Mafiascum.net

Huh, I thought Byron made a good point, but that Sho's comment on Screen was fine, so I didn't put too much stock in it. The OMGUS vote is really weird, though. I can get on this wagon. VOTE: Shoshin

In post 48, Shoshin wrote:

In post 47, ByronVilla wrote:

In post 46, Shoshin wrote:

In post 45, ByronVilla wrote:I can sort of understand this kind of vote, some people do like to establish a 'buddy' of sorts (which imo is scummy as hell) and distancing yourself away from any early attempts at friendliness

could

be a good idea.

What's scummy about townreading someone?

Well nothing in isolation, but when you take into consideration that it was a read on a RVS vote (which aren't really alignment indicative from my stance), then you can take into account the possibility that people can use these early on to try and get into peoples good books by townreading them, then it can come off as a tiny bit sus, and at this stage in the game a tiny bit sus is all we're gonna be able to latch onto until more discussion happens.

There's more to the read than an RVS vote. It's about his reasoning for that vote, as well as the context in which it was said. It's not something that scum would have said, so it felt town. And from my perspective, the way you make "more discussion happen" (your words) is by developing reads, including townreads, not by waiting around hoping something happens. The passive approach is actually much more pro-scum.

While this is true, you gave absolutely no reasoning to your read on Post #25. That's hardly 'developing' a read. I understand you just did in the quote above but that was after being pressured, how were we supposed to know your reasonings if all we were told is a 'felt town'. And sure being passive is quite scummy, but I'd rather not rush to place reads on people unless it's for the sake of pressuring them, as I don't have enough knowledge yet to be confident in any reads.

Also I'm off to college, so I hope there's some juicy discussion when I come back

Sup

Garuga seems to be making excuses for not posting but in a way that comes of as LAMIST. VOTE: Garuga

I think the screenplay's joke vote is NAI, the reaction to it is NAI, and shoshin getting involved with it is NAI. That said, the 3 things together feel forced and odds are a chain of posts like that in RVS contains 1 spy at least. So I am fairly confident there's 1 spy among {shoshin, brawl, screenplay}. So FOS on you 3 while I try to sort you.

I have a tonal townread on mumble. Something about remembering NM's post and asking gustavo about feels like it comes from a relaxed townie.

Where's the cake?

In post 50, TehBrawlGuy wrote:Huh, I thought Byron made a good point, but that Sho's comment on Screen was fine, so I didn't put too much stock in it. The OMGUS vote is really weird, though. I can get on this wagon. VOTE: Shoshin

Let me explain. Byron's voting me for townreading Screen. His explanation: Screen's town, I'm buddying Screen, so therefore I'm scum. My read on that: Byron's scum under his own criteria for what's scum and what's town, because (a) Byron assumes that Screen's town without any basis (he needs to do that to claim that I'm buddying Screen), (b) Byron buddies Screen by sheeping him (i.e. voting me), and (c) Byron claims that buddying is scummy (which he's doing) is scummy. This is precisely the type of hypocrisy that comes from scum because it's an example of someone's scumhunting criteria corresponding to their own behavior.

BuJaber's perceptive.

Bu, thoughts on Byron?

In post 53, Shoshin wrote:

In post 50, TehBrawlGuy wrote:Huh, I thought Byron made a good point, but that Sho's comment on Screen was fine, so I didn't put too much stock in it. The OMGUS vote is really weird, though. I can get on this wagon. VOTE: Shoshin

Let me explain. Byron's voting me for townreading Screen. His explanation: Screen's town, I'm buddying Screen, so therefore I'm scum. My read on that: Byron's scum under his own criteria for what's scum and what's town, because (a) Byron assumes that Screen's town without any basis (he needs to do that to claim that I'm buddying Screen), (b) Byron buddies Screen by sheeping him (i.e. voting me), and (c) Byron claims that buddying is scummy (which he's doing) is scummy. This is precisely the type of hypocrisy that comes from scum because it's an example of someone's scumhunting criteria corresponding to their own behavior.

If we assume 10-3 and that Byron is Town, then the odds of any particular player being Town are 3/4. I think that makes it pretty reasonable for him to assume Screen or anyone else is Town on the odds alone.

I think it's a pretty false equivalence, what you did vs what Byron did. You called Screen's post Town without any other motivator, whereas he's scumhunting and his best lead assumes Screen is Town, so he's going with it, but his primary motivation isn't to establish Screen as Town.

In post 56, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I think it's a pretty false equivalence, what you did vs what Byron did. You called Screen's post Town without any other motivator, whereas he's scumhunting and his best lead assumes Screen is Town, so he's going with it, but his primary motivation isn't to establish Screen as Town.

I called post #20 town because it's a town-tell. The motivation was to get people talking about reads, to move away from RVS, to figure out who the scum are, and to eventually lynch them. And figuring out who the scum are involves figuring out who the town are. My motivation wasn't to buddy Screen. If anything, I did the opposite because I dislike his personality.

Byron's scum because his internal logic doesn't square. He said buddying Screen is scummy, yet he's buddying up to Screen. let me put this in more abstract terms. You can't say player X is buddying player Y unless you already know (or believe) that player Y is town. And if you think player Y is town, then you can't fault player X for also thinking player Y is town. But that's what Byron is doing. He's assuming Screen is town for the sake of scumreading me. In a way, he's scumhunting through associative tells, which is scummy at this stage in the game because the scum already know everyone's alignments while the town don't.

In post 45, ByronVilla wrote:I can sort of understand this kind of vote, some people do like to establish a 'buddy' of sorts (which imo is scummy as hell) and distancing yourself away from any early attempts at friendliness

could

be a good idea.

I don't like this "could" language either.

I bet if someone were to analyze how often scum townread RVS posts vs how often town do, you'd see a lot more townies than scum. Like 9/10 town.

In post 57, Shoshin wrote:

In post 56, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I think it's a pretty false equivalence, what you did vs what Byron did. You called Screen's post Town without any other motivator, whereas he's scumhunting and his best lead assumes Screen is Town, so he's going with it, but his primary motivation isn't to establish Screen as Town.

I called post #20 town because it's a town-tell. The motivation was to get people talking about reads, to move away from RVS, to figure out who the scum are, and to eventually lynch them. And figuring out who the scum are involves figuring out who the town are. My motivation wasn't to buddy Screen. If anything, I did the opposite because I dislike his personality.

Byron's scum because his internal logic doesn't square. He said buddying Screen is scummy, yet he's buddying up to Screen. let me put this in more abstract terms.

You can't say player X is buddying player Y unless you already know (or believe) that player Y is town.

And if you think player Y is town, then you can't fault player X for also thinking player Y is town. But that's what Byron is doing. He's assuming Screen is town for the sake of scumreading me. In a way, he's scumhunting through associative tells, which is scummy at this stage in the game because the scum already know everyone's alignments while the town don't.

You do see how that's several steps removed from scumhunting as opposed to what Byron did, which is just directly scumhunting, though?

w/r/t the bolded, that's just incorrect. I've seen and done that many times before and it's not particularly uncommon.

In post 52, BuJaber wrote:Sup

Garuga seems to be making excuses for not posting but in a way that comes of as LAMIST. VOTE: Garuga

I think the screenplay's joke vote is NAI, the reaction to it is NAI, and shoshin getting involved with it is NAI. That said, the 3 things together feel forced and odds are a chain of posts like that in RVS contains 1 spy at least. So I am fairly confident there's 1 spy among {shoshin, brawl, screenplay}. So FOS on you 3 while I try to sort you.

check this out y'all. Bujaber says he's "fairly confident" that there's a red within three players, yet votes someone outside those three. not only that but he doesn't even expand on his push on those three players at all. a green who has such confidence in a scumpool is most likely gonna focus on narrowing down that scumpool, but Bujaber doesn't push them, he doesn't ask any questions. the way I see it, I don't think Bujaber is trying to gamesolve here, I think he's trying to vote park on Garuga until he can figure out which way the wind is gonna blow

VOTE: Bujaber

No, what Byron did is several steps removed from scumhunting. I directly read a post as town. That's direct scumhunting. Byron didn't say my post was directly scummy. He said it was scummy because Screen was town. Byron's scumhunting only makes sense as an associative tell, and yes, associations are uncommon among townies at the beginning of a game. But scum do them all the time, because scum operate from an informed perspective, which means they're always seeing these sorts of associations, regardless of whether they want to.

knuflanto is probably town. Very good point about BuJaber. Need to think on it.

In post 62, Shoshin wrote:No, what Byron did is several steps removed from scumhunting. I directly read a post as town. That's direct scumhunting.

Byron didn't say my post was directly scummy.

He said it was scummy because Screen was town. Byron's scumhunting only makes sense as an associative tell, and yes, associations are uncommon among townies at the beginning of a game. But scum do them all the time, because scum operate from an informed perspective, which means they're always seeing these sorts of associations, regardless of whether they want to.

I guess he'll have to clarify, but I read his 47 as exactly that. Byron, which way did your reads flow? Was it ScreenTown -> ShoScum, or ShoScum -> ScreenTown?

In post 64, TehBrawlGuy wrote:

In post 62, Shoshin wrote:No, what Byron did is several steps removed from scumhunting. I directly read a post as town. That's direct scumhunting.

Byron didn't say my post was directly scummy.

He said it was scummy because Screen was town. Byron's scumhunting only makes sense as an associative tell, and yes, associations are uncommon among townies at the beginning of a game. But scum do them all the time, because scum operate from an informed perspective, which means they're always seeing these sorts of associations, regardless of whether they want to.

I guess he'll have to clarify, but I read his 47 as exactly that. Byron, which way did your reads flow? Was it ScreenTown -> ShoScum, or ShoScum -> ScreenTown?

I understand why Byron would say that Screen's townness makes me scum, because in Byron's mind, buddying is scummy. But why would me being scum make Screen town?

In post 63, Shoshin wrote:knuflanto is probably town. Very good point about BuJaber. Need to think on it.

It is a good point, but ironically, it dodges her commenting on the three of us (and also on Byron), so I'm not sure I give it townpoints.

Knuflanto, thoughts on a possible scum in me/sho/screen? Thoughts on Sho v Byron?

In post 65, Shoshin wrote:

In post 64, TehBrawlGuy wrote:

In post 62, Shoshin wrote:No, what Byron did is several steps removed from scumhunting. I directly read a post as town. That's direct scumhunting.

Byron didn't say my post was directly scummy.

He said it was scummy because Screen was town. Byron's scumhunting only makes sense as an associative tell, and yes, associations are uncommon among townies at the beginning of a game. But scum do them all the time, because scum operate from an informed perspective, which means they're always seeing these sorts of associations, regardless of whether they want to.

I guess he'll have to clarify, but I read his 47 as exactly that. Byron, which way did your reads flow? Was it ScreenTown -> ShoScum, or ShoScum -> ScreenTown?

I understand why Byron would say that Screen's townness makes me scum, because in Byron's mind, buddying is scummy. But why would me being scum make Screen town?

Better to let him explain it himself if that's the way it flowed.

VOTE: Shoshin
to be honest you might as well give up because I'm on to you scumbum

Wait there's already 3 votes on you god you're popular
VOTE: unvote

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

Opportunistic wagonerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In post 55, Shoshin wrote:Bu, thoughts on Byron?

Hard to say. I'm reading him as townie and I think you're oversimplifying what town does and what scum does. There is more overlap between those two things that you are not accounting for.

However I also think he's wrong about you buddying him. That post of yours is not buddying imo. It takes more than that to buddy someone. That post of yours is generally coming from an easily fooled town. Someone who jumps to townread people too easily for NAI things.

In post 63, Shoshin wrote:knuflanto is probably town. Very good point about BuJaber. Need to think on it.

It's not a good point if he actually read my post because it means he didn't understand my post at all.

I have an actual case on Garuga and I think he's scum so I voted him.

But with you 3 I am not scumreading any of you individually yet. But that conversation feels unnatural. I don't think it comes from 3 townies. So in all likelihood one of you is scum and it gives me a direction to follow for scumhunting going forward. But unless one of you does something scummier than garuga I am not going to randomly vote for a 1/3 scum hit when I have a specific case on someone else.

In post 52, BuJaber wrote:Sup

Garuga seems to be making excuses for not posting but in a way that comes of as LAMIST. VOTE: Garuga

I think the screenplay's joke vote is NAI, the reaction to it is NAI, and shoshin getting involved with it is NAI. That said, the 3 things together feel forced and odds are a chain of posts like that in RVS contains 1 spy at least. So I am fairly confident there's 1 spy among {shoshin, brawl, screenplay}. So FOS on you 3 while I try to sort you.

I have a tonal townread on mumble. Something about remembering NM's post and asking gustavo about feels like it comes from a relaxed townie.

Where's the cake?

I know there's a currently bit of discussion on how much one player should be posting in a game (leading to things like the geriatric ruleset) so I was testing the waters on that. I can see how it could look LAMIST though, and I like your attempt to form early reads.

Good observation on Sho/Brawl/Screen. Do you think the jokes about a scum PT are a hint of some sort?

In post 69, Saudade wrote:VOTE: Shoshin
to be honest you might as well give up because I'm on to you scumbum

What makes you think Shoshin might be scum?