforcing prods
- there was one slot that was constantly not posting for days at a time, and that slot was not being replaced
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:54 pm
by popsofctown
I haven't played in a couple years but I always felt like I wish people were posting more.
I only play in one or two games at a time though.
I've been the highest post count in a thread and alongside the lowers at times. Very anecdotally. I have no idea how others would characterize my verbosity.
I feel like it has decreased over time as I am more able to identify what I don't need to say. Maybe a trend in higher posting is a sign of growth because that is a phase for all players... I don't know.
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:20 pm
by Aristophanes
In post 466, Mulch wrote:Can someone post here the stats of mafia/town wins in geriatric games along with the setup?
Might be nice to get some stats
We should keep the Wiki page updated with stats
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:40 pm
by Kublai Khan
In post 482, Mathdino wrote:I mean is the solution to just policy lynch all lurkers? That doesn't seem much better
Post or Perish
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:53 pm
by xRECKONERx
In post 482, Mathdino wrote:I mean is the solution to just policy lynch all lurkers? That doesn't seem much better
I no longer believe spamposting is a major contribution to lowered town winrates
tbf "lynch all lurkers" was meta on MS for a long time (a long time ago) to fix this exact problem
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:54 pm
by xRECKONERx
In post 483, insanity018 wrote:Having played in Micro 768, I don't think it is the ruleset that is the problem or that geriatric games are going to be inherently full of lurkers.
I think the amount of lurkiness in Micro 768 was more because:
- the mod was not enforcing prods
- there was one slot that was constantly not posting for days at a time, and that slot was not being replaced
this
one of the last scum was a slot that was way past replacement and the mod didnt replace him until LYLO
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:08 pm
by Mathdino
It feels like people have only gotten more anti-policy lynch tbh
I'm trying to bring them back
The most common argument I see is "everyone should get a chance to play"
But we're at a point where there are players who prodge every 48 hours, or who self vote in LyLo, or who fakeclaim PR in opens
Policy fixes that one problem player, not the entire site
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:08 pm
by xRECKONERx
policy is about the only thing that can fix it yep
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:08 pm
by xRECKONERx
lurking is a totally valid strategy which is why LAL was invented
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:11 pm
by Mathdino
One of these days I'm making one of those egotistical MD personal philosophy threads
That literally just advocates policy lynching people
Along with outlining why people are bad at scumhunting in the current climate
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:21 pm
by Lycanfire
if you did that, more policies would go through. nobody is going to policy lynch for one game. it's only beneficial if it's a recurring theme, which it isn't.
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:22 pm
by Mathdino
I mean it's a recurring theme for me personally
But I obviously can't drive policy lynches alone when "everyone should get a chance to play"
Also along the same lines when the fuck did self voting as town become a cool thing to do
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:43 pm
by AnonymousGhost
In post 492, Mathdino wrote:One of these days I'm making one of those egotistical MD personal philosophy threads
Do it.
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:04 am
by Kublai Khan
In post 493, Lycanfire wrote:if you did that, more policies would go through. nobody is going to policy lynch for one game. it's only beneficial if it's a recurring theme, which it isn't.
Well, the overall problem is that pushing for policy lynches is viewed as a scummy move. Policy lynches tend to always be on town because mafia know who is who and can push policy lynches to achieve their win condition without raising suspicion.
To fix this there needs to be an out of game punishment. If someone is town and they prod-dodge and lurk all game then they should be considered to be "not playing towards their win condition" and get some sort of meta punishment if it's continuous.
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:12 am
by Hopkirk
In post 488, xRECKONERx wrote: In post 483, insanity018 wrote:Having played in Micro 768, I don't think it is the ruleset that is the problem or that geriatric games are going to be inherently full of lurkers.
I think the amount of lurkiness in Micro 768 was more because:
- the mod was not enforcing prods
- there was one slot that was constantly not posting for days at a time, and that slot was not being replaced
this
one of the last scum was a slot that was way past replacement and the mod didnt replace him until LYLO
Also agree with this. The slot got away with something like 9 days without posting after subbing in, then 3 replacements worth of prod time. Activity requirements not being enforced will kill a game unless everyone is on the same page for activity. If some people are posting daily, they'll want the game to develop at some point. That's probably why several townies were voting in lylo without the replacement having happened.
Town was also hurt by the D2 lynch being a player who subbed in then didn't play.
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:40 am
by Ginngie
If you get replaced because of activity 3 times then you get a ban lol
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:08 am
by Mulch
Lurkers are more of a problem than spammers imo