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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:32 am
by Kagami
I think scum attacking their buddy's partner is actually a pretty good scum move in this setup, but I don't think dunn did that.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:32 am
by mhsmith0
In post 4794, inspectorscout wrote:How hard is it for people to understand that awareness of your own meta and even using it as an argument renders it at best NAI.
People are generally bad at manipulating their meta in fundamental ways. Things that people understand themselves to be bad at doing are generally things that they generally don't want to try as scum, which once again begs the (unanswered) question of why scum!smith would be doing all these things he doesn't normally do as scum, in situations that don't require it at all.
Not just "well gee maybe he did it" but why any of that actually makes sense. I get that thinking deeply about things isn't your shtick this game, and heaven forbid you self-analyze your thoughts and processes, but maybe, just maybe, if you're town you could TRY and think deeply about stuff.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:35 am
by inspectorscout
In post 4797, Dunnstral wrote:
Scout
scout
scout
How come I'm suddenly in your scumpool? My plan involving your death shouldn't be bad to you.
I'm not scumreading you, although I do think your "I need scout dead cause I cant read him" is pretty shit and you have never done this before (please note that in all my games with him (5 or so) i was always town, but i played with him as scum, town and cult leader)
also again, you're not a scumread
I'm entertaining the idea
Also, how does that scumteam work out? If pie and parama are scum HOW AM I SCUM TOO? and not your pair? Hello???
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:37 am
by inspectorscout
In post 4801, mhsmith0 wrote: In post 4794, inspectorscout wrote:How hard is it for people to understand that awareness of your own meta and even using it as an argument renders it at best NAI.
People are generally bad at manipulating their meta in fundamental ways. Things that people understand themselves to be bad at doing are generally things that they generally don't want to try as scum, which once again begs the (unanswered) question of why scum!smith would be doing all these things he doesn't normally do as scum, in situations that don't require it at all.
Not just "well gee maybe he did it" but why any of that actually makes sense. I get that thinking deeply about things isn't your shtick this game, and heaven forbid you self-analyze your thoughts and processes, but maybe, just maybe, if you're town you could TRY and think deeply about stuff.
now can you please fucking stop being so condescending?
if you say "i cant do that as scum lulz see im town"
IT'S NOT IN ANY WAY HELPING THE SITUATION, NOR DOES IT PROVE THAT YOU ARE TOWN
Now this doesn't have anything to do with thinking deeply. it's common. fucking. sense.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:38 am
by Dunnstral
Scout that's not what I've said though? (I saw what you wrote)
Where did I say that? I said I suspected that ~someone~ in your pair of two might be the target (or participant) in a bus with Parama if he's scum
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:38 am
by inspectorscout
In post 4802, inspectorscout wrote: In post 4797, Dunnstral wrote:
Scout
scout
scout
Also, how does that scumteam work out? If pie and parama are scum HOW AM I SCUM TOO? and not your pair? Hello???
How come I'm suddenly in your scumpool? My plan involving your death shouldn't be bad to you.
I'm not scumreading you, although I do think your "I need scout dead cause I cant read him" is pretty shit and you have never done this before (please note that in all my games with him (5 or so) i was always town, but i played with him as scum, town and cult leader)
also again, you're not a scumread
I'm entertaining the idea
EBWOP
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:38 am
by mhsmith0
In post 4803, inspectorscout wrote:now can you please fucking stop being so condescending?
if you say "i cant do that as scum lulz see im town"
IT'S NOT IN ANY WAY HELPING THE SITUATION, NOR DOES IT PROVE THAT YOU ARE TOWN
Now this doesn't have anything to do with thinking deeply. it's common. fucking. sense.
Oh good, scout made a townlean post.
#TonalReads
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:44 am
by inspectorscout
but don't you townread me?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:44 am
by Kagami
Hi smith, how about you produce a reasonably likely configuration of scum from {sad, scout, jester, MDS, parama, HS}, and explain why it's likely?
That would be a great way of demonstrating your towniness.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:44 am
by mhsmith0
FWIW, It would be stronger if
1) He'd gotten mad at me (much) earlier
2) He didn't effectively use it as an excuse to dodge the question of why it made sense for scum!me to have done those things
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:45 am
by mhsmith0
In post 4808, Kagami wrote:Hi smith, how about you produce a reasonably likely configuration of scum from {sad, scout, jester, MDS, parama, HS}, and explain why it's likely?
That would be a great way of demonstrating your towniness.
Am working on it, I will let you know if/when I feel like I have a good idea. Don't really feel like vomiting up a guess just for the sake of vomiting up a guess.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:47 am
by Dunnstral
Not really
I don't even necessarily scumread you
I think there's scum in your pair IF parama is scum
And I just need to know it's not you before mhsmith.... you should be able to understand that?
Because if you're scum that changes things. If SAD is we can still get mhsmith like you want
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:47 am
by inspectorscout
In post 4806, mhsmith0 wrote: In post 4803, inspectorscout wrote:now can you please fucking stop being so condescending?
if you say "i cant do that as scum lulz see im town"
IT'S NOT IN ANY WAY HELPING THE SITUATION, NOR DOES IT PROVE THAT YOU ARE TOWN
Now this doesn't have anything to do with thinking deeply. it's common. fucking. sense.
Oh good, scout made a townlean post.
#TonalReads
Don't fuck with me. You keep asking questions for things that can't be explain and call me bad town for it over and over and over again.
Now I tell you something where you are OBVIOUSLY wrong and you wave it away with irony and "oh scout made a townie post haha"
I thought you were convinced of me being town? where did that go?
Pedit: I have patience. You should learn that as well, mhsmith.
I also didn't dodge. Why would town!you do that?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:48 am
by inspectorscout
In post 4811, Dunnstral wrote:
Not really
I don't even necessarily scumread you
I think there's scum in your pair IF parama is scum
And I just need to know it's not you before mhsmith.... you should be able to understand that?
Because if you're scum that changes things. If SAD is we can still get mhsmith like you want
lol you're scum
you are never namedropping and kind like this when you're town
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:50 am
by Dunnstral
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:50 am
by Kagami
Great, smith.
As an additional challenge, let's put a 3-name limit on said configuration, a 400-word limit on why they're scum together (spoilered/linked quotes not included), and a 0-word limit on how to play mafia.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:51 am
by Dunnstral
What does namedropping mean there
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:57 am
by mhsmith0
In post 4812, inspectorscout wrote:Don't fuck with me. You keep asking questions for things that can't be explain and call me bad town for it over and over and over again.
Now I tell you something where you are OBVIOUSLY wrong and you wave it away with irony and "oh scout made a townie post haha"
I thought you were convinced of me being town? where did that go?
Pedit: I have patience. You should learn that as well, mhsmith.
I also didn't dodge. Why would town!you do that?
1) Tonal/gut reads CAN be explained (which I've discussed at length already). You chose not to try at all, leaving me with the burden of figuring out why that is. I'm pretty sure most of the stuff I've said can be answered if you care to try, and you don't care to. If you feel like coming up with a list of "unanswerable" things I've asked you to refute that essential point, please feel free.
2) Of course you dodged. I asked why it made sense for scum!me to do those things and you were essentially like "screw answering that, you're just doing WIFOM". It's very obviously a dodge. Telling me that I am OBVIOUSLY wrong does not change the fact that you're choosing not to think through the point I raised and instead just going the easy route of claiming it's WIFOM, self-meta etc and therefore doesn't need to be engaged with at all.
3) I've bounced back and forth on you, generally on the town side but with substantial reservations and suspicions, which I'm pretty sure has been clear enough in my postings. Your apparent representation that I've been consistently holding a strong townread on you is either a lie you have told yourself or one you have told us, and once again you leave it to me to figure out which it is.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:59 am
by inspectorscout
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:00 am
by Dunnstral
So you think the posts you quoted there indicate I'm scum?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:13 am
by inspectorscout
In post 4817, mhsmith0 wrote:1) Tonal/gut reads CAN be explained (which I've discussed at length already). You chose not to try at all, leaving me with the burden of figuring out why that is. I'm pretty sure most of the stuff I've said can be answered if you care to try, and you don't care to. If you feel like coming up with a list of "unanswerable" things I've asked you to refute that essential point, please feel free.
2) Of course you dodged. I asked why it made sense for scum!me to do those things and you were essentially like "screw answering that, you're just doing WIFOM". It's very obviously a dodge. Telling me that I am OBVIOUSLY wrong does not change the fact that you're choosing not to think through the point I raised and instead just going the easy route of claiming it's WIFOM, self-meta etc and therefore doesn't need to be engaged with at all.
3) I've bounced back and forth on you, generally on the town side but with substantial reservations and suspicions, which I'm pretty sure has been clear enough in my postings. Your apparent representation that I've been consistently holding a strong townread on you is either a lie you have told yourself or one you have told us, and once again you leave it to me to figure out which it is.
1) i already said I can't and won't explain a tone read. It's something and that's it. This has nothing to do with me not wanting to think or being lazy or whatever, this is just what I mean by tone. If you can analyse it, it's not tone, it's psychology or some shit.
2) I said self-meta is bullshit. It's not scummy per se, but it's not protown at all. You basically provide your own arguments that are based on how you play when you aren't town. If you are scum now, you can easily tell us that, and fake at least one of those points. not in the meta, in your current play. you raise the point of meta, thus you are aware if it. That alone renders it useless. Scummy? Not really, because I won't let you get away with doing so. but what do you advance with it being town? nothing either, nobody will read and say
'oh right i forgot
town guys, back off!'
3) you never ended an argument saying I was scum. also, you always expressed a townread on me when I asked you to vote me (because you seem to love arguments with me, i think i asked you to twice)
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:14 am
by inspectorscout
no, those indicate the namedropping
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:16 am
by Dunnstral
ok. And you think the namedropping indicates scum so you're kind of saying those posts are your argument for me being scum?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:09 pm
by mhsmith0
In post 3834, Parama wrote: In post 3831, mhsmith0 wrote: In post 3830, Parama wrote: In post 3825, mhsmith0 wrote:That seems like a non-indicative lie, more like something that's exaggerated because he was pissy as opposed to a wolfy lie. Why is that scum-indicative beyond a relatively lazy ("it wasn't accurate therefore scum" take)?
"Nobody else is scumhunting, but -I- am."
which comes across more as "fuck you assholes for being lazy" than "give me town credit for my work" to me. Why do you think it's the latter more than the former?
it's a "i'm better than everyone else so you should listen to me"
lol I forgot about this one. Parama scum-reading SAD for arrogance, even though arrogance is generally a villagery trait (actually, arrogance is one of the most villagery emotions you can see, unless you think it came across as fake or you're dealing with a player who's especially good at faking that sort of thing). Bonus points for anyone here who's played with town!RC btw.
@Parama: If SAD is just being an arrogant jerk instead of a wolf, what does the game board look like to you?
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:21 pm
by mhsmith0
this is also hilarious given our back and forth wrt kagami. I get kind of nervous that this is just bad posting that's pocketing me by how bad it is, but I just feel like at some point, especially with day chat, if he was scum he probably would have had SOMETHING seemingly useful to say instead of just "nope nope how dare you ask for me to explain this thing that I don't want to explain"