Newbie 1101 - Game over!

[Voidedmafia]

Grimmjow, as scum, you would still be "fishing" for who is Cop/Doc/JK. Actually, my understanding of fishing is that it is a scum tactic used to get Power Roles to out themselves and allow themselves to be NKd.

Ok, touché. I can understand that. I didn't consider the ramifications of asking this as scum. Also, as my first game, I'm not completely sure how this game plays out, so I didn't think about scum needing to hunt down PRs. I can see that though. And I can agree that this does seem a little fishy, now that I *think* that I understand gameplay a bit better.

And not only for the NK, as well: Scum need to know just how many PRs there are. Back in F11, there were 3 possible options that would give at least one PR to either side: No Roleblocker (RB) for scum with either one cop, one doc, or none; or an RB and either both PRs or none. As you may see, knowing exactly how many PRs there are, and which ones (if applicable) is very important for scum to know.

However, as town, I most certainly would need to do this.

So you

were

trying to get information using those questions?

No, I was not trying to get information. I simply stated that, as town, I would need try to get information.

So you were just saying that you would have to do this, and was not posting those in order to get info? Just making sure I understand correctly.

However, Grimmjow, you could have chosen a better topic to start on. It's generally not good to start off asking about roles this early, from what i've heard.

I thought this was the point: trying to figure out what role everyone has. And I wasn't actually asking anyone what their role was. I just asked if you had a preference and if you were happy with what role you got.

It's still a rather touchy subject this early in the game.

Random votes generate discussion and possibly let people slip up and give us bit of information as to which role they have. Those give us clues and then we can work from that.

I don't understand how random votes generate discussion. I thought the point of a random vote was to just "get things over with."

[/quote]
Nonsense. If you want things to be over with, just don't RVS.

Whether or not you actually ascribe to the practice is up to you, however.

Oswald: So, if your vote is an actual, non-RVS vote, care telling us why you're voting him?

[Grimmjow]

However, as town, I most certainly would need to do this.

So you

were

trying to get information using those questions?

No, I was not trying to get information. I simply stated that, as town, I would need try to get information.

So you were just saying that you would have to do this, and was not posting those in order to get info? Just making sure I understand correctly.

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying.

However, Grimmjow, you could have chosen a better topic to start on. It's generally not good to start off asking about roles this early, from what i've heard.

I thought this was the point: trying to figure out what role everyone has. And I wasn't actually asking anyone what their role was. I just asked if you had a preference and if you were happy with what role you got.

It's still a rather touchy subject this early in the game.

I can understand why people would think that it's a touchy subject this early in the game, however I still think that attempting to figure out what role everyone has from the start is very important, so I don't exactly think it's a touchy subject. Besides, anyone that claims anything could be fakeclaiming. I was not attempting to outright ask what role everyone had. I was just asking a yes or no opinion question.

Grimmjow, as scum, you would still be "fishing" for who is Cop/Doc/JK. Actually, my understanding of fishing is that it is a scum tactic used to get Power Roles to out themselves and allow themselves to be NKd.

Ok, touché. I can understand that. I didn't consider the ramifications of asking this as scum. Also, as my first game, I'm not completely sure how this game plays out, so I didn't think about scum needing to hunt down PRs. I can see that though. And I can agree that this does seem a little fishy, now that I *think* that I understand gameplay a bit better.

And not only for the NK, as well: Scum need to know just how many PRs there are. Back in F11, there were 3 possible options that would give at least one PR to either side: No Roleblocker (RB) for scum with either one cop, one doc, or none; or an RB and either both PRs or none. As you may see, knowing exactly how many PRs there are, and which ones (if applicable) is very important for scum to know.

Ok, I understand now. I didn't realize that it was unclear what roles were actually in the game. I was under the impression that one of each role was in the game. I didn't research/understand enough of what this set up was like.

Here's an example of why a random vote will generate discussion:

Person 1: Vote: Person 2
Person 2: Why are you voting for me? I haven't done anything suspicious.
Person 1: I believe your last statement was scummy.
Person 2: What?! How?!

Kind of like that.. o.o
People can sometimes be overproctective, and slip up.
Others may vote 'just to get things over with' but not alot will do this.

I can kind of understand that, however this doesn't seem very effective.

And as far as my attempt to generate discussion goes, I'd say it worked, lol. Though, not in the way I had anticipated.

[Incognito]

Grimmjow, you're dating Reckoner? I thought dramonic was dating him... lol.

Anyway, that's off-topic.

cjdrum's definition of fishing is correct. To better describe it, think about what a person does when they go fishing. They don't jump into the water with a harpoon trying to stab the fish to catch them; they just throw a line out with some bait and hope the fish come to them. By asking a question about roles the way you did, you're not directly asking someone "HEY ARE YOU A POWER ROLE?" like the guy with the harpoon but you'd be being a bit more subtle about it like the guy with the fishing pole. This is all assuming your questions had malicious intent anyway.

I've never played with Reckoner on the forums; only face-to-face. Could you show me where he asked those kinds of questions?

Separate post about other stuff to follow.

[Incognito]

I'd like Oswald to explain his vote too. I don't normally have a problem with votes that don't have explanation, but I wanna see where the guy's coming from thinking-wise.

Also, let's try to tone down on the quote-walling. Some quoting is fine, but it begins to get hairy when it's multiple posts containing lots of quoting back to back to back.

And sancho is probably town, fyi.

May I get everybody to post their timezones and their countries please?

Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Eastern Standard Time.

[Incognito]

EBWOP: Actually I guess that'd be Daylight Time since it's almost summer.

[Grimmjow]

Technically, it's an on-going game, so I'd prefer to not post the link to it just yet in case it falls under the "discussion of on-going games" rule.

@mod: Would this be acceptable or is it against the rules?

Also, yes, I am dating Reck. He and Dram used to date (sort of), but he and I have been together since November. Guys, Pt. 2 much?

[sanchocolates]

I can understand why people would think that it's a touchy subject this early in the game, however I still think that attempting to figure out what role everyone has from the start is very important, so I don't exactly think it's a touchy subject.

So you were trying to figure out people's roles by asking those questions. Am I mistaken? Or are you contradicting yourself?

[sanchocolates]

And as far as my attempt to generate discussion goes, I'd say it worked, lol. Though, not in the way I had anticipated.

Perhaps you were thinking to try and find out some roles without being noticed?

[sanchocolates]

I need more people contributing to the game. Only 3-5 people are currently posting, and thus it makes scumhunting rather hard.
Of course, we have just started but I'm used to starting the game at full speed.

[Grimmjow]

No, I stated that I was not trying to get information about people's roles based on these questions, and I am not contradicting myself when I say that 1) I was not trying to get information using those questions and 2) that talking about PRs this early in the game is not exactly touchy to me. These were two separate statements. So there is no contradiction.

[sanchocolates]

If you weren't trying to figure out the roles of people, why did you say this?

however I still think that attempting to figure out what role everyone has from the start is very important

[Incognito]

I'm guessing that Grimmjow is using the terms "role" and "alignment" somewhat interchangeably. At least that's the impression that I got from this line he said earlier:

if I were scum, I would not need to "fish" for information as to who was town and who was not. However, as town, I most certainly would need to do this.

So when Grimmjow says he needs to figure out people's roles, I think what he really means is figure out whether or not they're town, not whether or not they're a PR. At least that's what I'm hoping.

Grimmjow, nevermind, I found it. I can see that Reck took some heat for his questions too, interestingly enough. Did you notice that also? And nah, I don't follow Guys pt. 2 haha.



@sancho: games on this site tend to move a little bit slower than you might be used to, especially on weekends. I think this game's pace is actually pretty good so far though.

[sanchocolates]

Lol that's weird.. I thought being a weekend, the game would go faster because people will have more time.
We still haven't heard enough from dk_peace, PersonalIdiot04, ZackZ or cjdrum.

[PersonalIdiot04]

Sorry for my inactivity, as this is my first game.

[Incognito]

Haha yeah, I thought that when I first joined here too but nope, apparently people use their weekend time for other things.

ZackZ will probably be replaced but yeah, I agree that we do need more input from those people.

Preview edit: Hey, PersonalIdiot. Do you have any thoughts about the conversations that have happened so far? Even though it's only your first game it's important for you to talk and speak your mind.

[PersonalIdiot04]

Hey, PersonalIdiot. Do you have any thoughts about the conversations that have happened so far? Even though it's only your first game it's important for you to talk and speak your mind.

I'm getting a strong read on Voidedmafia, about his hurriedness to lynch somebody, but I'm not sure what this means.
As for everyone else, I have either no reads or very weak reads.

[Voidedmafia]

Hey, PersonalIdiot. Do you have any thoughts about the conversations that have happened so far? Even though it's only your first game it's important for you to talk and speak your mind.

I'm getting a strong read on Voidedmafia, about his hurriedness to lynch somebody, but I'm not sure what this means.
As for everyone else, I have either no reads or very weak reads.

Lynch someone?

AFAIK, I've never actually made any cases against anyone just yet to advocate their lynches, nor have I actively pushed to lynch anyone.

Care to say where I've pushed for a quick lynch?

[PersonalIdiot04]

Here, in post #26:

Oh, just watch. The level of participation slacks off by the end of D1 if we don't lynch people within a week -_-.

EVERY SINGLE TIME, I TELL YOU! EVERY! SINGLE! DAMN (pardon)! TIME!

Although it isn't going for any specific person, this still sounds suspicious, so...

Unvote, Vote: Voidedmafia

[sanchocolates]

Hey, PersonalIdiot. Do you have any thoughts about the conversations that have happened so far? Even though it's only your first game it's important for you to talk and speak your mind.

I'm getting a strong read on Voidedmafia, about his hurriedness to lynch somebody, but I'm not sure what this means.

Can you state why you think this please?

[Voidedmafia]

Here, in post #26:

Oh, just watch. The level of participation slacks off by the end of D1 if we don't lynch people within a week -_-.

EVERY SINGLE TIME, I TELL YOU! EVERY! SINGLE! DAMN (pardon)! TIME!

Although it isn't going for any specific person, this still sounds suspicious, so...

Unvote, Vote: Voidedmafia

That has no bearing on wanting a lynch, as I personally do not wish to quick lynch. If the caps part didn't clue you in, I'm simply saying that interest and contribution ALWAYS slacks off after a week or so. It's happened in pretty much every game I've been in, barring cases where a sudden new gambit or twist from a player (like my Mini Normal game).

[PersonalIdiot04]

Well, he was the only one who was pushing for an arbitrary quicklynch. Then again, other players may also do that, but he was the first one.

@Voidedmafia: What about games that you didn't play in?

[Incognito]

I can see what PersonalIdiot's talking about, though I hadn't really noticed that before. I was keeping a mental eye on Voidedmafia because something else about his posting was beginning to send me a ping, but it's interesting that PI called him out about something completely different.

That has no bearing on wanting a lynch, as I personally do not wish to quick lynch. If the caps part didn't clue you in, I'm simply saying that interest and contribution ALWAYS slacks off after a week or so. It's happened in pretty much every game I've been in, barring cases where a sudden new gambit or twist from a player (like my Mini Normal game).

Well then what *did* you want to do in order to prevent this slacking off from happening? That quote PI pulled up does indeed look like you may have been in favor of lynching within one week's time unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant there.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, quick post before I go in to work.

I'm not going to continue to talk about that tactic until I hear back from the mod. I can't explain the tactic without knowing what's acceptable and what's not. I'm going to PM the mod and discuss this with him and then we'll get back to it.

Also, I can see where PI was going about Void.

[sanchocolates]

Then again, other players may also do that, but he was the first one.

If you thought others players were pushing for a quicklynch, can you state who those people are please?

I'm getting a scum read on Void. The way he kept saying that it was a touchy subject to talk about makes me think that he has something to hide.

[el simo]

Vote Count

• (2) Grimmjow
  -
  Incognito, Oswald
  
  
• (1) Incognito
  -
  cjdrum
  
  
• (1) Voidedmafia
  -
  PersonalIdiot04

(5) Not Voting:

dk_peace, ZackZ, sanchocolates, Grimmjow, Voidedmafia

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

ZackZ has one day left to pick up his role PM before I replace him.

@mod: Would this be acceptable or is it against the rules?

As long as you aren't revealing any information that can damage their game, it is fine.