Mini 918 - A Hot, Steaming Bowl of Mafia - Game Over!

[sigma]

As you are discussing who to kill over the day's breakfast, an awful noise comes from the end of the table. As one, you turn to look at Sotty7, who is turning red. Before she collapses, she manages to gasp out two words:

"oatmeal... poisoned..."

Sotty7 has been killed.

You search her, but can find no evidence of mafia ties in her possessions, thus revealing her as a

Vanilla Townie.

---

The day continues.

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: Feb 17th, 8:00 pm (EST)

Vote Count:

Col.Cathart ( 0 )
d3x ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
Shotty to the Body ( 2 ) Konowa, charter
Hoopla ( 2 ) Locke Lamora, Shotty to the Body
Moai Interceptor Cannons ( 4 ) dry-fit, d3x, Col.Cathart, Hoopla
charter ( 0 )
Konowa ( 0 )
Nikanor ( 0 )
Locke Lamora ( 2 ) Moai Interceptor Cannons, Nikanor
dry-fit ( 0 )
No Vote ( 1 ) RedCoyote

[Hoopla]

Wow. Should we be iso'ing Sotty now to see who her suspects were before she died?

[RedCoyote]

"oatmeal... poisoned..."

Poisoned oatmeal? Now they've gone too far.

---

Wow. Should we be iso'ing Sotty now to see who her suspects were before she died?

Why the question? Don't you want to give your opinion? You're town too, aren't you?

^ What he said.

Vote: MIC

For the dice thing.

charter gets some early town points with me. I like the early jump in scum hunting, even if I don't agree with the active lurking assessment. He's got his sleeves rolled up ready to get to work. A big plus.

Shotty's reaction doesn't do much for me. The counter wagon thing was strange but nothing he has posted has felt scummy.

There's really not much to go on here. She only mentions SttB, charter, and Maoi in her two posts.

I'm not biting though, if anything it's WIFOM designed to get us looking more closely at one of those players. I'm considering this a relatively random kill. Perhaps by a role who has a daykill he must use quickly?

If anything, I say it's best to vote somewhere outside the little connection Sotty had to the game.

Vote: dry-fit

[Hoopla]

I was making a joke, but I thought using the rolling eyes smiley would be too pretentious.

[d3x]

Another Random Vote, RC? What makes dry-fit different than any of the other unmentioned players?

[Locke Lamora]

RC: why the assumption that Sotty's kill is WIFOM and not simply scum getting rid of a good player, or town going on a very early hunch? Your eagerness to divert attention away from those players seems odd to me.

[Dry-fit]

@RedCoyote: If you think it's wifom, wouldn't the proper response be to not factor the kill into your suspicions rather than say

If anything, I say it's best to vote somewhere outside the little connection Sotty had to the game.

[charter]

The third wagon or my attempt to 'impede' the other two gives just as much info if not more than if everyone had just blindly gone along and said 'Now what?' or waited for same random nothing to start another over.

I'm afraid I don't see how, please explain.

I believe charter's actual opinion has been summed up in this quote. (key parts in bold)

I don't think his joking about getting votes is scummy

, since I've never figured out when someone does it if they're scum or town, just useless.

I just don't care for it.

I can't decide if he's scum trying to take advantage or town that's trying too hard, have to sleep on it.

No, my actual opinion on you is that your trying to start up a third wagon without commenting on the two we had, was scummy.

I echo Dry-fit's question right there.

[Nikanor]

Perhaps by a role who has a daykill he must use quickly?

Except that daykills are already getting into abnormal territory. If the mod put a day-killing role that has to kill before a certain time (page three, for example) in this game, I'm going to kill him.

Shotty's acting weird. I've only ever seen him as town, but he's usually more serious than this. It looks like he's going back to being a normal person now, but it certainly raises a red flag.

[Col.Cathart]

Unvote

vote: RedCoyote

I think you're trying to shift attention away from 3 players at once. Possibly, you're a scum and one of those three is your buddy.

Also - As I said, my last exam is on Tuesday, so don't expect me to post much today. If I won't fail it, I should be much more active from Tuesday afternoon to at least 22th (end of my winter break)

[RedCoyote]

Another Random Vote, RC? What makes dry-fit different than any of the other unmentioned players?

Can it really be considered random if I am throwing possibilities out?

But I'll willfully admit that, of the remaining 7, there's no specific reason for dry-fit.

Would you prefer it be someone else? Who?

---

why the assumption that Sotty's kill is WIFOM and not simply scum getting rid of a good player, or town going on a very early hunch?

I'm not denying other possibilities, I'm simply saying that right now I think it's best that we completely take anyone directly involved with Sotty out of the picture. I could see the town bickering over what are ultimately circular arguments (e.g. "Sotty was shot after she said charter was town... suspicious" "Moai was voted by Sotty, clearly we should lynch him after her killing").

---

If you think it's wifom, wouldn't the proper response be to not factor the kill into your suspicions

I'm not. That's why I'm not voting anyone who Sotty mentioned, because I think it's pointless or potentially harmful to argue which one of them were "most likely" to be her shooter. Especially considering we don't know the alignment of said shooter.

---

I think you're trying to shift attention away from 3 players at once.

I take it you disagree with my conclusion then. Which of the three should we give attention to, or should we examine all three? Do you think you'll be able to discern which of them are more townie/scummy? How?

[Locke Lamora]

Why take them out of the picture? I agree, circular arguments are a possibility, but that's only if we focus on them because they were mentioned by Sotty. Following your logic, what we ought to be doing is treating them like everyone else, not taking them out of the picture. I think we all realise there's absolutely no point focusing on a couple of comments on the first two pages at this stage. Personally, I don't understand why you'd be so quick to give a few players an easy ride if you were town.

Unvote; Vote: RedCoyote

Shotty and MIC have already had attention on them, but to me it looks like you're trying to shift that away, and it's the second time you've defended Shotty early on. Is your reason for moving that pressure simply that you think we'll get into pointless arguments about what Sotty said?

[Hoopla]

Is this a new wagon I see forming? I love it!

Vote: RedCoyote

[d3x]

Can it really be considered random

there's no specific reason for dry-fit

It seems you're splitting hairs there, RC.

WIFOM means that you can neither go after nor ignore someone based on information that you cannot know yourself. Thus, as LL said the players mentioned by Sotty should be no different than anyone else.

I think it's pointless or potentially harmful to argue which one of them were "most likely" to be her shooter

There's a big difference between not using Sotty's death as a factor to go after a player and completely taking them out of the ranking for potential Scum. The fact that you'd so easily jump to this extreme makes me very apprehensive about you RC.

I'm also curious, you said that you'd want them off the table 'for right now'. When would you say we could discuss them again as potential Scum?

[RedCoyote]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Back it up.

There's a big difference between not using Sotty's death as a factor to go after a player and completely taking them out of the ranking for potential Scum. The fact that you'd so easily jump to this extreme makes me very apprehensive about you RC.

If this is what Hoopla, the Colonel, and Locke think I am saying, then there's obviously been some miscommunication.

I'm certainly not clearing anyone. I never meant to give that impression at all.

[d3x]

@RC- Reconcile these two.

I think it's best that we completely take anyone directly involved with Sotty out of the picture.

I'm certainly not clearing anyone.

[Shotty to the Body]

The third wagon or my attempt to 'impede' the other two gives just as much info if not more than if everyone had just blindly gone along and said 'Now what?' or waited for same random nothing to start another over.

I'm afraid I don't see how, please explain.

You have a real opinion of me at least, I have a real opinion of you and some others. Much better than some nothing burger wagon.

No, my actual opinion on you is that your trying to start up a third wagon without commenting on the two we had, was scummy.

You're right, I should've said something about how suspicious dice rolling was and then done what everyone else did so I could be a boring lemming.

unvote, vote RC

He's either contradicting himself at worst or at the very best back-pedaling hard.

[Shotty to the Body]

Shotty's acting weird. I've only ever seen him as town, but he's usually more serious than this. It looks like he's going back to being a normal person now, but it certainly raises a red flag.

The last normal I was in had a day-killing SK. It seems the rules are a bit flexible. I admit I may take some part in meta shadowing with random acts, but I'll try to keep it from being the majority of my play.

Also my last post was full of irony in retrospect.

[d3x]

On second thought, let's add this one in too.

I say it's best to vote somewhere outside the little connection Sotty had to the game.

Again, how is this "not clearing anyone," even temporarily? If we're putting a halt on Voting the 3 players you suggested, what

is

it called if not 'clearing'?

[RedCoyote]

Reconcile these two.

I meant that we should take anyone directly involved with this Sotty shot out of the picture as far as accusing them of killing Sotty.

If anything, I say it's best to vote somewhere outside the little connection Sotty had to the game.

That right there is what I mean. Let's not vote based on any of Sotty's connections, because that would likely lead us astray. Even if there is a connection, we don't necessarily know what it would be, that's why we have to take them out of the picture.

how is this "not clearing anyone," even temporarily? If we're putting a halt on Voting the 3 players you suggested, what

is

it called if not 'clearing'?

You're sending mixed ideas here. I'm not clearing anyone of anything, first point, because the shot could've came from anywhere. Second point, I'm saying that we should not vote anyone based on, "Sotty talked about charter, likely charter shot her, likely he's scum". Nowhere have I expressed the idea that any of them are scum or town, as I'm not even talking about anyone's alignments.

Just because I don't want to vote them on the back of Sotty's death doesn't necessarily mean I think they are town and/or "clear". That's about as simple as I can make it, but frankly I thought that went without saying. If that's what I'm getting voted on, then I'm open to arguing the point.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Haha, daykills! This is gonna be an entertaining game.

On the subject of recent matters, RC is being attacked for something pretty stupid IMO. It's like the weakest wagon I've seen in yonks, you scum need to do better than

that

. I'm not the most free person in the world right now, but someone summarise what everyone has against RC in one post and I promise I can show you how ridiculous it looks when I shoot it down with homing asteroids.

Is it just me or is Hoopla's play in this game really suspicious? I know she doesn't trust D1 lynches to produce scum at all, and I have a feeling that it's too blatant to be genuine scum antics, b-b-but ...

[Hoopla]

Is it just me or is Hoopla's play in this game really suspicious? I know she doesn't trust D1 lynches to produce scum at all, and I have a feeling that it's too blatant to be genuine scum antics, b-b-but ...

I don't understand what you're talking about.

[Locke Lamora]

MIC: it was fairly clear to me, and apparently several others, that RC was saying that we should deliberately NOT look at those three players at this present time to avoid getting into circular debates over Sotty's comments. My opinion is that we should avoid talking about any connections between those players and Sotty's comments, not that we should avoid talking about those players altogether. I never assumed that RC meant those players were cleared for the entirety of the game; my issue was with the fact that he appeared to be suggesting we give those players an easy ride for the moment. This is as valuable a time as any to put pressure on people, so his attitude seems anti-town to me.

Also:

Reconcile these two.

I meant that we should take anyone directly involved with this Sotty shot out of the picture as far as accusing them of killing Sotty.

And therefore we should take everyone else out of the picture because then we're into WIFOM about whether they'd kill Sotty to implicate the others. Am I right in detecting a hint here that you think the purpose of your vote is to catch the person who killed Sotty? If you're not, then I don't understand your initial decision to rule those three players out of your voting options.

To summarise: on one hand, you argue that we shouldn't dwell on Sotty's connections to those players. This, I agree with. On the other, you insist on voting outside those players BECAUSE of the kill. My thought is that you shouldn't be factoring in the kill at all, not reacting to it by voting someone who she didn't mention.

[sigma]

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: Feb 17th, 8:00 pm (EST)

Vote Count:

Col.Cathart ( 0 )
d3x ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 4 ) Col.Cathart, Locke Lamora, Hoopla, Shotty to the Body
Shotty to the Body ( 2 ) Konowa, charter
Hoopla ( 0 )
Moai Interceptor Cannons ( 2 ) dry-fit, d3x
charter ( 0 )
Konowa ( 0 )
Nikanor ( 0 )
Locke Lamora ( 2 ) Moai Interceptor Cannons, Nikanor
dry-fit ( 1 ) RedCoyote
No Vote ( 0 )

[RedCoyote]

Do you think my vote is locked down in someway? I'm sorry; I just don't understand. I can't make it any more clear than I already have. If Moai is able to understand me, then I know I'm communicating it effectively.

I don't know where you got the idea that my vote is intended to catch Sotty's killer. I'm voting with the kill in mind, sure, but I already told d3x that the vote is essentially "random" outside of that.