Undertale Semi-Open Spared PT

[chennisden]

"how does it benefit town"
"townhunting requires less info than scumhunting"

you WOT mate.

[chennisden]

ugh oversoul.

if you're town waiting for the "revelation" will hurt.

lemme guess, it's "HEY GUYS IM ACTUALLY THE PR."

[chennisden]

Yeah, he's cornered scum alright.

[chennisden]

He's advocating neutral cuz town would win w/ pacifist since the game was already trivialized.

I also think his partner is DEB but this is something I don't really think strongly

[chennisden]

how does oversoul really

still

think im scum.

[chennisden]

uh im actually townreading adorable a lot rn, like they are elements/volxen tier.

[chennisden]

@everyone scumreading me answer this please

Why would I play this way as scum? I'm playing in a way where it's pretty much impossible for me to turn around and say "lol ACTUALLY we're gonna lynch {endgame pair} instead of us," and expect it to work, so that means I can't be the scum win-con. I.e. I'm not the strongest member in the scumteam and I'm just here to propel a deepwolf slot into endgame.

But that comes with a couple of problems. That means out of {Bitmap GiF} {Sakura Pie} there's someone I'm trying to propel to endgame because I think I've made it VERY CLEAR that's the ideal endgame. Only Sakura has said something of the sort about Pie. And let's say you think that, sure. But if I have a stronger scum partner I don't approach this game the way I do, looking for townreads. My job should be to get some shallow towncredit, case a slot or two as scum, get some mislynches, and cast a lot of paranoia on some locktown read and get them lynched, and then my scumpartner can be the one to call me out and get me lynched, then scum goes home for victory. Or, the easier thing is I can just not post and let my scumbuddies carry me, then just make sure I don't spew them scum.

It's very clear that's not what's happening and I dunno, I think there's no real reason for me to pretend to solve the game as scum to the degree I'm doing right now. The safer option would be to lurk, eventually get caught up in PoE, and in the process of dying spew somebody scum so town can mislynch town by themselves. Right now as scum I think I'd be really trying to push an angle on {Fb Oka} {Ausuka Vecna} {Shiro} or {Sakura Hana}. I guess you can say "wow chennis has grown some self awareness as scum" but that's not at all possible. What am I supposed to do, magically get good at scum when last time I rolled scum, I nearly (1) threw the entire game (2) spewed RC scum (3) forced the team to bus Fuscosco for towncredit and it literally took a townthrow of epic proportions to bring the game back for scum.

Why would I do this as scum? A lot of people that I can theoretically mislynch ALSO HAPPEN to be the same people preventing this town from mislynching me. Why would I line my cards up like this as scum? Whereas as town it makes a lot of sense for me to do this - it gives me reason to actually read the game and not be on the lol mislynch. I guess I could get away with this type of thing in the Newbie queue, but it's pretty obvious the newbie queue and this game are a far cry apart. I dunno, I kinda expect people to know that I'm town when (1) if I'm scum I've completely cornered myself (2) the actions I've been taking would be actively detrimental to my scumteam regardless of the strength of my partners (3) this doesn't line up with the few scumgames I've played with at all (see Mini 2070) and (4) my approach here is very similar to my non-Newbie towngames and also has some degree of similarity to my Newbie towngames.
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Now if a deepwolf has gotten into the towncore I'd be a good mislynch to save to LyLo or something. All you have to do is say "I kinda wanna lynch chennis" and then not lynch me, and say "wow everyone is scumreading him" (which would be a terrible mischaracterization as well) and ask "Why haven't we lynched this guy yet? He's obviously scum" and then bam, the deepwolf brings the game home. And there have been attempts to cast paranoia on me or line me up as a mislynch. Yet my responses to this are all in good faith. If I'm scum I don't even have to pretend to sort you. I can just say "wow this guy is scum" and tunnel them a bit and let the rest of town brush me off as "shit town" with terrible reads while I just sit in the ignored corner until my scumbuddy needs some free towncredit. If I was the scum wincon I would've tried to steal Pie or Ausuka. And if I wasn't the scum wincon then my scumbuddies would tell me to shut the hell up. I haven't tried to steal Pie or Ausuka and I sure as hell haven't shut up, much to the detriment of your sanity.

I dunno. At the end of the day it's going to be obvious who we bring to endgame (Pie + GiF) but I guess it's just a pride issue about not being the shit townie who gets mislynched D1. I'm kind of sick of being scum's free mislynch that's used to win the game when it's clear or should be clear that I'm town and that's part of why I sign up for a lot of Newbie games. I've been trying to use presence-of-force this game and I don't think there's any reason I do that as scum, because no matter if my partners are weaker or stronger than me I don't play the way I do, unless you want to take the stance that there's scum in my endgame proposal. Even then that's really reachy and making a ton of invalid assumptions that lead to an invalid conclusion makes no sense.

[chennisden]

@mod the reason it matters if mafia can kill from PT is because of asgore. if both scum are in Spared PT scum wins.

[chennisden]

I wonder why

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11180383

[chennisden]

Here's a read list for people to comment on seeing as nothing's happening

Town Read:
Chemist
Adorable
Chennis

Null:
Volxen
flippynips
DEB
DDL

Scum - I think it's likely one of these is scum but not both
SS
Oversoul

I agree with this list I'd just swap DEB and DDL

Idrc about ordering of top tier since it's all town. and adorable is like my strongest TR so.

[chennisden]

i want elements/volxen to fight the pacifist opposition rly hard and not cave into lynching OS for being scum

spare chemist, spare adorable (if she doesn't die) if she dies spare volxen/elements.

if adorable doesn't die this game is auto

if adorable does die spare like maybe DDL d4 or if they leave volxen alive, LOL U

[chennisden]

Here's a read list for people to comment on seeing as nothing's happening

Town Read:
Chemist
Adorable
Chennis

Null:
Volxen
flippynips
DEB
DDL

Scum - I think it's likely one of these is scum but not both
SS
Oversoul

I agree with this list I'd just swap DEB and DDL

Idrc about ordering of top tier since it's all town. and adorable is like my strongest TR so.

I lied put volxen in top tier

[chennisden]

Oversoul you are a dirty liar

[chennisden]

Elements, what have I done that you think I'd be less likely to do as town, and why do you think that?

Your switch from one post saying to spare you day one, to emulating aspects of chennis and properly petitioning for your spare day two. Your "i can sort chennis" reason seems arbitrary in retrospect as most of us town read chennis pretty strongly hence him being the first spared. It feels like it was more meant to appease oversoul who was the only one not town reading chennis.

Perfectly worded. S_S is doing a poor imitation of the style that got me spared

Uh I think there is probably a deepwolf somewhere actually. Otherwise the game wouldn't be going so smooth??? idk maybe it is just as ez ez as Oversoul/? or S_S/?

[chennisden]

Maybe it's just S_S + X and oversoul is a town dumbass

[chennisden]

Chemist im sorry but i hate your reads

[chennisden]

The more obv/competent town get spared the more sway Oversoul has over the game

Is this his plan

[chennisden]

Hi Chemist how are you.

[Chemist1422]

Hi Chemist how are you.

hi chennis! I’m pretty good

I just woke up so I’m still a little tired

[chennisden]

Id recommend saving elements

Ftr I explicitly trust that youre town and no shenanigans are happening. If it wasn't obvious I'm VT

[chennisden]

also oversoul is scum.

[chennisden]

scum shoots in [adorable elements], PERIOD.

[Chemist1422]

Id recommend saving elements

Ftr I explicitly trust that youre town and no shenanigans are happening. If it wasn't obvious I'm VT

Am doing so and yes I’m confident in that given your tone earlier in the PT

[chennisden]

yeah the PT does townclear me

i think you made a mistake TRing oversoul but it doesnt matter, he aint being spared and i dont want town lynching in the first place.

[Chemist1422]

So yeah I’m locked onto healing Elements rn

I think going pacifist is the play here so hopefully they do that