Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[zMuffinMan]

town bomb is like 100% negative utility at least in design (as in % wise, it hits town a hell of a lot more than scum), and i would also say even if the person hits scum it's just neutral but that's a lot less likely than not

[Remilia Scarlet]

like what if they just had to post their daykill in the thread

and they can't because they can't post

[midwaybear]

Oh I guess that is true sorry. I thought you meant claiming early before you knew a 420 existed.

[zMuffinMan]

how do you figure that it's a roleblock?

because there's zero mention of them being unable to action today, they're just unable to vote/post/be voted

[Remilia Scarlet]

town bomb is like 100% negative utility at least in design (as in % wise, it hits town a hell of a lot more than scum), and i would also say even if the person hits scum it's just neutral but that's a lot less likely than not

I mean if you use it correctly it's just an extra elim - you can claim who you did it on and force them to claim etc

[Remilia Scarlet]

because there's zero mention of them being unable to action today, they're just unable to vote/post/be voted

My unilateral experience w/ day kill abilities is that they have to post them in thread

but i'll capitulate that i have no proof of that

[zMuffinMan]

like what if they just had to post their daykill in the thread

and they can't because they can't post

that is a possibility, but i sincerely doubt scum targeted them with a silencing role banking on that alone to prevent it

like

that's a huge waste of a role on a gamble?

[zMuffinMan]

i've never seen a bomb that had to post in thread but i've also never seen it be a day action i think

[Remilia Scarlet]

i am basing this on them saying to my recollection that it was a day action

[Remilia Scarlet]

that is a possibility, but i sincerely doubt scum targeted them with a silencing role banking on that alone to prevent it

Don't know. I think the point that unless it's repeatable it doesn't really have much of an effect long term is more salient

[zMuffinMan]

I mean if you use it correctly it's just an extra elim - you can claim who you did it on and force them to claim etc

yes, and that's negative utility because it relies on one person being correct and gives town zero extra information outside of the flips. unlike, say, a regular day, which gives town an extra night of actions and a wagon to analyse

do you actually not think of a bomb as negative utility?

[Remilia Scarlet]

that silence also acts as an insulation such that the person cannot be eliminated or even scrutinized the next day

[zMuffinMan]

I think the point that unless it's repeatable it doesn't really have much of an effect long term is more salient

yeah, that too, makes it incredibly unlikely for it to be a scum-on-town action but i've already mentioned that point 69 times

delaying the inevitable is a huge waste of the role

[Remilia Scarlet]

do you actually not think of a bomb as negative utility?

I think it has mixed utility. it is more transparent than a vig shot and the person with their finger on the trigger has the entire test of the game to communicate with about it

[Remilia Scarlet]

and like you can pressure the person with the "you're dead if i say so" and they can claim innocent child / mason and you can not kill them

[Remilia Scarlet]

not that a vig would ever shoot a mason accidentally

[Remilia Scarlet]

hi nacho

[morph the cat]

I cannot vote for the white mage today.

like i realize i'm not normally wont to petition you like this but i really really really think i'm right

This is not me going after Moogle Dance Troupe in Tales of I forget which one
or literally anything i did in xmen at any point in the game

This is me going after Anatole in in Nati's game

We'll discuss. We're somewhat torn between trying to sort the PRs vs scumhunt the VTs.

I'll have more time for the game in about an hour, I think.

[Remilia Scarlet]

ok well i'm busting into the liquor supply tonight so i'll probably be around a while

[Remilia Scarlet]

Oh I guess that is true sorry. I thought you meant claiming early before you knew a 420 existed.

it's not relevant whether or not i know a 420 existed

it's that if they do exist and i am force to claim i am not neutered by that claim to the extend most other positive utility roles would be

[zMuffinMan]

i'm not talking about potential utility, if i were looking at the role from a game design point of view, 70% of the time it's going to hit town and do nothing more than take a day away from town. a lot of negative utility roles COULD be used in game-breaking ways but that's not what you should be considering when you balance around them (at least IMO)

anyway this is delving into theory territory and i don't care enough about it except to point out that even if i ignore reads entirely and assume all three of the other PRs are town, i don't see that as enough town power in a setup with at least one overpowered scum role (probably only one but even still, that's like a game-breaking ability if they saved it for a lylo scenario and blindside town with it)

the caveat here is that it's POSSIBLE that one of the people who was likely to be bombed by mariaboy used that role as a hail mary because dead anyway but meh

[zMuffinMan]

like the ability to remove someone from the game would hypothetically destroy any potential your role even has because no actual lylo

that's

just so overpowered

that i don't think weak neighbouriser as the only real form of town power is enough to counter it

[Remilia Scarlet]

like the ability to remove someone from the game would hypothetically destroy any potential your role even has because no actual lylo

I think you're making a lot of assumptions to get to this point

[midwaybear]

Yeah, if the 420 doc role existed it would be good, but if you didn't know it existed, then I was thinking it would be loss of utility considering you think 420 doesn't fit with your claim.

[zMuffinMan]

also 420 resolves itself unless scum is dumb enough to think they can get away with not killing a doc who can continually protect a weak neighbouriser until the weak neighbouriser hits scum lol

ergo a bad vote today regardless of anything else in the game