In post 20, Gen_Wolf wrote:Why bother with day 1. Lets just lynch Miss Stranger now and go from there? We are already onto our first scum.
I thoroughly enjoyed this post because it clearly articulated what I was thinking when I read the exchange between Feel It and Fegelein and was laced with the amount of sarcasm it deserved. And it lead into some interesting responses from Feel It:
In post 26, Feel It wrote:
Lynching anybody this early would be silly, we need to poke and prod and talk and get reactions, see who seems scummiest before making a decision. Not sure if I should give you benefit of the doubt due to your newness or change my vote now tbh.
In post 28, Feel It wrote:VOTE: UNVOTE
I suppose you're right. While your behavior and reaction was odd, it's not as alarming as Gene_Wolf suggesting to lynch you already.
Opportunistic much?
But what gets me is that even though Miss Stranger was apparently less alarming than Gene_Wolf, you still awarded Miss Stranger with a vote yet Gene_Wolf was not worthy of a vote until 4 hours later.
I also liked how you offered the excuse that possibly you should give him the benefit of the doubt due to his newness even though he is a SE and you are a Newbie.
Moving on,
In post 23, Fegelein wrote:Allowing wagons to form in RVS is a good method to get the game running. We can gauge reactions from James May.
What's your current read on James May then now that the wagon has dissipated?
In post 30, Generic wrote:Best I don't RVS vote anyone because I saw quite a few votes on specific people and my vote could push them too close up the hammer. For the sake of a joke vote just not worth it.
So you wanted to put a
random
vote
specifically
on someone who already had votes on them? Riiiight.
The next exchange can easily be described as Nachomamma firing wild bullets in the direction of Generic hoping one hits. Looks like they all missed to me.
@missstranger, I wouldn't call it forced passiveness, although I can see why. It's restrained passiveness because I'm aware this is a newbie game and my usual openings in games are more aggressive and antagonistic, because I want emotive responses from people because to me they are the most honest responses.
I am also finding it amusing that the way people like to draw attention to things they find off in another player is to sarcastically go 'riiiight' or 'okaaaay' or an equivalent of instead of getting into the meat of it. Why hand wave it away when the more posts you get from someone the more they are likely to scumslip?
@champinoman, you guys had been on while I was asleep (I'm English) tossed around a lot of votes and unvoted and had I just gone with a funny one on say ten wolf for having half my name I realised I risked putting so done at L-2 in RVS. And if I'm going to spend time seeing who had the most votes before I joke vote someone else to avoid this, what's the point? I may as well forgo it altogether and get on with it.
And my opening post has sparked quite a bit of reaction, so I think I made the right call in what I said.
@Nacho, a very good point about putting pressure on players, and yet again your third post has been even more pro town to me. That's a three degrees of separation there, from thinking you had an agenda to thinking you made a smart play. Your vote is still wrong, but it's early do when I'm not on my phone I will hopefully be able to analyse the game better.
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:38 pm
by Generic
Apologies for the grammar, my iPhone predictive chooses words when I miss out letters. Anything too random please ask for a translation :p
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:24 pm
by Feel It
Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE. I find it interesting that you described myself as opportunistic when I've put pressure and ask questions of suspicious behavior, I'm hardly trying to force a lynch already like Gen_Wolf suggested.
Some other thoughts;
The exchange between Generic and Nachomamma8 revealed that Generic is cautious and Nacho is fairly aggressive. Neither of them gave much away that I could notice.
I think Miss Stranger is leaning town. No I'm not trying to get you to lynch Gen_Wolf he just gets my vote because he seems the most suspicious (which at this point isn't much)
Antagon is active lurking, asking about people questions without contributing much himself. Fegelein has done the same but is a bit more involved.
I'm not satisfied with his explanation that he wasn't serious, it was an odd and anti-town comment. I looked at some of his other games and I didn't seem him act like that.
If you are not satisfied with the explanation then that means if I hadn't done that RVS would have been longer, would you have liked RVS to be longer? Plus you have given quite a nice reaction to a reaction test.
In post 20, Gen_Wolf wrote:Why bother with day 1. Lets just lynch Miss Stranger now and go from there? We are already onto our first scum.
I thoroughly enjoyed this post because it clearly articulated what I was thinking when I read the exchange between Feel It and Fegelein and was laced with the amount of sarcasm it deserved. And it lead into some interesting responses from Feel It:
Thank you, finally someone appreciating my post. I have to agree, from the reactions it got I would have to place Feel It as my top scum candidate. This based on his extreme focus on this one post which clearly has been shown as a joke and secondly from his pure lack of involvment in other areas of the game. Almost as if he is avoiding the game because he has something to hide.
In post 53, Feel It wrote:Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE. I find it interesting that you described myself as opportunistic when I've put pressure and ask questions of suspicious behavior, I'm hardly trying to force a lynch already like Gen_Wolf suggested.
(snip)
I think Miss Stranger is leaning town. No I'm not trying to get you to lynch Gen_Wolf he just gets my vote because he seems the most suspicious (which at this point isn't much)
(snip)
Why does being an SE change the fact about the post Feel It? How does that change the game so much that now it is necessary to subject me to your vote?
Miss Stranger has said that one of the two of us are scum, in her opinion and after that post you have now gone and buddied up to her? Hmmm scum much?
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:18 pm
by champinoman
In post 51, Generic wrote:...
I am also finding it amusing that the way people like to draw attention to things they find off in another player is to sarcastically go 'riiiight' or 'okaaaay' or an equivalent of instead of getting into the meat of it. Why hand wave it away when the more posts you get from someone the more they are likely to scumslip?
...
Even though that paragraph wasn't directed at me I'm assuming that it was referencing me and this comment:
on someone who already had votes on them? Riiiight.
To answer more bluntly this time:
In post 51, Generic wrote:@champinoman, you guys had been on while I was asleep (I'm English) tossed around a lot of votes and unvoted and had I just gone with a funny one on say ten wolf for having half my name I realised I risked putting so done at L-2 in RVS. And if I'm going to spend time seeing who had the most votes before I joke vote someone else to avoid this, what's the point? I may as well forgo it altogether and get on with it.
Upon 1 read through you would have noticed 2 players who had attracted a few votes each and a few names that hadn't been mentioned at all. Why not pick one of the later? So your reasoning for not participating in the RVS is more likely that you do not want to create any links between yourself and anyone else through your vote. Scummy in my opinion.
And a side note: Considering the game started at aprox 1pm (England time) and your first post was at 8.30pm why did you use being asleep as justification for not reading the first phase of voting?
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:33 pm
by Feel It
Are you serious? I'm one the more involved posters so far, and retorting my scum claim with an accusation against me only makes you look even worse, look how quickly and desperate you latched on to champinoman backing you up before you accuse me of buddying.
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:36 pm
by Generic
On the flip side not participating and making a point of saying I won't makes me stand out more. And now you are telling me I have to choose someone in the RVS just to show participation, that's you setting rules to lynch people by, not me. I chose to ignore a phase that was already done and paranoia phase was starting, why turn up late to a party that's already starting to descend into a fight and shout "WHO WANTS TO DANCE!?"
Where I see links generally are when a couple if people think they have something they can exploit to try and push through a mislynch. Two of you really have got issues with my opening post, yet one of you has held off voting me instantly. Would that make it too obvious I wonder.
I have opening suspects, feel free to assume OMGUS btw, but I want to see what you have for your next trick.
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:50 pm
by Gen_Wolf
In post 56, Feel It wrote:Are you serious? I'm one the more involved posters so far, and retorting my scum claim with an accusation against me only makes you look even worse, look how quickly and desperate you latched on to champinoman backing you up before you accuse me of buddying.
Yes I am very serious. Just because you have more posts does not make you more involved. It could just mean your posting more fluff. And yes, why thank you for making me look good as I did not latch on to Champinoman, he agreed with my post and liked it. Is that a scum tell now?
@Feel It: Please show me where I have "desperately latched on to champinoman"?
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:00 pm
by Feel It
Explain yourself, what have I not been involved in, show me what fluff I've posted. No, it's not necessarily a scumtell but you accused me of buddying when you quickly did the same.
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:49 pm
by Vel-Rahn Koon
Vote Count 1.1
James May - 2 (Fegelein, Antagon)
Miss Stranger - 2 (champinoman, Gen_Wolf)
Generic - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Gen_Wolf - 1 (Feel It)
Not Voting - 3 (Generic, James May, Miss Stranger)
5 to Lynch.
Deadline is in (expired on 2013-06-30 08:00:00)
.
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:57 pm
by Generic
Of those who have posted so far, heres my opening feelings...
Fegelein – Nice opening RVS vote. Makes a point of saying miss stranger has been put at L-2 (she hasn’t, gen wolf didn’t unvote first) and says antagon is probably town. I think he is by his posts up to that point, but no explanation to the thought process is no use to anyone. Tries to theorise on the post editing that its concern on appearance, although nobody seems concerned with maybe quizzing her on WHAT was edited. If its something they already know because they saw, use it to explain how she is concerning with appearance. Doesnt press gen wolfs loose and scummy looking comment, just shoots it down with a ‘no’ and moves on. That in itself sits badly for me. Tries to justify the wagon on fegelein, seemingly unconcerned that miss stranger is believed to be at L-2. A jab at nachomamma, with a follow up on what he was meaning (feels like a bit of a prodding pressure play, but could be just to put the seeds of doubt into peoples minds about him).
So far sits in the middle because he seems to not dwell on anything or expand on things unless pressed. Is jabbing at opponents rather than seeking a sound blow. For now he is on the fence for me and i want to see more from him in the analysis.
Miss stranger – nice opening RVS vote. Picks up on antagons RVS vote and questions it a little, unvoting her own choice for the time being (possibly readying an early pressure vote is antagon responds badly?). Must be very new to online mafia if she isn’t aware of the no editing rule that every site i have seen mafia on enforces. Wasnt actually waiting for antagon to respond it seems as she puts down a pressure vote on him (decidedly un RVS voting). Justifies her vote ton antagon, and acknowledges the ninja’ing but not the posts content that ninja’d her. Explains her editing well and defends the spurious push against her for changing votes. #22 is a good post against very flawed logic for her votes. Admits to having some experience which makes me concenred she isn’t aware of the strict no editing rules of mafia. And is hung up on being accused of too much vote hopping, mafia do tend to get hung up on appearance in game but this could also because she thinks she is at L-2 still and is panicking. Her early reads on people seem ok, although im not actually sure at that stage what fegelein has done beyond being behind her vote so is this trying to be nice to someone she fears could push on her later? Follows up with a quick summary of people with reasons, which is much better, but this really needs separating out to individual opinions of the people in my view. In answering fegelein it seemed genuine but also felt like fence sitting.
Feels very n00b in most of what she has done, but i wonder if gen wolf and her are in the process of bussing in some places, although for now she gets a spot on the fence while i figure out how new she really is.
Feel it – scummy opening (only kidding, again nice opening RVS vote). Responds to the RVS vote on him although seems to be running with it in a light hearted way. Doesnt unvote when he votes miss stranger so unsure if he is playing that vote tactically or hasn’t realised the general voting etiquette. Joins in on the early pressure on miss stranger for her post editing error, and this seems to be the basis for being happy to see someone at L-2 (which she isn’t) on page 1. Claims the push was not major, she miss stranger just scum slipped first. Moves on to gen wolfs bigger scum slip but doesn’t vote gor gen wolf, instead deliberates whether to give him the benfit of the doubt or not. Unvotes miss stranger based on her defence, seems legitimate too given his suspicions growing on gen wolf. Good throw down of the gen wolf vote, liking this because it comes at a time when gen wolf has been reactionary and contradictory of everything he is trying to defend. Feel it then goes into a bit more analysis of the few players who have only just started posting.
Im getting more town vibes than scum vibes from him at this point, and not knowing who has what experience here i am leabing towards not being the strongest analyser of games.
Gen wolf – nice, if crude, opening RVS vote. Jumps on miss stranger for her editing error. Even in a newbie game the idea that her editing in that post was to hide a scum slip is a reach, so the justification for this vote feels forced. Bizarre comment to say ‘lets just lynch her and be done with the day’. We have begun to leave RVS well before here, so this comment is loose and not a good sign for gen wolf’s mindset. Now the posting begins to open up as he goes on the attacking defensive, reacting to everybodies comments. Claims he doesn’t like RVS yet antagon tried to drag us out of it very early and long before his comment about wanting a quick lynch and yet returns to that point saying it was a joke. That suggests he doesn’t like RVS yet tried to put us back in it again after we were leaving it. This isn’t looking good right now. The excuse he gives to feel it is AWFUL, now claiming he did it for reaction testing, to END RVS (?) and then pats himself on the back for being the one who ended RVS.... post #31 is damning gen wolf. Jumps in when he thinks nachomamma is talking to him, very jumpy on everything at this point. Moves on to trying to turn the whole thing back on the person by comments such as them wanting to continue RVS and their reaction to the ‘reaction test’. Leaps on the first bit of praise like its water in the desert.
A strong scum read from him right now. There are leads that will come from whether im right on him, but for now he stands out way more than others.
Antagon – interesting vote to open with, especially the reason. I can see it remains harmless as its only a 2nd vote on someone, and although not random is in the spirit of RVS in potentially being jovial (we shall see). Responds he was trying to end RVS, a nice point about RVS being a smokescreen for scum slips so justification for wanting a quick end. Runs with the analysis of sorts from miss stranger and asks two open but still relevant questions.
Leaning town, although would like more from him because he started well but is not pushing heavy analysis yet.
Nachomamma – good opening on his read of the editing fiasco, doesn’t jump to conclusions which i like. A good question to me, but to follow it up with a vote after gen wolfs actions is odd to me, not even waiting for a response to his question. A good follow up to my response, although at this stage everything is a question which isn’t going to get you anywhere without your analysis to back up the importance of the question. Second part of the response to me is insight into his thoughts which is what im looking for. Again no mention of gen wolf at all. Doesnt bite on the fegelein comment which is a positive in my view. The comment was clearly to inspire a reaction and the reaction back from nacho was as sarcastic as the initial prod. Again questioning me, but a good follow up comment on how he does things.
While the vote was very reactionary, he does seem to have analysis in him. He along with champion both will leanb town based on strong analysis but forthcoming posts will sway this one either way for me.
Champinoman – Nice opening RVS vote. backs gen wolfs post #20 even though all explanation to it was shocking. Attempts to put the focus on feel it, but the stick he uses to beat him with is that he voted for miss stranger over the scummier gen wolf... the same gen wolf he liked the post of at the start of this analysis opener. From there the analysis gets stronger, and i like both his pressure on me and his equal pressure on nachomamma. Thats not picking a side, thats analysing both our starts to get to a conclusion of who is up to what. Next post is a total focus on me because he clearly isn’t happy with what i have said OR has seen an opportunity to push on something specific, either way he has reverted from a measured view of the back and forth to picking a side quite easily. Interesting buddying process going on there.
Had a strong town lean followed by a scummy focusing post. Need a bit more from him to know whether he leans town or mafia, but based on a strong analytical post there is promise there so leaning town.
With that in mind,
vote gen wolf
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:02 am
by champinoman
In post 57, Generic wrote:On the flip side not participating and making a point of saying I won't makes me stand out more. And now you are telling me I have to choose someone in the RVS just to show participation, that's you setting rules to lynch people by, not me. I chose to ignore a phase that was already done and paranoia phase was starting, why turn up late to a party that's already starting to descend into a fight and shout "WHO WANTS TO DANCE!?"
Where I see links generally are when a couple if people think they have something they can exploit to try and push through a mislynch. Two of you really have got issues with my opening post, yet one of you has held off voting me instantly. Would that make it too obvious I wonder.
I have opening suspects, feel free to assume OMGUS btw, but I want to see what you have for your next trick.
I never told you you had to vote for somebody. All I have done is question your motive behind not voting for somebody. Your current explanation just isn't very good.
Can you please clarify which 2 people you are referring to?
And you never did explain your erratic sleeping patterns.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:11 am
by Gen_Wolf
In post 59, Feel It wrote:Explain yourself, what have I not been involved in, show me what fluff I've posted. No, it's not necessarily a scumtell but you accused me of buddying when you quickly did the same.
Yes, and I am asking you to show me that exact point where I 'buddied' champ?
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:13 am
by Feel It
Thank you, finally someone appreciating my post. I have to agree, from the reactions it got I would have to place Feel It as my top scum candidate. This based on his extreme focus on this one post which clearly has been shown as a joke and secondly from his pure lack of involvment in other areas of the game. Almost as if he is avoiding the game because he has something to hide.
Jumped to the first person who gave you any backing. Do you have any evidence of your other accusations?
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:28 am
by champinoman
Before I isolate Generic's comments on me I wanted to point out that Miss Stranger didn't actually edit a post. You can't edit a post on this site. So no need to wonder what she actually edited. She actually says this in post #12.
In post 61, Generic wrote:...
Champinoman – Nice opening RVS vote. backs gen wolfs post #20 even though all explanation to it was shocking. Attempts to put the focus on feel it,
but the stick he uses to beat him with is that he voted for miss stranger over the scummier gen wolf... the same gen wolf he liked the post of at the start of this analysis opener
. From there the analysis gets stronger, and i like both his pressure on me and his equal pressure on nachomamma. Thats not picking a side, thats analysing both our starts to get to a conclusion of who is up to what. Next post is a total focus on me because he clearly isn’t happy with what i have said OR has seen an opportunity to push on something specific, either way he has reverted from a measured view of the back and forth to picking a side quite easily. Interesting buddying process going on there.
Had a strong town lean followed by a scummy focusing post. Need a bit more from him to know whether he leans town or mafia, but based on a strong analytical post there is promise there so leaning town.
...
The underlined section has been misinterpreted by you. My interpretation of Gen_Wolf's post #20 is irrelevant in this instant. I was referring to the way Feel It had interpreted it.
It's apparent you clearly don't like me asking you to justify your words though.
You have also said I have picked a side. And that there is buddying going on. Can you please show me where I have done this?
(Unrelated: Impressive post from a phone Generic!)
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:01 am
by Generic
That was the brief moment I got to use my laptop champino :p I thought while I had the chance I would get that down.
I will respond to the questions when I can, not avoiding just back to the phone and my wife is staring at me as I type as I'm meant to be helping fit this new kitchen... Bear with me, and don't let me forget I have questions to answer, some good ones amongst them...
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:59 am
by James May
I'll get onto my reads, I had a full post written up but then I had pressed the post preview, server timed out and my post vanished -_-
Anyhow questions:
Fegelin: Why would you be suspicious of nacho asking questions? It's highly encouraged at this phase to suck the living information out of people.
Generic & Feel It: I want to know why you think that Champin & Gen Wolf are buddying/white knighting. Please enlighten me with quotes on the reasons supporting it.
unrelated to the questionings: nice sarcastic remark on lynching Ms. Stranger gen wolf huehue.
Will rewrite my reads later when I have more time @_@
In post 20, Gen_Wolf wrote:Why bother with day 1. Lets just lynch Miss Stranger now and go from there? We are already onto our first scum.
I thoroughly enjoyed this post because it clearly articulated what I was thinking when I read the exchange between Feel It and Fegelein and was laced with the amount of sarcasm it deserved. And it lead into some interesting responses from Feel It:
In post 26, Feel It wrote:
Lynching anybody this early would be silly, we need to poke and prod and talk and get reactions, see who seems scummiest before making a decision. Not sure if I should give you benefit of the doubt due to your newness or change my vote now tbh.
In post 28, Feel It wrote:VOTE: UNVOTE
I suppose you're right. While your behavior and reaction was odd, it's not as alarming as Gene_Wolf suggesting to lynch you already.
Opportunistic much?
Defending someone who already looks scummy by attacking the attacker. Highlighted as extremely scum in the wiki theory, but I'm totally unsure if I'm supposed to follow that theory word for word. Dully noted. It's also worth to note however that I also find
Feel It
oportunistic, but so was
Gen_Wolf
's suggestion on me. Hence why I think one of them is evil.
In post 23, Fegelein wrote:Allowing wagons to form in RVS is a good method to get the game running. We can gauge reactions from James May.
What's your current read on James May then now that the wagon has dissipated?
Not sure if sarcastic or merely pointing out what I pointed long time ago.
James
is simply not participating, so the wagon is useless. Given there were people with RVS votes on them, most notably me, who also showed early activity, a wagon on one of us would have been better - unless
Antagon
was attempting to provoke him into play. I'm probably overanalysing it. That said, I'm also not happy with
James
's absence because I can't tell for sure if there's two mafia amongst the 7 active or just one (if
In post 30, Generic wrote:Best I don't RVS vote anyone because I saw quite a few votes on specific people and my vote could push them too close up the hammer. For the sake of a joke vote just not worth it.
So you wanted to put a
random
vote
specifically
on someone who already had votes on them? Riiiight.
The next exchange can easily be described as Nachomamma firing wild bullets in the direction of Generic hoping one hits. Looks like they all missed to me.
It is uncomfortable however that
Nachomamma8
simply tossed a brief comment on my defence and then focused on exclusively on
Generic
.
In post 50, champinoman wrote:
Why are these reads important enough for your follow up question considering you have ignored the following read on yourself made a lot earlier?
Antagon
is not the only one here with selective reading.
Spoiler: Feel It
In post 53, Feel It wrote:Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE. I find it interesting that you described myself as opportunistic when I've put pressure and ask questions of suspicious behavior, I'm hardly trying to force a lynch already like Gen_Wolf suggested.
Or you waited a little bit to see which one of us is the easier lynch. Or you were off to reread past games. Or something else out of million possible reasons. Guess I'll never know for sure, but I'll put my thoughts here.
In post 53, Feel It wrote:The exchange between Generic and Nachomamma8 revealed that Generic is cautious and Nacho is fairly aggressive. Neither of them gave much away that I could notice.
Except the fact they were exclusively focused on each other, which isn't the case for
Generic
anymore.
In post 53, Feel It wrote:I think Miss Stranger is leaning town. No I'm not trying to get you to lynch Gen_Wolf he just gets my vote because he seems the most suspicious (which at this point isn't much)
So you basically repeated what I said from your view point. Like me saying, "You say I am town. You say Gen_Wolf is scum. I think it's suspicious." and you saying "Yes, you are town. Yes, Gen_Wolf is scum. No, it's not suspicious."
In post 53, Feel It wrote:Antagon is active lurking, asking about people questions without contributing much himself. Fegelein has done the same but is a bit more involved.
I've not seen broad and argumented analysis from neither of those, nor
Nachomamma8
. I'm waiting for it before I express a stronger opinion.
In post 33, Gen_Wolf wrote:I never said I was worried with how people perceive me? I explained why I did it. Why you putting words in my mouth?
Are you a Generic alt?
No sorry, I saw Gen and assumed it was Gen. Wolf. Didn't realise there was another Gen in terms of Generic playing.
Several other people drawed attention to this line as a "scared mafia" scumslip. I'm not sure how much I'm supposed to dig into such alleged slips. People gave my desire to edit/append posts way more speculation than it deserved. For the record, my previous game allowed that in some limitations for simple edits to avoid doubleposting. For reference:
Tips
(Day 2) As much as posssible, avoid additionals/edits in your post.
Here are some tips:
When you post separately within less than 60 seconds after your last post, the Post Addition line will appear.
When you edit your original post within less than 10 minutes after posting it or , the Edit by line will appear.
To avoid those things above:
0 to 59 seconds. Do not post separate comments. Instead, edit your post, but not in advance mode.
60 seconds to 9 minutes and 59 seconds.
(1) Edit your post for minor edits and modifications. You explain a little bit of your minor edit (if necessary). But avoid the word "Edit: ...".
(2) Post a new comment for major edits and modifications, or if you want to add something completely unrelated to your last post.
10 minutes or longer. Post a new comment all the way even if it is double posting.
I'm not satisfied with his explanation that he wasn't serious, it was an odd and anti-town comment. I looked at some of his other games and I didn't seem him act like that.
If you are not satisfied with the explanation then that means if I hadn't done that RVS would have been longer, would you have liked RVS to be longer? Plus you have given quite a nice reaction to a reaction test.
Define nice. And what was the reaction test? Was I supposed to look like a panicked scum if I were scum, or was the scum supposed to take your words literally that you actually want to lynch me before half the players have posted, and use them to make you look scummy, which is what
In post 20, Gen_Wolf wrote:Why bother with day 1. Lets just lynch Miss Stranger now and go from there? We are already onto our first scum.
I thoroughly enjoyed this post because it clearly articulated what I was thinking when I read the exchange between Feel It and Fegelein and was laced with the amount of sarcasm it deserved. And it lead into some interesting responses from Feel It:
Thank you, finally someone appreciating my post. I have to agree, from the reactions it got I would have to place Feel It as my top scum candidate. This based on his extreme focus on this one post which clearly has been shown as a joke and secondly from his pure lack of involvment in other areas of the game. Almost as if he is avoiding the game because he has something to hide.
Feel It
is scummy to me at this point, but you are the scummier. For me, it's more or less either/or between the two of you right now. You are claiming you said I'm definitely confirmed scum to see if someone would catch up on that and turn you into an easy lynch for saying it. It seems
Feel It
did, but wasn't the only one. If that's what your test intended, it wasn't very good.
In post 53, Feel It wrote:Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE. I find it interesting that you described myself as opportunistic when I've put pressure and ask questions of suspicious behavior, I'm hardly trying to force a lynch already like Gen_Wolf suggested.
(snip)
I think Miss Stranger is leaning town. No I'm not trying to get you to lynch Gen_Wolf he just gets my vote because he seems the most suspicious (which at this point isn't much)
(snip)
Why does being an SE change the fact about the post Feel It? How does that change the game so much that now it is necessary to subject me to your vote?
Miss Stranger has said that one of the two of us are scum, in her opinion and after that post you have now gone and buddied up to her? Hmmm scum much?
As I already said, he is either an oportunistic scum who defends me and tries to feed my suspicions on you, given I'm already hostile, or he simply finds you scummy like most other people, but is the most lynch happy. In the former case, if you get lynched and flip town,
Feel It
will rise significantly higher on my scum meter. In the latter case, you will simply confirm several people's suspicions.
Spoiler: Generic
In post 51, Generic wrote:@missstranger, I wouldn't call it forced passiveness, although I can see why. It's restrained passiveness because I'm aware this is a newbie game and my usual openings in games are more aggressive and antagonistic, because I want emotive responses from people because to me they are the most honest responses.
Okay. Sounds acceptable.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Of those who have posted so far, heres my opening feelings...
Fegelein – Nice opening RVS vote. Makes a point of saying miss stranger has been put at L-2 (she hasn’t, gen wolf didn’t unvote first) and says antagon is probably town. I think he is by his posts up to that point, but no explanation to the thought process is no use to anyone. Tries to theorise on the post editing that its concern on appearance, although nobody seems concerned with maybe quizzing her on WHAT was edited. If its something they already know because they saw, use it to explain how she is concerning with appearance. Doesnt press gen wolfs loose and scummy looking comment, just shoots it down with a ‘no’ and moves on. That in itself sits badly for me. Tries to justify the wagon on fegelein, seemingly unconcerned that miss stranger is believed to be at L-2. A jab at nachomamma, with a follow up on what he was meaning (feels like a bit of a prodding pressure play, but could be just to put the seeds of doubt into peoples minds about him).
So far sits in the middle because he seems to not dwell on anything or expand on things unless pressed. Is jabbing at opponents rather than seeking a sound blow. For now he is on the fence for me and i want to see more from him in the analysis.
Opening RVS vote is simply a vote and means nothing by itself. I was at L-2 with 3 people voting on me (
champinoman
,
Feel It
,
Gen_Wolf
). Other than that, it sounds about right.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Miss stranger – nice opening RVS vote. Picks up on antagons RVS vote and questions it a little, unvoting her own choice for the time being (possibly readying an early pressure vote is antagon responds badly?). Must be very new to online mafia if she isn’t aware of the no editing rule that every site i have seen mafia on enforces. Wasnt actually waiting for antagon to respond it seems as she puts down a pressure vote on him (decidedly un RVS voting). Justifies her vote ton antagon, and acknowledges the ninja’ing but not the posts content that ninja’d her.
Actually he responded in the ninja post, as did
Fegelein
later on. My concerns were rooted in the fact the wagon was on an inactive person, something I said in post 22.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Explains her editing well and defends the spurious push against her for changing votes. #22 is a good post against very flawed logic for her votes. Admits to having some experience which makes me concenred she isn’t aware of the strict no editing rules of mafia.
Addressed the issue already. I honestly wasn't aware. My experience is down to playing 1 game as a late replacement (lost as "paladin"/"town doctor", although if the rest of the town followed my guidelines before I died it would have been won), 1 as scum (lost) and 1 early mod abandoned game. I could link to them, although that would take the mistique away from "Miss Stranger" and be very bad for my image :3
In post 61, Generic wrote:And is hung up on being accused of too much vote hopping, mafia do tend to get hung up on appearance in game but this could also because she thinks she is at L-2 still and is panicking.
Hung up? Yay, I have a life and need shopping and food. Surprise! Accusation of hopping is pretty faux reasoning to begin with. I didn't "hop", I started with a joke vote, then a semi-serious, but mostly serious vote, after which I unvoted to get more reads. Changing a joke vote (on a literally random name) is in no way hopping, and calling out on it is scummy. Had I had an actual motivation to vote
Antagon
outright, I wouldn't have voted
Gen_Wolf
to begin with, seeing how
Antagon
wasn't pushing on me at all.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Her early reads on people seem ok, although im not actually sure at that stage what fegelein has done beyond being behind her vote so is this trying to be nice to someone she fears could push on her later?
Fegelin
appeared more town not because he defended me (he didn't), but rather because he chose not to attack me on false basis (hopping vote which didn't happen and scumslip nobody could point out). Rather, he lazily stiffled
Gen_Wolf
's wagon on me, but didn't make oportunistic moves like
Feel It
did. Keep in mind this was an early observation and could be changed at any point depending on his future posts. Still waiting a longer text from him.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Follows up with a quick summary of people with reasons, which is much better, but this really needs separating out to individual opinions of the people in my view. In answering fegelein it seemed genuine but also felt like fence sitting.
Will be done as soon as I have information and time.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Feels very n00b in most of what she has done, but i wonder if gen wolf and her are in the process of bussing in some places, although for now she gets a spot on the fence while i figure out how new she really is.
Thanks I guess? -_- I already told you how new I am. I hope that helps. Not sure if I should take the bussing point seriously. If I get lynched and flip scum it won't make
Gen_Wolf
look much better, but would make him a very strong suspect for bussing (like he psychically knew I was scum based on a nonexistent slip). On the other hand, if
Gen_Wolf
gets lynched and turns scum, nothing about me would really change for the positive at all. It would be a pointless bus that only does harm to a hypothetical scum team between me and him.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Feel it – scummy opening (only kidding, again nice opening RVS vote). Responds to the RVS vote on him although seems to be running with it in a light hearted way. Doesnt unvote when he votes miss stranger so unsure if he is playing that vote tactically or hasn’t realised the general voting etiquette. Joins in on the early pressure on miss stranger for her post editing error, and this seems to be the basis for being happy to see someone at L-2 (which she isn’t) on page 1.
Which I was on page 1. His accusation of "vote hopping" instantly brought scum feelings because one doesn't hop from a meaningless vote.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Claims the push was not major, she miss stranger just scum slipped first. Moves on to gen wolfs bigger scum slip but doesn’t vote gor gen wolf, instead deliberates whether to give him the benfit of the doubt or not. Unvotes miss stranger based on her defence, seems legitimate too given his suspicions growing on gen wolf. Good throw down of the gen wolf vote, liking this because it comes at a time when gen wolf has been reactionary and contradictory of everything he is trying to defend. Feel it then goes into a bit more analysis of the few players who have only just started posting.
He thinks
Gen_Wolf
is scummy, but completely changes his mind about me based on my defence. Either I'm very convincing, or he's trying to gain my trust and direct my vote towards
Gen_Wolf
.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Im getting more town vibes than scum vibes from him at this point, and not knowing who has what experience here i am leabing towards not being the strongest analyser of games.
Do you get town vibes because you both find the same person scummy? What scum vibes do you get?
In post 61, Generic wrote:Gen wolf – nice, if crude, opening RVS vote. Jumps on miss stranger for her editing error. Even in a newbie game the idea that her editing in that post was to hide a scum slip is a reach, so the justification for this vote feels forced.
And yet you were one of the people who were alarmed that I was unaware I can't edit posts, and that I could possibly hide something I wanted to edit away. You find it forced, but you find me alarming. This contradiction feels uncomfortable.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Bizarre comment to say ‘lets just lynch her and be done with the day’. We have begun to leave RVS well before here, so this comment is loose and not a good sign for gen wolf’s mindset. Now the posting begins to open up as he goes on the attacking defensive, reacting to everybodies comments. Claims he doesn’t like RVS yet antagon tried to drag us out of it very early and long before his comment about wanting a quick lynch and yet returns to that point saying it was a joke. That suggests he doesn’t like RVS yet tried to put us back in it again after we were leaving it.
Push it back in how?
In post 61, Generic wrote:This isn’t looking good right now. The excuse he gives to feel it is AWFUL, now claiming he did it for reaction testing, to END RVS (?) and then pats himself on the back for being the one who ended RVS.... post #31 is damning gen wolf. Jumps in when he thinks nachomamma is talking to him, very jumpy on everything at this point. Moves on to trying to turn the whole thing back on the person by comments such as them wanting to continue RVS and their reaction to the ‘reaction test’. Leaps on the first bit of praise like its water in the desert.
A strong scum read from him right now. There are leads that will come from whether im right on him, but for now he stands out way more than others.
Yes, he's scummy. What do you think it would happen if he flips scum, and what if he flips town?
In post 61, Generic wrote:Antagon – interesting vote to open with, especially the reason. I can see it remains harmless as its only a 2nd vote on someone, and although not random is in the spirit of RVS in potentially being jovial (we shall see). Responds he was trying to end RVS, a nice point about RVS being a smokescreen for scum slips so justification for wanting a quick end. Runs with the analysis of sorts from miss stranger and asks two open but still relevant questions.
Leaning town, although would like more from him because he started well but is not pushing heavy analysis yet.
I need a deeper post from him before I can comment. Null.
In post 61, Generic wrote:Nachomamma – good opening on his read of the editing fiasco, doesn’t jump to conclusions which i like. A good question to me, but to follow it up with a vote after gen wolfs actions is odd to me, not even waiting for a response to his question. A good follow up to my response, although at this stage everything is a question which isn’t going to get you anywhere without your analysis to back up the importance of the question. Second part of the response to me is insight into his thoughts which is what im looking for. Again no mention of gen wolf at all. Doesnt bite on the fegelein comment which is a positive in my view. The comment was clearly to inspire a reaction and the reaction back from nacho was as sarcastic as the initial prod. Again questioning me, but a good follow up comment on how he does things.
While the vote was very reactionary, he does seem to have analysis in him. He along with champion both will leanb town based on strong analysis but forthcoming posts will sway this one either way for me.
So you're also concerned he's digging on you and ignoring others. Good to know. How valid do you think his attacks are? Actual analysis or phantom accusations? (i.e. ones that aren't real, but made up to trick people into thinking you look scummy)
In post 61, Generic wrote:Champinoman – Nice opening RVS vote. backs gen wolfs post #20 even though all explanation to it was shocking. Attempts to put the focus on feel it, but the stick he uses to beat him with is that he voted for miss stranger over the scummier gen wolf... the same gen wolf he liked the post of at the start of this analysis opener. From there the analysis gets stronger, and i like both his pressure on me and his equal pressure on nachomamma. Thats not picking a side, thats analysing both our starts to get to a conclusion of who is up to what. Next post is a total focus on me because he clearly isn’t happy with what i have said OR has seen an opportunity to push on something specific, either way he has reverted from a measured view of the back and forth to picking a side quite easily. Interesting buddying process going on there.
Had a strong town lean followed by a scummy focusing post. Need a bit more from him to know whether he leans town or mafia, but based on a strong analytical post there is promise there so leaning town.
So he noticed
Feel It
's oportunism, which is what made me also doubt him. Why is everyone ignoring the fact
Feel It
went from scum read on me to town read on me based on a couple posts? He either didn't believe I was scum to begin with (or knew it) and was simply hopping on a forming wagon, or I'm too convincing and
Gen_Wolf
is too scummy, though he said almost the same thing as
Feel It
said about me. Who else thinks one of them is quite certainly mafia?
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:18 am
by Feel It
Miss Stranger, it's not opportunism, if I was an opportunist I would have just kept my vote on you and pushed you harder, you already had three votes, instead I turned my focus on a player with no votes or attention who made a comment that stood out like a sore thumb. His reactions were even worse, he got all jumpy and defensive and claimed it was a reaction test and the people who fell for it were scum? That I'm not contributing? His accusations are weak and reeks of desperation and nervousness. If the guy is town I'm sorry but he's acted very scummy so far in.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:32 am
by Miss Stranger
Feel It
, you are contributing and I wholeheartedly agree that
Gen_Wolf
is scummy. You are totally right about him. All that makes me uncomfortable was that first you blatantly accused me of hopping, and then it's like it never happened. See, like this:
Feel It: Changing your vote so much? I'm changing mine on you.
Gen_Wolf: You want to edit your posts? Changing votes? Lynch.
Fegel: She's fine with 3 votes.
Gen_Wolf: No, she's scum. Lynch her now and don't bother with D1, we'll have one less scum on D2.
Fegel: No.
Me: I didn't change votes, first one was totally random. I didn't scumslip, I just didn't want to doublepost.
Feel It: Miss, that's reasonable. I'm unvoting. OMG Gen_Wolf, you basically claimed mafia.
See what I mean? If I got lynched, you'd both look bad for pushing me for no real reason. Now if
Gen_Wolf
gets lynched as town, everyone would just know he was scummy as hell and you,
Feel It
, would pass under the radar. That's not to say I'm sure you're scum, hell
Gen_Wolf
IS painfully scummy, but you still definitely are on my suspect list should he flip town.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:45 am
by Fegelein
Holy crap, it's a paragraph fest already :/. I sort of scrolled through it though, have the basic idea of what's going on.
I voted James May because RVS. My read on him atm is null, leaning scum because of lack of contributions and his first post was backseat scumhunting.
As for Nacho, I think he might be scum. He's sort of sitting back and just asking questions instead of providing real counter arguments against people.
It might just be me, but Gen_Wolf isn't that scummy.
Generic is Null.
Champinoman is Town to me.
Miss Stranger could go either way, leaning Town.
Feel It could go either way too, finding it hard to get a read on him.
, you are contributing and I wholeheartedly agree that
Gen_Wolf
is scummy. You are totally right about him. All that makes me uncomfortable was that first you blatantly accused me of hopping, and then it's like it never happened. See, like this:
Feel It: Changing your vote so much? I'm changing mine on you.
Gen_Wolf: You want to edit your posts? Changing votes? Lynch.
Fegel: She's fine with 3 votes.
Gen_Wolf: No, she's scum. Lynch her now and don't bother with D1, we'll have one less scum on D2.
Fegel: No.
Me: I didn't change votes, first one was totally random. I didn't scumslip, I just didn't want to doublepost.
Feel It: Miss, that's reasonable. I'm unvoting. OMG Gen_Wolf, you basically claimed mafia.
See what I mean? If I got lynched, you'd both look bad for pushing me for no real reason. Now if
Gen_Wolf
gets lynched as town, everyone would just know he was scummy as hell and you,
Feel It
, would pass under the radar. That's not to say I'm sure you're scum, hell
Gen_Wolf
IS painfully scummy, but you still definitely are on my suspect list should he flip town.
Yeah, if Gen got lynched and he flipped town I would very likely be lynched d2, but even then it doesn't really make sense. If I was a maf, why would i draw attention to myself and push a lynch on a guy who was passing under the radar, who I knew was innocent, and when he got lynched and flipped town everyone would be after my blood? It's illogical and bad mafia play, I'm only changing my vote and pushing against Gen_Wolf because he seems the most scummy to me.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:54 am
by Fegelein
Never do that Feel, it's WIFOM. Scum can play anyway they want.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:05 am
by James May
Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynch that costed me the game >_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)
(only kidding, again nice opening RVS vote). Responds to the RVS vote on him although seems to be running with it in a light hearted way. Doesnt unvote when he votes miss stranger so unsure if he is playing that vote tactically or hasn’t realised the general voting etiquette. Joins in on the early pressure on miss stranger for her post editing error, and this seems to be the basis for being happy to see someone at L-2 (which she isn’t) on page 1. Claims the push was not major, she miss stranger just scum slipped first. Moves on to gen wolfs bigger scum slip but doesn’t vote gor gen wolf, instead deliberates whether to give him the benfit of the doubt or not. Unvotes miss stranger based on her defence, seems legitimate too given his suspicions growing on gen wolf. Good throw down of the gen wolf vote, liking this because it comes at a time when gen wolf has been reactionary and contradictory of everything he is trying to defend. Feel it then goes into a bit more analysis of the few players who have only just started posting.