XnadrojX's Mini Normal Review the Second

[mykonian]

I want the RB to go. I feel it's taking a sledgehammer to not such a solid town.

Like as a compromise, bc we should move there someday, you could make it a limited shot information role, but I really think you should get out of the towns power's way and actually let them do their work somewhat unobstructed to end up with a fair game. If it were a full cop and a full tracker her in stead, or if there were a protective role in the mix, I could see the lure of a full scum roleblocker. Here I think it's way too generous.

[mhsmith0]

I want the RB to go. I feel it's taking a sledgehammer to not such a solid town.

No.

3-Shot Gunsmith
Odd-Night Cop
2-Shot Tracker
Miller Doublevoter
VT x 6


Mafia Ascetic
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

is something that I would EXPLICITLY reject as unbalanced (town has three claimable roles that are very unlikely to get mislynched, a 4th [tracker] that adds a bit, and on top of that the GS/cop can both get N1 investigative results if scum take a poor N1 shot). If you and mastina prefer that setup, then please find a third reviewer. I'm sorry for possibly being a jerk about it, but I simply don't agree that such a setup is at all fair to the scum team.

I'd MAYBE think about it being ok to cut the tracker entirely and do

3-Shot Gunsmith
Odd-Night Cop
Miller Doublevoter
VT x 7


Mafia Ascetic
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

I'd intuitively be a bit uncomfortable with it, but scum at least does have the ascetic to potentially make people think there's a roleblocker of sorts, which is at least something that might help, so I'd at least be willing to discuss that.

Would be fairly swingy with town power strongly in two slots' hands, but I think that's probably ok given how strong GS/cop can be.

[mastina]

3-Shot Gunsmith
Odd-Night Cop
Miller Doublevoter
VT x 7

Mafia Ascetic
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

I'd actually be okay with this setup.

The town has three very strong roles. The gunsmith is three-shot, but realistically you're not going to get much more than that in a mini anyway so it's pretty strong. The cop is odd-night, which realistically is probably only two investigations. In spite of that, having two VERY strong investigation roles helps the town a lot. The ascetic gives the scum some defense against the roles, and then the scum also have their nightkill, which in this setup is disproportionately powerful thanks to a lack of roles to stop them from killing the PRs. This is not a bad thing! (The only bad thing is if the ascetic chooses to publicly claim when the miller also does so, but even there with a cop/gunsmith combo the town may assume both are town negative utilities.)

I would admit the setup is still

slightly

swingy, because if the town loses one/two/all of their PRs early they're in for a very rough ride, and if they don't lose their PRs then the scum are going to face some rather nasty POE, but I don't think the swing can ever be eliminated and this level of swing is definitely acceptable to me. I genuinely think that this proposed setup has around 50-50 odds for each side.

[mhsmith0]

I'll research strong investigative vs basically nothing setups historically but it makes me VERY uncomfortable.

[mykonian]

shrug, go ahead then.

[Nexus]

hello?

[XnadrojX]

Bump?

[mastina]

52 is my latest thoughts and still applies for me.

[XnadrojX]

Currently only waiting on smith and mykonian to decide whether the rb is necessary or not

[mhsmith0]

I think I'd compromise on

3-Shot Gunsmith
Odd-Night Cop
Miller Doublevoter
VT x 7

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

MAYBE even nerf to odd-night roleblocker to match the cop. But ascetic alone gives the scum too little night power against what town has (and ascetic is even swingier than roleblocker and involves way more luck and way less actual good play wrt night actions). Personally I think we're giving town too much help even with that, but towns have a losing record in games I've reviewed and I don't mind biasing a bit in the pro-town direction in case my radar is a bit off.

[mastina]

Full roleblocker against only two investigatives is a definitive no-go for me. The scum have a nightkill with absolutely nothing stopping them from utilizing it. Give them a roleblocker and they are capable of entirely shutting down the town's power outside of the miller double-voter on night one. Night one, the scum can turn the game into basically mountainous. That would not be okay with me. I don't think an odd-night restriction to gate the roleblocker would be much better, either. Maybe X-shot roleblocker, with X being either 1 or maybe (MAYBE) 2.

The game has three, I repeat, THREE town roles. No method of stopping a nightkill. And we all know just how notoriously scumsided mountainous games are. The town NEEDS those roles. Scum can have

some

defense against them. But they don't need much.

[mhsmith0]

I think scum mainly needs protection against a night one town steamroll (two investigations, and a bad scum shot). Maybe just a one shot Roleblocker and daytalk to go along with the ascetic? I feel like that's going pretty townsided (each town PR is actively useful and clearing as opposed to trash like a one shot rolecop, a fruit vendor, etc etc etc) but I GUESS I can live w that as a compromise.

[mastina]

Giving them a 1x roleblocker and the ascetic is still giving them too much immunity. One or the other is what I would say.

[mhsmith0]

Ascetic is nearly useless, and is basically a RNG element added to the game (unless scum claim it which actually bizarrely happens). I can live with a two shot Roleblocker and day talk and no ascetic I guess.

[XnadrojX]

Mykonian?

[XnadrojX]

It appears that my reviewer is dead

[XnadrojX]

It appears that my reviewer is dead

[XnadrojX]

Oops double posted soz

[mykonian]

Ascetic is nearly useless, and is basically a RNG element added to the game (unless scum claim it which actually bizarrely happens). I can live with a two shot Roleblocker and day talk and no ascetic I guess.

If this is the route you'd go with, I could live with that.

[mykonian]

I think we'll need roles then!

Rather awkwardly I won't be here in the coming week and a half. I hope you can do with just 2 reviewers actually signing off on the setup. I think the more heavy lifting has been done for this game now...

[mastina]

Yeah, need roles reposted and then we can sign off.

[XnadrojX]

3-Shot Gunsmith
Odd-Night Cop
Miller Doublevoter
VT x 7

Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon


Was the agreed on setup?
It certainly doesn't look boring to host.

[mastina]

That was the consensus, yes. Post rules, post roles, and you're basically good to go for me.

[XnadrojX]

Roles:

3-Shot Gunsmith
Odd-Night Cop
Miller Doublevoter
VT x 7

Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon



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[XnadrojX]

Bump?