Mafiascum.net

In post 41, Boonskiies wrote:Like it's just a seraph knight that if it targets scum, investigative immune. The change to seraph knight has made it incredibly simple.

Which isn't a whitelisted role. How's this an argument in favour of a role you want to put into a normal?

greylist roles are fine, but have as a requirement that they mechanics they bring are normal in essence. That's not what's happening here. It's trying to spice up a normal with some crazy cool role.

I don't really see this role as crazy, though, is what I'm stating. I actually think this would be considered my least crazy setup once.

If the role was just seraph knight, I feel like it would go through, (as the variant role, of course) is what the argument essentially was. I feel this as a really subtle role that the setup would be perfect for and that is perfect for what that grey listed allowance could be.

I feel like the game revolves most around the Gunsmith, really.

It's similar to like role stopper and loyal bodyguard, which are both normal roles now that Loyal is normal. I see it like:

X + Y = Z

X in this case would be Loyal, Y the target, and Z if no result is shown or not.

If we change it to Symbiotic instead of a Loyal role it becomes a matter of

Z - Y = X

I feel like one of the biggest issues was my first two setups legit had a crazy role, so the third just seemed like it and immediately brought the idea of it being crazy to the forefront, but I feel we've worked with it enough to make it so it isn't a crazy role, and fits rather nicely in a normal game, as there really isn't some weird mechanic. It's pretty straight forward.

(The lovers would have been a much bigger concept, but the new version of it incredibly flattened it down.

what's crazy about it? What's not normal about it? Everything with in it is normal, I feel, or at least makes sense within the variant part of it. I definitely don't feel like it is there to spice it up. Maybe more of a sour than a spice, but I feel it comes from all normal mechanics similar to the way that the Loyal modifier works.

Anyone have anymore thoughts for this?
I am pretty blank on it.

In post 44, Boonskiies wrote:

In post 39, mykonian wrote:I don't think people in a normal could expect a role to change depending on who they picked n0.

This is what doesn't necessarily add up to me. Considering the Loyal modifier essentially has the same effect, but for itself, which is another reason I liked the addition of the Loyal modifier in the game.

This isn't really the same analogy though. Its functionality is swingy based entirely on random n0 actions, and I'm PRETTY sure n0 actions are themselves non-normal on MS.

Other notes:
1)

The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). A second anti-town group can be given a separate Mafia family name, or can be a Werewolf group. There should be no more than two mafia/werewolf factions, and no more than one Serial Killer.

I think that means you have to restrict scum flavors to mafia/werewolf, not virus or the like
2) Banned:

Anything resolving with a random element

A n0 town action is essentially resolving with random element since no one knows any alignment

Like, wrt the symbiotic role, I think you can probably construct something that reasonably resembles what you want (except the n0 bit), but I think that both of these things are explicitly non-normal and would be issues. MAYBE it'd be as simple as making it an action that happens at whatever night the player chooses (obv not n0), unless that causes a different problem?

I'm totally fine with the person targeting on N1. I don't know why I didn't bring that up earlier. That's generally how Seraph Knights work anyways if they aren't pre chosen in the setup anyways.

and it allows for the random factor to be gone.

Yeah if n1 works for you, I think that's more elegant, more fun to play and more normal. Can you restate what your current intended setup is? I want to make sure that when we discuss balance I'm looking at the right stuff.

Updated Role PM's

Oops, meant to have that in spoiler. Here's the new Town Symbiotic Role PM.

Welcome, [insert player name here], you are a

Town Symbiotic

.

Abilities:

• At the beginning of the game, you will target someone by PM'ing the mod. If this person is targeted with a night kill, you will be killed in their place. If you and your target are not of the same alignment, all investigative actions that are targeted towards you or your target will fail. In other words, you and your target will be ascetic for investigative roles only. You will not be informed of this.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

1) Does symbiotic act on n1 investigations or is it starting n2? I think it might help to spell out in role PM (also your latest post is the old role PM for it I think)

2) I think that either scum should get a bit more power or town a bit less. Maybe gunsmith is even night, or maybe scum get like a 1-shot strongman or 1-shot doctor (effectively a godfather against the gunsmith). A jailkeeper and two useful investigatives is a fair amount of power, and I think the symbiote is net-net positive, especially if it can be used as something like a n1 bodyguard of the gunsmith or cop.

Oh dang it. I copy pasted wrong. Haha. The correct one is in the role pm list, and I'll post it correctly in a seperate post in a second.

I think starting N1 it would take place, as that's when the kill protection aspect would work.

I can make the gunsmith even night. I can turn the goon into a 1-shot doc. It'll make them think they have a town killing role. I like the idea of having scum be able to get a no result from targeting Symbiotic if the symb targeted scum.

I'm alright with this for normalcy and balance. There's a good scum role, the daytalk could be fun, 4 town pr's of differing strength, and as far as I can tell this is hard to break. I can pass this.

Updated Final Role PM's

Oops. Didn't have the odd night in my description. Fixed it.

Welcome, [insert player name here], you are a

Town Odd-Night Loyal Cop

.

Abilities:

• During any odd night phase, you may target a player. If you target a player that is mafia, it will act as if you were roleblocked, and you will be given a "No Result". You will be given a result of "Not Mafia" if your target is not aligned with mafia.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

Oo. Does this mean I'm good to go when/if Firebringer gives it the green light?

smith as well.

Notes:

Gunsmith should be "has a gun", "doesn't have a gun" instead of "guilty", "not guilty".
What's "35] Claiming color code is prohibited. " mean?
Can symbiotic action be blocked (i.e. via jail)? If so, what happens if it's blocked? If not, I think that should be communicated ("cannot be prevented by any means" or the like)


Otherwise I'm good w this.

In post 67, mykonian wrote:I'm alright with this for normalcy and balance. There's a good scum role, the daytalk could be fun, 4 town pr's of differing strength, and as far as I can tell this is hard to break. I can pass this.

Agreed.

Claiming color code as claiming the colors of what the role pm's are. Like he #080008 and what not.

Okay, I'll change the gunsmith to has a gun, does not have a gun.

And I'll make it unblockable.