[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Staeg]

Junpei, why not add a 1-shot vig for more mayhem and 2 shots?

[Junpei]

Because then I can't afford (3) Vigilante and grab the cop immunity which is necessary for this. Trading a full vig for a one-shot is silly

Two vigs, 3 mafia, 13p game, cops, NK immunity, cop immunity. Easiest shot an SK will ever have at a win.

[Staeg]

Ohhh, I forgot that you only get 10 points.

[callforjudgement]

Junpei's setup would suck for groupscum, but I'm not sure if the SK is balanced against the town in it.

[quadz08]

Just a balanced no flip game really XD

For a no-flip game, I suggest that you make it 11:2. No reveal is hilariously scumsided, IMO.
For possible roles:
1 town living rolecop
1 town dead alignment and role cop
1 town (x-shot?) vig
1 town gunsmith
1 town bodyguard
6 VTs
1 scum dead rolecop
1 scum living rolecop

In other news, Hoopla's game is freaking awesome. Just saying.

[Junpei]

Junpei's setup would suck for groupscum, but I'm not sure if the SK is balanced against the town in it.

The SK is overpowered.

[Hoopla]

Lots of cops, 3 NKs and no worry of death. And a shot to finish off any certain scenarios. Seems like the best option to me.

Not a bad option. I wasn't expecting to get the ratios perfect the first time around - so I expect to change things around to minimise any glaringly advantageous selections. Perhaps the setup is trying to do too much and I need to reduce the variables.

[Oversoul]

The Experiment

This actually seems like a really cool setup and probably one of the only opens I wouldn't mind playing in.

[BBmolla]

Bank 1:
(1) Innocent Child (PM version)
(1) Even Night Cop
(2) Odd Night Cop
(2) 1-Shot Cop
(3) Cop, Godfather
(3) Cop, Roleblocker
(3) 2x Town Masons
(4) FBI Agent (gets guilty only on SK)
(4) Cop, Even Night Cop, Roleblocker
(4) Cop, Odd Night Cop, Godfather

2 points - SK receives 1-Shot Commute (cannot kill and commute on same night)
3 points - SK receives 1-Shot Bulletproof
5 points - SK receives Unlimited Bulletproof

-Why is 1-Shot and Odd Night cops 2, but Even is 1?
-Why is Cop, Odd Night Cop, Godfather 4 points, but actually selecting them individually is five?

[Faraday]

Well Odd night gets a result on Night 1, as does 1-shot. Even night has to live to Day 3 to get a meaningful result, so it's weaker.

[BBmolla]

(2) 1-Shot Cop
(3) 2x Town Masons

(1) Cop Enabler
(1) PGO

(3) Vigilante

vs. SK with Unlimited Bulletproof and Cop Immunity

Aw yeah Survivor

I'd still much rather put a 1-Shot Cop against myself then an Even cop who has potential for multiple reports.

Edit: Two scum roles useless here, but whatever, don't have time to fix.

[Faraday]

He would have to live until Day 5 to get 2 reports. Without being killed OR ran up. Optimal play for the even night cop is probably to claim Day 3 with a result, really.

[vijay2vasandani]

Wait, don't SKs need shots to win at endgame and achieve their last man standing wincin?

[Staeg]

They strangle someone in the daylight or something.

[andrew94]

[quote="In post 4744-Why is Cop, Odd Night Cop, Godfather 4 points, but actually selecting them individually is five?

is like kfc combo meal.
its cheaper if you get them in a group

[drmyshotgun]

[quote="In post 4744-Why is Cop, Odd Night Cop, Godfather 4 points, but actually selecting them individually is five?

is like kfc combo meal.
its cheaper if you get them in a group

???

[vijay2vasandani]

[quote="In post 4744-Why is Cop, Odd Night Cop, Godfather 4 points, but actually selecting them individually is five?

is like kfc combo meal.
its cheaper if you get them in a group

Yeah but combo meals have no downsides. This combo means you don't get the 5 point bonus you'd normally get. It's like getting the KFC combo meal for a cheaper price, but they take a chicken away or something.

[Phillammon]

Sorry to bring this up again in the midst discussion of an AWESOME setup, but I figured how to protect from massclaims and protect against some of the town bias of it. May have swung back to scumsided, though. We'll see.

Delphi

3x Mafia Goons

4x Oracles
7x Sightless Oracles

-Oracles and Sightless Oracles receive the same role PM, in which they are told that they may or may not have "the sight".
-Each Oracle picks a person each night. If that oracle dies that night and they chose a town-aligned player, then the player that they chose becomes mod confirmed town. However, if the oracle is lynched, they are a sightless oracle, or they chose a scum-aligned player, then no such confirmation occurs.
-Scum have a factional nightkill, which also reports the role of the killed player to the scum QT.
-Night Kills do not flip.

[vijay2vasandani]

^ I like.

[Phillammon]

Could possibly be shifted to have 4 sightless oracles and some actual VTs/Powerroles in case of it being scumsided. As is, the job for the scum is to look as townish as possible while offing the oracles, so that there won't be enough confirmed town to stop them come LyLo.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

In Opens like that you need to watch out for VTs becoming a named role though. Best to avoid them.

[Phillammon]

Fair enough, but such a thing would be useful if it is indeed scumsided.

[Junpei]

Seems like the scum are at a distinct disadvantage. They have no means to tell who is an oracle which reveals someone or not, it's just a crapshoot as far as roles go. There's no strategy.

[Phillammon]

I was thinking that the strategy would be to appear townish enough to draw the investigations while killing off people who they suspect to be the true oracles, but then again that means nothing, given said oracles don't know who they are. How about moving things around *even more* like so:

Delphi

3x Mafia Goons

3x Dying Oracles
3x Spying Oracles
3x Sightless Oracles
2x Randomly Selected Oracles

-All oracles receive the same role PM, in which they are told that they may or may not have "the sight".
-Each Oracle picks a person each night. Depending on what kind of oracle they are, different things happen:
-Dying Oracles, if they die that night and their target is town, mod confirm their target.
-Spying Oracles, if their target dies, the Spying oracle receives the flip.
-Sightless Oracles do not do anything.
-Scum have a factional nightkill, and a factional rolecop/coroner. This rolecop may be used on the target, or used on someone else, or used as a coroner report on an already-dead person. This reports the role back to the Scum QT.
-Night Kills do not flip.

[Junpei]

Other than the fact that that's a lot of confirmed towns flying around, seems to have a similar issue. No point n cornering since theres 2 random oracles though and so that's some information.

I guess I just don't know how I feel about hidden cop roles in the game; seems like a larger counterbalance is needed if that's what you're after. Or some other crafted mechanic.