Mafiascum.net

In post 472, GuiltyLion wrote:

In post 447, PvtUrist wrote:I would have done exactly the same at the end of D1 as Titus, had I been in her situation. Throughout D1, I was convinced the scumteam was GL!BS, and would have hammered BS perhaps even if he made a hard claim. Again, not completely obvtown, but town by mind-meld and POE.

This strikes me as disingenuous and here's why : who replaces into a game and reads the first day

without

knowing who flipped? I've never read a game like that when I'm a replacement - you gain so much more information reading things through when you know the alignment of as many players involved as possible already.

Also doubling down on the idea that it would be good to hammer a hard claim (or that this wasn't a hard claim) is frankly just absurd. You never hammer a hard claim d1 without a CC, this is not a debate it is a solved issue.

For your information, I followed this game throughout from the beginning. I was surprised when nobody required replacements D1.

As for the whole hammering claim thing (fyi, not a hard claim), I would argue otherwise. I do not know whether you truly believe your argument, or you are playing to authority for sake of alignment. We may discuss postgame if it would be the prior.

Also yay pagetop

In post 450, Map Wolf wrote:

In post 447, PvtUrist wrote:Will elaborate on this later (including an entire case on why GL!MW are scum), so feel free to ask me anything before then.

If you think that, then you are wrong.

That said, there's a decent chance GL is scum (read my post above). Still, I have two questions to that:
1. Would you then commit to a lynch of GL?
2. What happens if he is lynched and flips town? Who would you then think is scum?

Your post above doesn't really explain why there's a "decent chance" I'm scum. Can you elaborate what specifically about my play leads you to think I'm scum?

and question 2 reads like you know I'm flipping town lol

In post 475, PvtUrist wrote:As for the whole hammering claim thing (fyi, not a hard claim), I would argue otherwise. I do not know whether you truly believe your argument, or you are playing to authority for sake of alignment. We may discuss postgame if it would be the prior.

It was a doctor hard claim. It literally does not matter that he said the word "soft", you cannot walk back the word "doctor". You are wrong, full stop.

I'll grant you the point about reading along ahead of time since neither of us can prove it either way

In post 474, Titus wrote:I view this as more about teaching newbies how to play than winning.

I sincerely hope they learned from you not to imitate your doc hammer

Perhaps we can discuss something that would be more worthwhile of our time. Regarding the hammer argument, I'd imagine neither of us would change our opinions, be them real or otherwise. As you've said, it's not up to me, but rather the rest of the players to judge between our arguments.

In the meantime, how is your readlist? Beyond Titus and myself, who else are your scumreads and/or town reads?

I'm honestly getting really sick of people defending that hammer, whether disingenuously or not. PvtUrist trying to defend it is nearly unfathomable to me as I have played with him before as well and generally thought he understood how to play this game. It is an inexcusable action and even if Titus is town here it's an objectively wrong play. If anyone besides Titus or Pvt still doesn't understand this then please let me know and I'll try to explain it again for the nth time.

VOTE: PvtUrist

Interesting vote. Is it because you genuinely scumread me (and if so, please give why), or are you frustrated at my incompetence? The latter is understandable, but assuming you're town, this isn't helpful to town. If you believe Titus to be scum, shouldn't your vote be on her?

I genuinely scumread you. And if you honestly thought that I was scum you wouldn't ask me why I scumread you.

In post 483, GuiltyLion wrote:I genuinely scumread you. And if you honestly thought that I was scum you wouldn't ask me why I scumread you.

It would be good to know why. If not for me, for the rest of the game to understand your thought process. As for the second statement, I read from Mastina that you should treat (talk to) all live, unflipped players as town, even if you're convinced they're scum.

I'll let the other players ask me if they want to hear why I think you're scum.

Cool. Apologies if our disagreement resulted in any frustration on your part, but I do firmly believe the validity of my view. We could discuss this postgame. I have no intentions to purposely cause inconvenience to anyone beyond gameplay or if I personally dislike them (which isn't the case here). I'll be around for the next few hours if anyone needs anything from me.

You're all good mate I'm mostly frustrated at Titus more than anything because I think faustiv is right but her attitude and actions are really being a roadblock to town winning this game.

I think you misplayed by buddying up to her though, even if you get me lynched today it's not going to set you up well for endgame.

And trust me I will make damn sure of that

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

GuiltyLion

(3): Titus, Rise, PvtUrist

PvtUrist

(3): faüstiv, GayBabyJailor, GuiltyLion

Not Voting

(1): Map Wolf

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-27 21:00:00).

PvtUrist replaces TheGildedSun. Nancy Drew is our backup mod.[/area]

well this escalated quickly.

Alright this is an important post so please listen up y'all and reread this if I am lynched.



Faustiv has raised a lot of good points about why Map Wolfs fence sitting on d2 is suspicious. In re-evaluating Titus I've noticed a lot of the same things: Map Wolf is always diplomatic and acting as if he is considering multiple options, but he never really commits to things or initiates action until it is clear how other players are thinking. This is hallmark newbie scum behavior and what was pinging me a lot in the early game. Reread my interactions with him on D1.

It's also noteworthy how he is positioning himself to vote me now instead of PvtUrist. He's trying to argue that there must be a scum in GL/Titus - why? Why does faustiv guessing that Titus is a PR mean that I am suddenly more likely to be scum? Map Wolf has never actually stated a real reason he has scumreading me and his progression on my slot does not follow a believable town trajectory.

PvtUrist came into the game in a tough spot, his slot under scrutiny as his predecessor barely engaged at any point. His actions were to:
- defend and buddy Titus (to the point of absurdity - trust me there is no universe where PvtUrist believes that hammer was pro-town)
- throw shade on my slot
- distance from Map Wolf (also notice how when PvtUrist shows up and claims to scumread Map Wolf, Map Wolf is immediately there to argue back - and his position is "well I'm not scum but GL might be", without considering that PvtUrist himself might be scum).

PvtUrist wants to lynch me today while leaving himself room to bus his partner tomorrow if necessary. The problem this team is going to have is that they should have no more viable mislynches if I am lynched today.

Faustiv is obvious town. Scum would never save Titus in the way he did nor openly speculate about her being the other PR. If faustiv were scum and thought Titus was a PR, he'd either hammer or push her in order to get the claim. confirming her as PR (and even sacrificing himself to get rid of her) would be a huge win for scum. He's never scum this game. He'd also likely just turn to lynch me here instead of pushing onto another slot. All of his game solves are honest and genuine. He should never be lynched this game.

GBJ is also clearly town at this point. Read my last explanation of my townread on him. It's hard for me to explain and I do not have as much time now as I'd like, but that slot is not flipping scum either.

Rise I believe is town due to lack of any clear partner possibilities and the fact that she pushed on me anyone else did. She's wrong but she's town.

If you three can agree to never lynch eachother then scum has no path to winning this game. Titus (assuming she is town) would be the most mislynchable slot remaining, but if she is the other PR then scum will be forced to kill her or risk getting caught.

My guess is their plan to win is to try to get Rise or GBJ to vote eachother in LYLO. As my dying wish if I am hammered today, I want the two of you to that you won't lynch each other over map wolf or PvtUrist. If I can have that guarantee from both of you I'll accept eating rope today and apologies from Rise and Titus in the post game.

In post 464, PvtUrist wrote:I'm confident that GL flips scum.

Also here's a good simple scumtell for the newbies - town almost states "I'm confident" like this. It's fake.

Ever have English teachers tell you the golden rule of "show, don't tell"? When townies play mafia, they naturally show their thoughts and their emotions. They don't have to that they're confident in anything, they just are. It shows in how they speak or argue.

PvtUrist, on the other hand, . It is inherently awkward for him to argue to lynch me because he knows it's a false lynch and a fake scumread. Which shows in how he talks about it - he has to pretend to be confident and try to project that emotion instead of just, yknow, feeling it.

In post 467, PvtUrist wrote:btw, GL's current play reminds me of one of ARB's old scumplay articles (couldn't find it ) where you tunnel town for the majority of a day, deny town actual discussion, and then settle for a compromise town lynch at deadline.

You said you were going to case GL but if you have, I don’t see it. The above is the only thing resembling a case I can find.

What is your case on GL being scum?

In post 171, TheGildedSun wrote:

In post 170, Map Wolf wrote:To be honest, I still don't like GBJ pushing Blatant. It feels a bit fake or convenient. Still, if Blatant is town, then their behavior is really not useful at all. I will VOTE: Blatant Scum as I don't like their posts myself tbh:

65 is a pretty stupid post. Their entire posting history consists of short comments with little substance.

To be clear, what I don't like is GBJ seemingly pushing him quite hard.

This has already been spoken about. As I, and Guilty Lion have said, it seems too obvious. Why in the world would mafia attempt to stand out? Unless they're trolling. If they're trolling, then maybe looking into a policy vote. I'm pretty sure a slot can't just refuse to contribute to the game, regardless of alignment.

Is it just me or does Map Wolf's sudden vote on Blatant seem a little contrived? He provides no backing other than things that have been mentioned over and over and I feel like it's in an attempt to move the heat off of him back onto Blatant.

I remember this post pinged me at the time because TGS wasn't voting Map Wolf herself, now it makes more sense under the hypothesis of a Map Wolf / TGS team. Distance from the buddy but don't actually put them in danger of lynch

PtvUrist you say you’ve been following the game since D1. What was your read on TGS?

In post 446, Map Wolf wrote:

In post 445, PvtUrist wrote:Readlist;
{GL, MW} scumpair

Can you explain why that's your view? If we were both scum (which I am not), wouldn't it make more sense for us to disagree more? The only problem I'd have with a lynch of GL is that there's a chance that he is town. Perhaps a better chance than you being town for all I know.

In post 448, Map Wolf wrote:

In post 414, Map Wolf wrote:

I think if Titus is town,

then there is a good chance that

the scum pairing might be GL and Rise/TGS.

I want to also think about GL. What if he was scum? What would the state of the game then be? I can see it being possible that his way of trying to townread players is a way for us to do that in return. Feels like he assumes the best in everyone, except Titus (although I don't blame him too hard for that).

I am kind of tempting to join the wagon on TGS, but there is kind of an issue with that in theory. If we assume one of GL/Titus is scum, then a mislynch today could essentially force us to choose between one of them tomorrow. That would not be that great of a prospect for us, so if TGS was town, then she'd be the perfect push for today.

I honestly wouldn't mind lynching GL and then potentially Titus tomorrow. That might get us the best chance of winning.
UNVOTE: Titus

I want you all to read this back and forth

Read it over and over again until you see how fake it is

Map Wolf between these two posts realized his only chance would be to set himself up to vote me and not PvtUrist

In post 448, Map Wolf wrote:

In post 414, Map Wolf wrote:

I think if Titus is town,

then there is a good chance that

the scum pairing might be GL and Rise/TGS.

I want to also think about GL. What if he was scum? What would the state of the game then be? I can see it being possible that his way of trying to townread players is a way for us to do that in return. Feels like he assumes the best in everyone, except Titus (although I don't blame him too hard for that).

I am kind of tempting to join the wagon on TGS, but there is kind of an issue with that in theory. If we assume one of GL/Titus is scum, then a mislynch today could essentially force us to choose between one of them tomorrow. That would not be that great of a prospect for us, so if TGS was town, then she'd be the perfect push for today.

I honestly wouldn't mind lynching GL and then potentially Titus tomorrow. That might get us the best chance of winning.
UNVOTE: Titus

what is this?

In post 496, GuiltyLion wrote:

In post 446, Map Wolf wrote:

In post 445, PvtUrist wrote:Readlist;
{GL, MW} scumpair

Can you explain why that's your view? If we were both scum (which I am not), wouldn't it make more sense for us to disagree more? The only problem I'd have with a lynch of GL is that there's a chance that he is town. Perhaps a better chance than you being town for all I know.

In post 448, Map Wolf wrote:

In post 414, Map Wolf wrote:

I think if Titus is town,

then there is a good chance that

the scum pairing might be GL and Rise/TGS.

I want to also think about GL. What if he was scum? What would the state of the game then be? I can see it being possible that his way of trying to townread players is a way for us to do that in return. Feels like he assumes the best in everyone, except Titus (although I don't blame him too hard for that).

I am kind of tempting to join the wagon on TGS, but there is kind of an issue with that in theory. If we assume one of GL/Titus is scum, then a mislynch today could essentially force us to choose between one of them tomorrow. That would not be that great of a prospect for us, so if TGS was town, then she'd be the perfect push for today.

I honestly wouldn't mind lynching GL and then potentially Titus tomorrow. That might get us the best chance of winning.
UNVOTE: Titus

I want you all to read this back and forth

Read it over and over again until you see how fake it is

Map Wolf between these two posts realized his only chance would be to set himself up to vote me and not PvtUrist

yeah I’ve just seen that. That 448 is screaming scum to me.

we have 2 days. I’m down to flip this onto Map. I’m more confident he is scum.