Mini 1555 Board Game UPick Mafia--Game Over!


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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:18 pm

Post by morph the cat »

*He was a useless lurksack townie
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:24 pm

Post by morph the cat »

Also Dixon Hill Hard Boiled, which Tammy also played. All 3 of the games I've played with baldeagle, he was town.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:33 pm

Post by Hadrian »

In post 49, morph the cat wrote:
In post 47, Hadrian wrote:If that's been ffery, I like the early posting. Morph - how much experience do you have with bald eagle? Besides marketplace of course.
It's both of us posting, and we've been in mind sync mode, we've often ahd to cancel posts since the other posted it first.

We have one other game with bald; we was a lurksack useless townie. "Thad's Neighbor Mafia" in coney island.

Hmm...pretty sure I like that too.

Okay thanks. I recently went over some baldeagle meta in zach's game where nacho also explained his meta. It won't be useful until he posts more though.

I was more interested in him town reading you guys early based on meta.

~~~~

Baldeagle - can you explain your early meta town read on morph?

~~~~

Okay really crashing now.
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:56 pm

Post by Porkens »

Ugh. I'll be honest and say that I'm quite dissapointed more people haven't embraced the idea of creating and following an agreement that would elevate the state of the game, get rid of the lurkers and other chaff as a priority, and play well as a team. As I said before, since coming back, I haven't seen a town "work together." If this game goes down with the same...

"I didn't say that, you are retarted,"
"oh but my meta,"
"buzzword buzzword slap fight slap fight"
"my town/scum game is so good/bad I can't be town/scum this game,"
"he's always shit let's let him live forever,"
"my scum hunting is so fucking good I can win this game by myself"

...then I'm not going to have fun.

To be honest, I care much less about which side wins as long as its a good, fun, thought provoking game. That can't happen when their are assholes and lurkers everywhere.

If we all agree to lynch people who make the game suck, the game will be better.

However it happens, i propose that we all agree to play as attentively, logically, and reapectully as we can. Systematize that or just make it happen by custom, andd ill be happy. However, If you all just want to wallow in the same paranoid, one-upsmanshipping bluffing posturing bullshit, there's not much I can add.
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:58 pm

Post by Porkens »

In post 53, Porkens wrote:Ugh. I'll be honest and say that I'm quite dissapointed more people haven't embraced the idea of creating and following an agreement that would elevate the state of the game, get rid of the lurkers and other chaff as a priority, and play well as a team. As I said before, since coming back, I haven't seen a town "work together." If this game goes down with the same...

"I didn't say that, you are retarted,"
"oh but my meta,"
"buzzword buzzword slap fight slap fight"
"my town/scum game is so good/bad I can't be town/scum this game,"
"he's always shit let's let him live forever,"
"my scum hunting is so fucking good I can win this game by myself"

...then I'm not going to have fun.

To be honest, I care much less about which side wins as long as its a good, fun, thought provoking game. That can't happen when their are assholes and lurkers everywhere.

If we all agree to lynch people who make the game suck, the game will be better.

However it happens, i propose that we all agree to play as attentively, logically, and respectfully as we can
and lynch those that can't/don't.
Systematize that or just make it happen by custom, andd ill be happy. However, If you all just want to wallow in the same paranoid, one-upsmanshipping bluffing posturing bullshit, there's not much I can add.
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:07 pm

Post by awesomeusername »

Hey everyone.

I've never seen this charter idea before, but I think I agree with the dissenters. In short, I think the charter will just cause the weakest players to be eliminated first, and while I suppose that's good for endgame, I'd much, much rather lynch scum than just weak players.

I kinda like the general idea though, so I'd like to suggest a compromise.

What if we gave the sole power of lynching to a generally-agreed upon townbloc? We could build the townbloc based on pro-town play, as usual, but avoid the nitpicky legalistic rules of the charter, and poor players would be punished by having essentially no say in the lynch. This way we could punish anti-town play without lynching people without good reason. I don't think scum have a larger chance of getting a free ride out of this than normal, and their manipulation is minimized. Thoughts?

@Porkens: Are you suggesting hyper-policy lynching or am I misunderstanding you? I can understand your desire to play a thought-provoking game, but you do need to play to your win condition...
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:24 pm

Post by Porkens »

Actually, i think you've paraphrased the end goal of the charter. And yes, this is trying something different and new. I think not having the rules spelled out will just lead to more chaos, though. I think in negotiating the rules of the charter up front has a lot of value, and attempts to manipulate would be obvious and could be called out.

"Weak" players are just as likely to be scum as town, but like I said, drafting the charter is part of the idea, so we can fiddle with the lynch order to something that everyone can agree to.

T those of you saying "but my scum hunting works for me" I'm not suggesting you abandon your method. I'm saying this is an opportunity to help everyone scum hunt more effectively and for you to get other people on the same page you are on!
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:32 pm

Post by Porkens »

Awesome, I firmly believe that if the town could come to the table with open minds and go through this process, working as a team, we would roll the scum, so I am absolutely playing to my win condition. Don't get me wrong, I won't throw the game on principle, but lynch all the anti-town players (because of lurking, being shitheada, ignoring the game, etc? ) first? Hell yes.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:37 pm

Post by Porkens »

You know what we need? A rubric. A scum rubric. Holy shit this is a good idea.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:38 pm

Post by Kdub »

I mean, the charter seems like a noble idea in principle, but I just don't think adopting it is going to result in much different outcomes than without it. It basically amounts to an elaborate way of policy lynching useless/lurking players.

The townbloc idea is something that naturally happens quite often, especially in larger games. The problem is that everyone has one vote, and if you have dissenters, you're going to get drawn-out arguments, charter or not.
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:42 pm

Post by Porkens »

I think that all the players, working together on a project will bring out a lot. The charter is that project. in a way mass policy lunches, but first, and more importantly, I'm suggesting that we, as a group,
define
our policies for this game.
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:43 pm

Post by Porkens »

It would also force scum to be more active in order to avoid being lynched as a lurker/useless. More active scum is easier to catch.
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:43 pm

Post by SpyreX »

Porkens wrote:Since I've come back to the game, I haven't seen towns that work together. Granted, it's just been a few games, but the things that consistently rule the games (especially the early game) are personality, reputations, and meta. Every post is a one-up, every argument degenerates into personal insults. It A) makes the game not fun, and B) benefits only the scum. Every player is too concerned with being right and showing off their big scum-hunting dick. Lurkers and no-content posters are allowed to linger to lylo because "that's how they play." I believe if we treat this game like a business, and make the first priority to work together, two things will happen. 1) the chaff will get lynched and the game will get better. 2) the scum will be forced to play in a pro-town manner. That means more bussing, more lynching of scum. These two changes will lead to more town victories.
I love this a million times.

Something like a "charter" is a very twisted sword - the actual speaking of it makes it almost impossible to do, but the discussion of it makes the end result happen anyways. Three pages in and I'm happier about how this is going then many games I've been in a while.

Because, at heart, its not about the agreement or disagreement, its about the process behind it. Which is why even at this point I can do something like this and the fact its happening now makes my heart aflutter.

Town as hell tm:


Quil - This is looking at an idea, not making a snap judgement, weighing the bad versus the good and cutting to some really important parts of it right out of the gate. Especially explaining with words why things are done and the fact at the end of the day round one is "people playing like town" versus "people playing like scum" versus "town" and "scum".
Hadrian - ohh hey look open dissent in such a way
that points to exactly what its trying to accomplish.
SO GUESS WHAT YOU ARE IN WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT BUDDY.
Porkens - duh

Town:

morph - I like most of what I see. However, versus the others this could be faked some depending on how things shake out but thats a tiny bit of paranoia.
kdub - Its the agreeing with most every word thats said. Mirror-ego syndrome paranoia keeps from the above.

Probably Town but makes me paranoid as shit:

Awesomeusername - I keep looking at post 55 and I can't put my finger on exactly what it is that makes me want to sneak up behind him with a garrote but there's something there. Something...sinister. But I am old and, as said, paranoid.

Probably Scum:

HighShroomish - I'm not taking the time to go through and look deeply at his games, but the whole idea of "scum totally play like town you guys" is so foreign to the wasteland I live in and this is just the right kind of alarm bells I'm not stoked. I only say probably because

Actually needs to be turned into fertilizer because jesus:

1baldeagle1 - I dont even know where to begin. If I were to measure the desire to kill versus the amount of words in that post somehow the desire to kill is actually HIGHER then the number of words. Thats a feat in and of itself. The fact "lurksack-town meta" was already brought up is a giant warning red klaxon that this shit needs to meet its friend the dodo right fast.
hiplop - This will be referred to from now until forever as the "inverse Quil". On top of not actually being useful when being a real vote, its a snap dismissal under the guise of it being actually bad.

Now, in that perfect world I dream of when I go to sleep?

Those 6 names in the top would shake the shit out of every name not mentioned while manically murdering the hell out of the bottom of that list. If, in those three names, there isn't a scum I'd be surprised.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:46 pm

Post by SpyreX »

And in P-Edit Land:
I mean, the charter seems like a noble idea in principle, but I just don't think adopting it is going to result in much different outcomes than without it.
It basically amounts to an elaborate way of policy lynching useless/lurking players.
See. You're right. However, I will put my hand on a stack of bibles and say this to the heavens themselves:

Thats not a bad thing. Its god damn natural.

What seems to happen (and seems to happen more lately) is somehow that gets swept away under the slapfights until you look at midgame and just say shit because you realize you're now on lord of the flies island.

Its the inverse of a tried and true scum-maneuver: kill the brain. Not necessarily the towniest tm or suspected prs. Kill the ones that are progressing the game forward. You hit them, and soon the dominoes fall and you just watch the world burn.
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:48 pm

Post by morph the cat »

In post 62, SpyreX wrote:I'm not taking the time to go through and look deeply at his games, but the whole idea of "scum totally play like town you guys" is so foreign to the wasteland I live in
I can help you here. Shroomish is a player from my homesite that just joined mafiascum. He's new, but has at least one solid 13p theme game under his belt. If you care for more details, you can ask, otherwise I won't clog it up and this ought to suffice.
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:52 pm

Post by SpyreX »

I'd actually like to see it. Because, in my heart of hearts, either he's been lucky or that's total bullshit. (I looked but didn't see? a finished game)
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:58 pm

Post by morph the cat »

Two completed 13p themed games at my homesite (We use mafiascum format and setups though, they're comparable, and he was town in both)

http://www.sixprizes.com/forums/threads ... fia.11006/

http://www.sixprizes.com/forums/threads ... win.10863/
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:00 pm

Post by morph the cat »

Part of my concern about the charter idea is knowing that it would give scum-me something town-looking to do for a huge chunk of day 1 and that discussing tweaks, and whether or when to abort the idea would do the same for smaller chunks of future days.

I'm a player who is not comfortable with scum roles. I'm probably the kind of scum player that porkens hopes to flush out with this idea, but I think it would do the opposite with me.
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:08 pm

Post by Porkens »

I very much appreciate everyone on this page, just to be clear :)

Morph, you may be right, but I think the benefit of everyone doing something pro-town together outweighs the risk of giving scum something town-looking to do for a while.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:10 pm

Post by Porkens »

Something like a "charter" is a very twisted sword - the actual speaking of it makes it almost impossible to do, but the discussion of it makes the end result happen anyways. Three pages in and I'm happier about how this is going then many games I've been in a while.
Well put!
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:13 pm

Post by Porkens »

Well, actually, I agree with the second part, but why doesspeakingof it make it almost impossible to do?
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:18 pm

Post by SpyreX »

Part of my concern about the charter idea is knowing that it would give scum-me something town-looking to do for a huge chunk of day 1 and that discussing tweaks, and whether or when to abort the idea would do the same for smaller chunks of future days.

I'm a player who is not comfortable with scum roles. I'm probably the kind of scum player that porkens hopes to flush out with this idea, but I think it would do the opposite with me.
Needless to say I'm lord of the townbloc TM so this is a little jaded but lets play hypothetical in the above.

Lets assume this is a normal setup 10/3 style. Lets assume that list of names I gave as town is what starts the holy crusade.

You're scum. You're in the townbloc yay! Now you spend d1 carefully tweaking and talking about the charter. Meanwhile, your bro's are not in the bloc and up for murder. So now, you're already looking at the squeeze because you know while short term you're safe long term you've got to plan for "when there's 6 of us left how the hell do I convince them I'm the towniest town in the bloc".

Lets say there's two scum there and its an even more wonderful world. Night comes and you've got your NK. Now, on top of everything else - do you weaken the bloc? Well..maybe? How do you direct them away from your third bro in such a way that doesn't paint a big ass target on one or, god forbid, both of you? Do you kill outside of it? Now, even if they were wrong about both of you (because you played so town) - you're now killing targets the town wants gone anyways.

Where it falls apart is if ALL the scum are in it. Thats a bad world. But, pragmatism says if all the scums play town enough that holy fire purging wins them the game then I can't even be mad.
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:20 pm

Post by SpyreX »

Well, actually, I agree with the second part, but why doesspeakingof it make it almost impossible to do?
Because of whats happening here, in various forms. If its not "NO YOURE NOT MY REAL DAD" or "IM TOO KOOL FOR YOUR RULES *smokes cigarette*" it turns into "Well article 4 section b says the when it should say and we should take this to committe and who adds new players who watches the watchmen???"

And before you know it, someone peed the bed.
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:22 pm

Post by morph the cat »

In post 71, SpyreX wrote:
Part of my concern about the charter idea is knowing that it would give scum-me something town-looking to do for a huge chunk of day 1 and that discussing tweaks, and whether or when to abort the idea would do the same for smaller chunks of future days.

I'm a player who is not comfortable with scum roles. I'm probably the kind of scum player that porkens hopes to flush out with this idea, but I think it would do the opposite with me.
Needless to say I'm lord of the townbloc TM so this is a little jaded but lets play hypothetical in the above.

Lets assume this is a normal setup 10/3 style. Lets assume that list of names I gave as town is what starts the holy crusade.

You're scum. You're in the townbloc yay! Now you spend d1 carefully tweaking and talking about the charter. Meanwhile, your bro's are not in the bloc and up for murder. So now, you're already looking at the squeeze because you know while short term you're safe long term you've got to plan for "when there's 6 of us left how the hell do I convince them I'm the towniest town in the bloc".

Lets say there's two scum there and its an even more wonderful world. Night comes and you've got your NK. Now, on top of everything else - do you weaken the bloc? Well..maybe? How do you direct them away from your third bro in such a way that doesn't paint a big ass target on one or, god forbid, both of you? Do you kill outside of it? Now, even if they were wrong about both of you (because you played so town) - you're now killing targets the town wants gone anyways.

Where it falls apart is if ALL the scum are in it. Thats a bad world. But, pragmatism says if all the scums play town enough that holy fire purging wins them the game then I can't even be mad.
Oh man. I don't even want to bring up past morph scum games. I don't think we've ever lost a scumbuddy in our scumgames.
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:26 pm

Post by morph the cat »

In post 73, morph the cat wrote:I don't think we've ever lost a scumbuddy in our scumgames.
We have not, but I fail to see how that's relevant.
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