Page 3 of 4
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:28 pm
by Aristophanes
FICK I forgot about this again!!
Prod me Sunday and I'll for sure give this some time!
Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:41 pm
by AnonymousGhost
It's fine. :3
Don't beat yourself over this.
Can do!
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:34 am
by Aristophanes
Why does Scum have a Vanilla Cop and Town have a Neapolitan?
If these were reversed the Town could get a false inno on the Goon, but as is they cannot.
Also, to answer potential player questions down the road, if a theoretical Cop and a theoretical Tracker both targeted the Conditional Ninja when it made a kill, would it be blocked from making the kill
and
be investigated guilty?
I know this can't happen but in theory with the modular roles it could.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:16 am
by AnonymousGhost
In a nutshell, Neapolitan can confirm at least four players as town - not including themselves - while the Vanilla Cop can give the mafia some idea of which players they should target with their NK, but no definite confirmation for who to kill and who to not kill.
Jingle hit the nail on the head when he identified that the main shtick of the setup is not it never gives clear answers, but does give a vague idea.
If the Conditional Ninja was targeted by - in this case - the Neapolitan and the Conditional Loved Tracker when it performed the night kill, it's conditional modifier would kick in and the player would not perform the kill that night - also signaling to the mafia that they probably were investigated by something other than a tracker (smart scum could use this to deduce town PRs). The end results would be: No night kill, Neapolitan gets "Not Vanilla" and the Conditional Loved Tracker gets "Username did not target anyone."
Squinting at the wording at bit more closely, I believe that that's the correct result the CLT would receive because the CN "will not perform" their action to begin with.
In your scenario, the results would be nearly the same: Conditional Ninja wouldn't make the kill, Cop would get a guilty and Tracker would return "did not target anyone".
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:17 am
by AnonymousGhost
FYI I'm not using NAR, I'm using
RAR; a recent article that attempts to fix the problems in NAR.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:27 am
by Aristophanes
Cool cool! All good reasons and well thought through!
I just had to ask as it was the only potential oddity I could come up with.
I'll read up on RAR, but I take it it gives you the power to say things like "obviously this modifier goes before the investigation it's modifying, so that happens."
Cool, I would also sign this from reading the thread and these answers
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:29 am
by Aristophanes
Like, I wish I could contribute more but the PMs look good, the setup looks great (I approve of swing as long as it remains fun), and you seem to have everything thought out!
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:44 am
by AnonymousGhost
As far as I can understand, RAR "checks whether an particular end of night effect happens" - i.e. usually active roles - rather than "checking to see if an actions occurs or not", so that it can avoid the whole role blocker and jail keeper cross-targeting nightmare.
What do you think of the having prod timers be the usual length (48 hours), but players can only be prodded twice before being replaced on the third time? Do you think it's reasonable?
Also, what are your thoughts on Nudges and Follow-up Nudges for V/LA players? I ran into this "issue" in my Mini Theme where I had to figure out how to balance a player's V/LA status and balance their activity requirements? Like I wanted to be lenient, but still have something "official" to "fix" it if it became an issue.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:46 am
by AnonymousGhost
Hmm...
Could you check over Jingle's critiques and see if you agree or disagree with his reasoning regarding the roles and whatnot, in case either the two of us - Jingle and I - missed anything? Having another set of eyes look that stuff over can't hurt!
Thanks!
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:50 am
by AnonymousGhost
In post 57, AnonymousGhost wrote:As far as I can understand, RAR "checks whether an particular end of night effect happens" - i.e. usually active roles - rather than "checking to see if an actions occurs or not", so that it can avoid the whole role blocker and jail keeper cross-targeting nightmare.
So, in the Conditional Ninja, Cop, and Tracker scenario, I'd be asking myself something like:
What result, if any, did the Cop return as?
What result, if any, did the Tracker return as?
Did the mafi's NK target die?
Which would result in this Poe-thingy.
What result, if any, did the Cop return as?
Yes.
What result, if any, did the Tracker return as?
"did not target anyone"
Did the mafi's NK target die?
Yes. [Factor in the Ninja's conditional modifier & whomever targeted this player] No.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:05 pm
by AnonymousGhost
Can you unpack this in more detail please? Thank you! :3
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:35 pm
by Jingle
In post 57, AnonymousGhost wrote:What do you think of the having prod timers be the usual length (48 hours), but players can only be prodded twice before being replaced on the third time? Do you think it's reasonable?
That was standard when I was new, FWIW.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:36 pm
by Jingle
Also, as long as you make it public, you can use whatever activity requirements you personally think will make the game most fun.
Be aware that no one signs up for BAM games anymore.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:37 pm
by Aristophanes
In post 57, AnonymousGhost wrote:As far as I can understand, RAR "checks whether an particular end of night effect happens" - i.e. usually active roles - rather than "checking to see if an actions occurs or not", so that it can avoid the whole role blocker and jail keeper cross-targeting nightmare.
What do you think of the having prod timers be the usual length (48 hours), but players can only be prodded twice before being replaced on the third time? Do you think it's reasonable?
Also, what are your thoughts on Nudges and Follow-up Nudges for V/LA players? I ran into this "issue" in my Mini Theme where I had to figure out how to balance a player's V/LA status and balance their activity requirements? Like I wanted to be lenient, but still have something "official" to "fix" it if it became an issue.
I have a similar rule in my games where after 2 prods I shorten the leash significantly.
6. As a general rule you should aim to post a every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving. I know some of you like to lurk, but don't make a habit of it please. I will prod players after 48 hours of inactivity. If you do not respond to a prod after 24 hours, I will start searching for a replacement. If you are prodded 3 times within the game, I will prod you after each 24 hours of inactivity, with no grace periods, and replace as necessary.
It works pretty well and is rarely used, luckily.
V/LA nudges are fine and makes sure the game stays active
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:39 pm
by Aristophanes
In post 58, AnonymousGhost wrote:Hmm...
Could you check over Jingle's critiques and see if you agree or disagree with his reasoning regarding the roles and whatnot, in case either the two of us - Jingle and I - missed anything? Having another set of eyes look that stuff over can't hurt!
Thanks!
I have read and reread the posts (I skimmed some of the longer ones) but Jingle is amazing here and I agree with the points, as well as the outcome of the discussions
I would totally support Jingle making this an article
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:44 pm
by Aristophanes
Sure!
Swing is sometimes looked at negatively, especially when you get into Normal settings. It is often seen as something to be righted. But swing gives character to games. It makes the decisions of the players matter so much more than it does is a swingless setting.
As a player, swing brings meaning to your role. As a mod, it's just so much more fun to watch.
I can elaborate mechanically I guess but swing is a lot of fun, and having a couple variables that could theow everything into chaos under the right circumstances, for either team, is fantastic.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:12 pm
by AnonymousGhost
Can't say I blame them. BaM games are not what I would typically play, especially when I consider how that ruleset handles flaking replacements.
I don't think my activity requirements border on BaM, but I don't think it'll make "flaking" easy for players to do. Hopefully... <.<
Interesting explanation about swing! I like it!
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:13 pm
by AnonymousGhost
Asking one last time to check off my t's and dot my i's...
Balance is good?
If so, I take it that you'd sign off on this setup? :3
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:31 pm
by Jingle
You are go for takeoff.
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:42 pm
by Aristophanes
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:16 pm
by AnonymousGhost
Nice!
Hmm... Do you think now is a bad time to take it into sign-ups? Feels like I should advertise or wait for a bit before I put it out there.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:41 am
by Aristophanes
It is the middle of midterm season so it may be a little slow. Between Halloween and Thanksgiving is a sweet spot I think
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:43 am
by AnonymousGhost
Ooh~
Thanks!
completely forgot about midterm season even though I'm in it
XD
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:04 am
by Aristophanes
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:57 am
by AnonymousGhost
/dies/
when you can't find the right thread in the long list of "View of Your Posts"
/obligatory bump/
