Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Marquis]

Anyway pagetop and bye

[Postie]

what difference does it make between helping him out with his pressure on you and voting him to put pressure on him? there's nothing to say that following him is the "logical" thing to do rather than pressuing him.

Two votes instead of one creates more pressure and more focused pressure.

i assumed he didn't have anything because, looking over your posts myself, there really wasn't anything there that could reasonably be interpreted as a scumslip. sure,

maybe

being the first to the thread opening could be interpreted that way, but i put more weight into awkward rvses being scum indicative than that tell anyways.

I can understand this and along with the stuff you said earlier about believing Llamarble was giving a sort-of "token read" (if that's along the lines of what you were saying?) I can

kinda

see how your reaction could come from town but at the same time
it's just really fucking weird way to react and your actions make a lot more sense from scum than town to me

this is really forced.

Explain?

[northsidegal]

@lla – if i was scum i definitely would have lurked out the beginning of the game – activity is probably, for the most part, meaningless (so is everything else you mentioned).

I think you were trying to find things where they aren't, and when directly engaged with Postie regressing to a reactive scum playstyle. These are two separate things, that I'll admit I'm still not entirely sure isn't just me throwing things at the wall for the sake of a comparatively dull game, but regardless the general vibe is scummy against a really townvibing Postie.

you think that

i'm

the one who was trying to find things where there wasn't anything? please point to where you think this happened.

[Marquis]

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

[northsidegal]

Two votes instead of one creates more pressure and more focused pressure.

and? one vote on someone i think is scummy is worth more than one vote on someone i don't have a read on.

I can understand this and along with the stuff you said earlier about believing Llamarble was giving a sort-of "token read" (if that's along the lines of what you were saying?) I can

kinda

see how your reaction could come from town but at the same time
it's just really fucking weird way to react and your actions make a lot more sense from scum than town to me

it's literally not a weird way to react in the slightest – after making a basically random vote, someone came in with what i thought was a scummy enough entrance to move my random vote to a low-information vote.

this is really forced.

Explain?

you're making a mountain out of a molehill. it doesn't feel like this line of questioning comes from you actually trying to figure anything out, it seems like it comes from you

feeling the need

to push someone for something. you made the argument that i'm scum because i didn't sheep someone on his incredibly obvious fake reasons vote – that alone should be ridiculous enough to anyone paying attention.

[northsidegal]

postie, what does the rest of your team think about this interaction?

[Llamarble]

How are you still alive...
VOTE: Marquis
I'll revisit this game tomorrow when I'm not feeling this subdued grouchy scatter. I think I'll name this emotion oscblur.

[Llamarble]

@lla – if i was scum i definitely would have lurked out the beginning of the game – activity is probably, for the most part, meaningless (so is everything else you mentioned).

Do you actually believe this?

[ActionDan]

For the record nsg is scum-tryharding as opposed to postie town-tryharding. The difference is in the reactiveness (?) or general gist of that

NSG looks like NSG here. What you'd call scum-tryharding I'd call NAI. But I 100% disagree with your postie assessment and think as NSG as said, it comes off as forced. "forced" really isn't doing it justice actually, it's more like a cross-examination that where any one line of inquiry splits into two arbitrarily ad nauseam.

[Postie]

Honestly is a word probably more used by scum, at least when it looks like that.
And yeah, I think scum might have their eyes on the start time a bit more particularly since we didn't have to confirm roles.
That's probably significant enough for us to prefer a lynch on one of the first-hour posters.
I don't like "where's all the spam" either. Noise is scummy (eventually).
F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.
Hypemention is minor towntell but not enough to avoid lynch.

I didn't like Marquis' first couple posts either; I forgot about that.

If it helps shed some slight on some of these things, I've been playing a lot of turbos (blitz games) offsite on MU, and the last few games I played on MS went at ridiculous pace (including one that had reached 162 by pages the end of day 1). I saw Team Mafia being hyped up by my team and others, and that the games were large games.
I expected spam. There was no spam. It weirded me out.
That's it.

Also RC says northsidegal is obvious town by play and also would have been likely to pick town.

[Postie]

postie, what does the rest of your team think about this interaction?

Oh and I was told to tell you that RC told me to tell you that stuff before you asked this.

[wgeurts]

Hey everyone, haven't read any of the thread yet but just wanted to quickly post to let everyone know I'll be around in a few hours or so. I've got an exam in half an hour which is why.

[Postie]

VOTE: wgeurts

While I ask about clarification from RC on northsidegal things.

p-edit: Nice timing.

[Llamarble]

I wonder if we win by lynching EddieFenix and Marquis and Postie. Wouldn't be surprised.

[Postie]

If you'd like to take a moment away from patting yourself on the back for having apparently already solved the game (or pretending to), I still have you and Marquis to sort out of the people who've posted so far.

Why's Marquis scum?

[Llamarble]

Sorting me is pointless, either I'll get nightkilled immediately or we'll win. Well, both is probably the most likely outcome.
(Or I'm scum and you can autolynch me a day before lylo)
Marquis is making a grand spectacle of trying to get help from his teammates.
EddieFenix totally picked the scum role PM
You're accomodating and full-breakdowny

[Postie]

What does "full-breakdowny" mean? And yeah, I've been called "accomodating" or similar things as town before. Interestingly, I don't think anyone has ever called me that as scum. Can probably dig you up some meta to show it's NAI.
Re-read Marquis' posts. I'm willing to roll with that.

VOTE: Marquis

Also

Would also like to know whose teammates are reading this game and whose are likely to give input d1

Also bumping this

I missed this. Definitly RC and idk about the rest of my team. Why does it matter?

[Postie]

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, we should probably lynch one of the players who has already posted today.

Agreed.

Vote: 'marble

F...first has scummy cadence too. Did we ever calculate whether ellipses are just a scumtell? Doesn't matter.

If we want people to take such micro scum tells, we have to be more rigorous. You can't just lump in a mid-word ellipsis with general ellipses.

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.

[Postie]

Keychain now also agrees that northsidegal wouldn't pick scum and has provided this game as evidence, highlighting this post.

I like how by providing evidence you've managed to make your claim less compelling than it was previously.

I wasn't sure if people would take RC at his word so asked for links but if people are happy to take RC at his word then please do that. >.<
I thought that game was a good example to use because I read nsg's ISO and it shows how much she struggles to post the way she's posting here as scum (her thoughts are really superficial as scum); before that I'd never read any games from nsg-scum.

[Lycanfire]

[VOTE: Shea

[wgeurts]

F... first?

VOTE: wgeurts

Haven't seen you play in a while. Hi!

Yeah I've been semi-lurking the forums for the last one and a half years or so, a bunch of stuff happened IRL and I've been busy. Sad to see that the town-meta has degraded so much over that period of time to the point 12:3 is considered balanced. On the other hand, not a lot of the culprits of that seem to be in this game (white flag tends to draw die-hards :p) so if we step up our game this should be smooth sailing.

I mean, for goodness sake, 10:3 is considered balanced, and we've been given 2 extra players equaling an entire extra day. Not only that, but Scum loses if they have one player, left, so we literally only have to lynch two of them to win. If we lose this I'm going to go ahead and eat a hat.

[wgeurts]

i didn't believe that he really found something, hence my saying that his entrance was forced (kind of like how your questions feel).

Okay, and the scum motivation behind him lying about having found something is what?

Yeah I'm agreeing with Postie here. Llamarble isn't new to this game, it really doesn't make a lot of sense for him to instantly come out as scum and garner so much attention on page 1. On the other-hand, I fully believe he could pull something like that off as scum, I wouldn't say it's alignment indicative as such. Either way, I'm interested to see his reasons for Postie being obv-scum.

Idk if he has already posted those yet but hey, if he has ignore this lol. I can understand some suspicion on Postie as some of my team members have already warned me they're jolly good at playing scum, enjoy it, and some already want me to vote her. I don't yet see the reason why myself yet personally though. I could definetely see someone good as scum taking White Flag as scum if they had the opprtunity though, this isn't a solid ground for a read but is certainly worth keeping in mind.

[wgeurts]

i didn't believe that he really found something, hence my saying that his entrance was forced (kind of like how your questions feel).

Okay, and the scum motivation behind him lying about having found something is what?

he forces a read to a) pretend like he's generating useful content and b) stagnate things by ending rvs early. moreover, i think in general a forced entrance like that is just more likely to come from self-conscious scum than from town. that's not to say that i believe that he's necessarily scum or that any of those were necessarily his strategy – just that i think it's likely enough to warrant moving my vote while we're still in rvs.

Alright, I'm not convinced this is a scum post as you are still relatively new to the site and thus, the game. Care to talk some things through with me?

Why would Llama want to attract so much attention so early on as you've mentioned? As scum it could be a really bad play in an attempt to draw suspicion on Postie, Llamarble knows whoever he'd have to play this perfectly as to not risk it backfiring. A very dodgy move as scum unless he's intentionally trying to have people think he can't be scum for that exact reason. As town, it could be an attempt to get this moving and test reactions, or he could legitmately have a reason to suspect Postie right now. For these reasons I don't particulary lean either way on thiese actions of his, though gun to head I'd say town.

This brings me to my next point.

How is generating content stagnating the game. The RVS is named that, because it's, well, random. Random votes don't generate alignment-indicative content, anything moving away from the RVS is something that is generating content from which we can try to guess people's alignments. I don't really think your second point holds up, do you see what I mean?

[wgeurts]

25 Offends me, but that's not why Marquis is scum #2
I'd probably have forced something, but then there were 4 scumtells in a 3 post ISO.
Is that density even beatable? "Honestly this is the first post where's the spam I was pregamethreadwatching for" might do it?

Hey, care to explain in somewhat more detail why you think Postie is scum?