Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[GhostWriter]

NO MORE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

I am completely serious about that, I have no idea how many times I have to reitterate it.

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

Do you disagree with his reasoning behind why not to?

[DavidParker]

It's a theme game, here more than elsewhere, people will want to talk about setup and flavor. Especially when setup/flavor has already been strongly hinted at by the mod.

[EGL]

@GhostWriter, LlamaFluff will get it when he sees it.

I think he makes a good argument about question three though and I do believe that speculation of the setup so early on D1 benefits anti-town roles the most by far. The first two questions though, to get things going, I don't see anything wrong if people want to answer them.

[LlamaFluff]

It's a theme game, here more than elsewhere, people will want to talk about setup and flavor. Especially when setup/flavor has already been strongly hinted at by the mod.

That means its a good thing because...

@GhostWriter, LlamaFluff will get it when he sees it.

*mind blown*

I sill dont get it, maybe

I think he makes a good argument about question three though and I do believe that speculation of the setup so early on D1 benefits anti-town roles the most by far. The first two questions though, to get things going, I don't see anything wrong if people want to answer them.

The first two add nothing and likely serve as distractions instead of jumping off points. Past experience only really is something to bring up in newbie games since it has lots of bearing there. The second one is not going to actually help us catch scum either, it would be like professing how much I love strawberry ice cream. Cool fact, but useless. Actually I hate all ice cream, just needed an example.

So scum are furcolow, jmj... maybe scorpion... TMH is obviously town, smarg is town... this game is going to be quick.

[EGL]

How do you hate all ice cream??? Is it because you think it's being fluoridated??? I KNOW YOUR ROLE! It's COLONEL JACK RIPPER! Just kidding.

The "You don't get to dictate these things, you know," was a quote of a bunch of Shattered Viewpoint's posts from your Last Will II. I thought you'd remember that as it drew some discussion when it happened.

[EGL]

Llama, what's your take on the PoisonIvy situation?

[EGL]

Oh I just saw DavidParker's answer to my post about him and PoisonIvy!

Why were you being defensive so early, after just one vote?

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, what's your take on the PoisonIvy situation?

I have no good read on it yet. If I had to guess I would put her as slightly leaning town, but its a shot in the dark more then anything else. As I already said, some of the things she said I can see both town and scum saying when they get flustered. I am fully content to push other people and watch it develop.

[EGL]

@DP: My role PM didn't really have that strong implication that there were other nationalities who wanted peace. It was pretty brief. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that there wasn't much there to give a strong implication of it from what I had.

[EGL]

Llama, what do you think of the people pushing against PoisonIvy? Any opinion on the wagoners?

[EGL]

For me, PoisonIvy hasn't adequately accounted for the fact she thought the game was Americans vs. Soviets as opposed to a town who wants to eliminate all threats to peace which is in the pro-town win condition.

[DavidParker]

Oh I just saw DavidParker's answer to my post about him and PoisonIvy!

Why were you being defensive so early, after just one vote?

Because the vote was for nonsensical reasons; if the player who had voted me had just read the rules/info page the vote wouldn't have happened.

[EGL]

I would have thought it was more to do with him not reading the rest of your post but anyway... Does a nonsensical vote during RVS/RQS really merit being defensive unless you're trying to hide something?

[GhostWriter]

For me, the big flaw in the "only mafia would think only Soviets were mafia" is that the mafia wouldn't be all Soviets, so why would they think they were all only comprised of Soviets?

[EGL]

Are you sure there couldn't be an all Soviet mafia? Game Specifics number 4 is listed as a POSSIBLE mafia win condition.

[EGL]

That question was directed to GhostWriter. Also, it doesn't have to be "Only mafia would think X." The point is "no pro-town would think X." That would account for mafia/third party threats to peace.

[GhostWriter]

That's what we call a "red herring". The Cold War involved much more than two countries. If this is anywhere near accurate, then I'd think of China as more of an instigator than Russia. I mean, they did back North Korea during that time, remember?

Preview Edit: My point is that people are jumping on this wagon, only thinking "she must be mafia because she thinks all mafia are Soviets, blah blah blah, and only mafia would do this, blah blah blah, let's leave only two methods of thinking". Right. Because you all had the wincon memorized before someone reposted it for you, right? And someone getting distracted by the giant America/Soviet flag at the top of the page as well as the possible mafia wincon couldn't possibly think that maybe we were up against Soviets, that just doesn't happen, does it? And it's not like they COULD still apply that possibly mafia wincon to our own wincon and say that the Soviets are the threat to peace, could they? To me, there's real mafia on her wagon. I just need to figure out who.

[Scott Brosius]

V/LA until Thursday night

[jmj3000]

Hey smargaret, remember the last game we played together? Yeah, I have suspicions, but since its still fairly early, I'm not going to put a serious vote down just yet. Not everyone has posted yet either. I'm going to bed now, and will read everything when I wake up.

[DavidParker]

I would have thought it was more to do with him not reading the rest of your post but anyway... Does a nonsensical vote during RVS/RQS really merit being defensive unless you're trying to hide something?

I'm quite rude and sarcastic when people attack me using terrible logic/reasoning. It's part of my play style.

[ThAdmiral]

hi guys
so, a few questions for you all:
1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) Started playing on a magic the gathering forum. Moved here.
2) Scum. My best ability, I believe, is staying alive - and that is all you need to do as scum.
3) Too early to say.

OMG furcolow is in this game? I highly recommend a lynch and that all he says should be taken with an allhelping almighty help of salt.. Should any lynch be available for furcolow that he should be lynched town or scum. And i am being serious.

Furculow is improving. So I think this is a bit unfair.

Vote furcolow

RQS stage is scummy, I refuse to answer your questions. I seriously would like to see a furcolow wagon.

NO ONE ELSE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

All the "slips" are fabrications of peoples imaginations

Overreaction for mine.
And I answered the questions anyway, so take that!

For me, PoisonIvy hasn't adequately accounted for the fact she thought the game was Americans vs. Soviets as opposed to a town who wants to eliminate all threats to peace which is in the pro-town win condition.

This is a good point.

vote: poison ivy

[RedCoyote]

Excuse me?

Why are you "guessing" people are "either Soviet or American"? Are you not one of these sides? I figure that's pretty much implied except possibly for some third party role, as you pointed out. I don't think multiple countries/alliances are readily apparent nor something we should begin speculating on. Still, with your post, I don't like the way you phrased it, and it makes for a good, early vote.

RC mis-reading this was one thing, but at least he didn't suggest the game was US v Russia.

I'm not misreading anything. Why are you putting words into my mouth and blowing up over one vote? You seemed more collected the last time I played with you.

---

Rarely read the rules, i just concern myself with being polite. Im generally disinterested in set ups.

This is anti-town, but not necessarily scummy. I disagree with anyone who says otherwise.

---

Anyway, if PoisonIvy had received a town PM, she'd know that the win condition is not "You win when the Soviets are dead."

Actually, this is a pretty good point. Hm.

Why would you even feel the need to mention this?

This is another good point. Ivy seems to be digging herself into a bit of a hole.

---

Legitimate suspicions aren't enough for him to vote DP or Ivy, but a completely random vote is okay? This does not compute.

I like this point as well.

---

3 - The one I really hate. This game looks like scum probably has a decent ammount of information since it appears both US and Soviet can be town aligned. If that is true there are quite a few ways for scum faction(s) to exist, if someone answers this with high accuracy, it can be a big point to scum in thinking they are a power role, since they are a second tier setup role. To explain the tier things, you have Scum-Town Power-VT in how much they know about the setup. Usually scum roles heavily suggest what town roles are around, town roles can usually make a decent guess at the setup, VT is in the dark. There are SO many ways this question can benifit scum, and so few it can benifit town.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. That's valid. Do you think Fur cooked this question up for this purpose or are you reading too much into it?

[LlamaFluff]

3 - The one I really hate. This game looks like scum probably has a decent ammount of information since it appears both US and Soviet can be town aligned. If that is true there are quite a few ways for scum faction(s) to exist, if someone answers this with high accuracy, it can be a big point to scum in thinking they are a power role, since they are a second tier setup role. To explain the tier things, you have Scum-Town Power-VT in how much they know about the setup. Usually scum roles heavily suggest what town roles are around, town roles can usually make a decent guess at the setup, VT is in the dark. There are SO many ways this question can benifit scum, and so few it can benifit town.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. That's valid. Do you think Fur cooked this question up for this purpose or are you reading too much into it?

To an extent it about aggressively shutting down discussion along those lines then anything else. Saying "dont do it" and screaming it while voting him are two different reactions. While I would actually like to see a wagon on furcolow for information reasons, he isnt obviously scum.

[CallMeLiam]

Day I, Vote Count II

DavidParker - 1 -

RedCoyote

Lowell - 1 -

PoisonIvy

PoisonIvy - 8 -

DavidParker, XScorpion, bvoigt, LynchMePls, Artem, gonnano, EGL, ThAdmiral

bvoigt - 1 -

pappums rat

Furcolow - 3 -

jmj3000, LlamaFluff, Scott Brosius

LynchMePls - 1 -

Sathoris

jmj000 - 1 -

smargaret

julienvonwolfe - 1 -

Stephoscope

Not Voting - 7 -

Beasts of the Sea, themanhimself, Furcolow, Lowell, julienvonwolfe, nachomma8, Ghostwriter

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

[Furcolow]

hi guys
so, a few questions for you all:
1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) I started playing mafia on a WoW forum board, when they stopped I moved to a Diablo forum board untill I discovered MS.net a few months ago and finally joined a game.
2) Scum. I tend to play aggresivly and that got me lynched a couple of times when I was the cop or the doc.
3) I usually only play in themed games because I like those setups and I'm glad I was in time to join this one. The theme sounds really interesting. Can't really say more because I only know my role and I have no clue what others might have. Well some clue maybe given it's set in the Cold War

Hey Sathoris! Glad to see you kept the avatar you used during my game, that avatar is awesome.

Vote: Sathoris

because he is crazy good at playing SK Sheriff with a jailkeeping ability and dayshots. Trust me on this one.

1)same diablo forum Sathoris is mentioning. Read the wiki here for some ideas, and then started playing here.
2)My record indicates scum. I feel like it is easier to ACT town than to BE town. This probably says something crazy f*cked up about me psychologically.
3)This question bothers me. I'm unclear what about the setup other than our own roles you are referring to. If it's just our own roles, this question is dangerously close to massive role fishing.

@Furc: What did you expect question 1 to add to the game? What did you expect from question 3?

1)just trying to break the ice
2)
3)and break the game

Mine is no fabrication. PoisonIvy's response was atrocious.

I agree on RQS being useless, but it's not really a scum tell. Definitely doesn't win townie points though.

i

disagree

rqs>rvs for town from my perspective
although it is not much better

How so is stating i played a alternative game and disclosing that i believe there maybe a miller bad exactly?

Your blatant lack of knowledge about this set up is scummy, especially your suggestion that the mafia is Soviet without giving any reasons. This setup is not Soviets vs. Americans. Town are just trying to eliminate the threats to town, it's the other factions who are concerned about what country you're from.

Right. However, I don't believe we should scream at the top of our lungs where we are from

1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) Well, you see, I invented the game, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
2) Scum. As you can tell by my wiki-record, I am most often scum, and have never lost a game as scum.
3) Beware that you actually brush up a bit on the Cold War. Who was with who? Who wasn't?

does Fahrenheit 451 count?

NO MORE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

I am completely serious about that, I have no idea how many times I have to reitterate it.

However, I don't get why it's bad to answer these questions? The answers put some information out on the table, which can be cross-referenced against later in the game. I guess I'll withhold mine in case I'm missing something.

There is nothing to be gained by town in the answers to the questions. They will however create quite a bit of noise, and possibly hint at a role or two given their response, if someone answers something that eventually becomes obvious VT doesnt know.

Breaking them down...

1 - Completely irrelevant to the game. Doesnt even add to experience reads much.
2 - This is a great noise creator, and again will add nothing to scumhunting. It also can start to create some case pushing on responses as opposed to actual scumhunting, unlikely with this question, but potential is there.
3 - The one I really hate. This game looks like scum probably has a decent ammount of information since it appears both US and Soviet can be town aligned. If that is true there are quite a few ways for scum faction(s) to exist, if someone answers this with high accuracy, it can be a big point to scum in thinking they are a power role, since they are a second tier setup role. To explain the tier things, you have Scum-Town Power-VT in how much they know about the setup. Usually scum roles heavily suggest what town roles are around, town roles can usually make a decent guess at the setup, VT is in the dark. There are SO many ways this question can benifit scum, and so few it can benifit town.

I still want the furcolow wagon over a PI one. I like what smargret pointed out about jmj too, who also is an acceptable wagon. Conflicted on the PI wagon, have a VI-ish read so am going to abstain on joining it until I get something clearer down. I can see town or scum saying everything she has.

You don't see town-motivation from trying to game the setup?
Tell me this, also: Do you expect I would have collaborated with my scumbuddies, if i had any, before posting?
because I posted immediately.

It's a theme game, here more than elsewhere, people will want to talk about setup and flavor. Especially when setup/flavor has already been strongly hinted at by the mod.

Hence why I asked question 3 for the town...

I don't see how RQS is detrimental if people answer casually, and don't give away their roles. Is it my fault for asking questions, and for trying to steer away from the senseless RVS? It has already forced a few bandwagons as opposed to random voting/FoS, although that is still somewhat going on.

I am suspicious of LlamaFluff for his black/white reaction to the RQS. Only siths deal in absolutes, kind of thing. The townie reaction, in my opinion, is more along the lines of what Scott Brosius said. He was confused, wishy-washy on it, and then voted me.

I have a brief history with him, as apparently I do with someone else from a game I replaced into, so I'm not going to read too much into his vote on me.

@GhostWriter, LlamaFluff will get it when he sees it.

I think he makes a good argument about question three though and I do believe that speculation of the setup so early on D1 benefits anti-town roles the most by far. The first two questions though, to get things going, I don't see anything wrong if people want to answer them.

here is another townie-style-response
he has been brainwashed by llamafluff, or he actually believes that, but he KNOWS that he can't be for sure which team it is bad for, so his comment is ambiguous. "i think" he makes a good argument, not "he makes a good argument". "i do believe" that speculation of the setup so early... not "speculation on the setup so early"...
see his uncertainty?
llamafluff, however, is not uncertain

i'm not sure what to make of that, though.

Llama, what's your take on the PoisonIvy situation?

I have no good read on it yet. If I had to guess I would put her as slightly leaning town, but its a shot in the dark more then anything else. As I already said, some of the things she said I can see both town and scum saying when they get flustered. I am fully content to push other people and watch it develop.

of course you are
you are willing to lynch just about anyone who is town, i'd say.

I'm not CERTAIN you are scum, though, and I have meta on PI

She walls as town, and I have yet to see a wall from her
until I see a good, solid, town wall from her, I will be voting her

vote: pi