Page 3 of 40
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:19 am
by marcistar
In post 40, Lukewarm wrote: In post 34, marcistar wrote:so far i think alstroemerial is a bit townie, (23 is just a town mindset i think.)
This is interesting. That was the very post that led me to vote for them.
They had made 4 posts (at the time, was one of the most posts) -- and none of them were about the game.
-RVS vote
-Explained that RVS vote was because of the alphabet
-Talking about WotM
-Talking about Not_Mafia's voting habits
It was starting to feel like someone who felt like they should be posting, but was nervous about jumping in --- which can describe new!Scum
sure it could describe newbie scum, but it could also describe newbie town just as well. those were p1 posts, i dont think its really weird for posts on p1 to seem that way.
In post 44, Val89 wrote:I still think since Not_Mafia is at E-2, we should just go ahead and make him the lim for the day rather than piviot to Lukewarm, though. We can deal with him tomorrow.
agree with u luke, this seems pretty weird.
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:21 am
by Lukewarm
In post 44, Val89 wrote:
I think you might have misunderstood Lukewarm. I am he will correct me if I am wrong, but he was trying to suggest that I have posted nothing of substance to THIS game thus far, not that I posted nothing of substance in 2068.
Indeed. My original point was that Val's first post in 2068 had substance -- and they even said later that they purposefully chose to include substance in their RVS vote -- but Val's first post in 2072 does not have that same substance.
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:21 am
by Not_Mafia
In post 25, Val89 wrote:All,
I've played with some of you before, and I'm glad to see all two of you back for more. For those of you don't know me, allow me to introduce myself - my name is Val89, and I'm known for opening my games by posting what appears on it's surface to be a load of crap and can't possibly be alignment indicative, but actually completely deduces the scum team in my first post. If you don't beleive me, allow me to refer you to the game in question. Yes, a sample size of one, but that is 100% of the games I've played that aren't ongoing and thus fair game for discussion. Not bad odds, I am sure you will agree.
So, I have to say my attention has been immeadately drawn by not_mafia: Clearly, if we consider only alignment at this stage, ignoring the possibility of a serious mod error, there are only 2 possiblities: Not Mafia is mafia, or Not Mafia is not mafia.
There are 9 players in the setup, of which 2 are mafia. That makes the probablity of case A, that Not Mafia is Mafia, as 2/9ths; and conversely, case B, that Not Mafia is not mafia as 7/9s.
Let's now consider another Non-Not Mafia player from the list, lets say, for sake of example, Lukewarm. The same possibities apply - either Lukewarm is mafia, or Lukewarm is not mafia. But Lukewarm is not Not Mafia, because that would be against the site rules precluding playing in the same game under two different names, so Lukewarm HAS to mafia. This logic can be applied to any other player you substitue for Lukewarm, with the sole exception of Not Mafia, meaning that 8 out of 9 players in the game would have to be mafia. Clearly, this is a contridiction, and so our initial assumption is wrong.
If you instead consider the alternative posibilities that either Not Mafia is mafia, or that Not Mafia is not not mafia, then we resolve our contridication. While this doesn't give us any clues as to any of the other playerbase, returning to our example, Lukewarm being not mafia is fine, if not mafia is not Not Mafia. Thus, either Not Mafia is mafia, or Not Mafia is not Not Mafia, and since Not Mafia CLEARY IS Not Mafia, then Not Mafia is mafia. Easy
VOTE: Not_Mafia
This logic is impeccable, I surrender
VOTE: Not_Mafia
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:22 am
by Not_Mafia
In post 36, Lukewarm wrote: In post 33, Val89 wrote:It doesn't matter if you think the logic can be reduced to "Not_Mafia's name is Not_Mafia"; I don't agree that's a fair summation of the argument, and tells me you haven't engaged fully with it, by the way
If you take post 25, and replace Not_Mafia's name with any other name - would the argument mean anything? No, because your argument relies solely on the name of his account.
Also, the logic you applied, would that not stand true in literally every Newbie game that Not_Mafia plays?
And if it does apply to every single game he plays in, then clearly it is not actually of any substance.
Tbf I'm scum even when I'm town
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:23 am
by Lukewarm
In post 50, marcistar wrote:sure it could describe newbie scum, but it could also describe newbie town just as well. those were p1 posts, i dont think its really weird for posts on p1 to seem that way.
Possibly -- When I voted them, I mainly wanted to see how they were going to react to me voting them / saying that they had not really engaged with the game at all -- but then I got side tracked with Val
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:24 am
by Not_Mafia
In post 35, Umlaut wrote:Hi, haven't read anything and not going to for a while but
VOTE: Not_Mafia
on general principle.
Why are you voting on policy and refusing to scumhunt and actually play the game?
VOTE: Umlaut
On general principle
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:25 am
by Val89
In post 47, Lukewarm wrote:The idea that any town player would already be ready to decide who should be the Day 1 elim on page 2 baffles me
If you try and read my confident conclusion through the lens of a newbie player who has 100% accuracy at deducing scum post-1, that it might help unbaffle you.
Of course, if it turns out I am wrong this time, then I might just have to face up to the fact that my post-1 reads may be NAI, but until I see the flip, I won't know that, will I?
As you will see if you read further into 2068, I eventually decided someone else was acting more scummy than my post-1 pick, and moved my vote to them. The person I ended up scumreading ended up being a town PR, so in hindsight, it turns out I should have just stuck to my guns on that first post-1 read. Stands to reason I will take that experience into my future games, no?
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:27 am
by Zyla
In post 56, Val89 wrote: In post 47, Lukewarm wrote:The idea that any town player would already be ready to decide who should be the Day 1 elim on page 2 baffles me
If you try and read my confident conclusion through the lens of a newbie player who has 100% accuracy at deducing scum post-1, that it might help unbaffle you.
Of course, if it turns out I am wrong this time, then I might just have to face up to the fact that my post-1 reads may be NAI, but until I see the flip, I won't know that, will I?
As you will see if you read further into 2068, I eventually decided someone else was acting more scummy than my post-1 pick, and moved my vote to them. The person I ended up scumreading ended up being a town PR, so in hindsight, it turns out I should have just stuck to my guns on that first post-1 read. Stands to reason I will take that experience into my future games, no?
7for7 is probably not the best way to play tbh
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:30 am
by Lukewarm
Maybe Val is just strange.
VOTE: alstroemerial[/unvote]
I saw 42 - do you have any thoughts about this game?
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:31 am
by Lukewarm
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:36 am
by Val89
Oh, I agree completely, but 1for1 might well be reasonable, at least for the first couple of pages. I'll be sure to let you know if anything else pings my radar. I'm not adverse to adjusting my reads, particulary such early ones, if there is a reason to do so.
By the way, does anyone else have an opinion if Zyla's post counts as a potential
Buzzword scumtell?
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:38 am
by Not_Mafia
In post 60, Val89 wrote:By the way, does anyone else have an opinion if Zyla's post counts as a potential Buzzword scumtell?
The irony
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:41 am
by Zyla
Aren't all the best people?
Also, you only need to put 'v' or 'uv' inside the square brackets, personally I find that much easier than locating the button
Pedit: I dunno, you just through out a buzzword yourself... /jk
Honestly though, I think that's the only serious post of mine that's really "buzzy"
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:41 am
by Lukewarm
In post 60, Val89 wrote:By the way, does anyone else have an opinion if Zyla's post counts as a potential Buzzword scumtell?
From what I can see, the 7for7 is the only one she has used, so I think it is too early to say that -- and now that you have pointed it out, it will likely never be useful to sort her.
However, I am pretty confident in my ability to have a solid read on her by the end of Day 1 -- I will keep you posted
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:44 am
by Zyla
In post 63, Lukewarm wrote: In post 60, Val89 wrote:By the way, does anyone else have an opinion if Zyla's post counts as a potential Buzzword scumtell?
From what I can see, the 7for7 is the only one she has used, so I think it is too early to say that -- and now that you have pointed it out, it will likely never be useful to sort her.
However, I am pretty confident in my ability to have a solid read on her by the end of Day 1 -- I will keep you posted
I on the other hand am confident that I need to look over Luke's posts 5 times, never trust a gut read, and at least take into consideration anything everyone else says about him. (Yes, I should be doing that with everyone, but still)
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:46 am
by Val89
In post 63, Lukewarm wrote:However, I am pretty confident in my ability to have a solid read on her by the end of Day 1 -- I will keep you posted
Interesting. Is that because you've played with her before, and have managed to correctly read her by the end of Day 1 in the past?
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:48 am
by Zyla
He correctly read me as scum in
Newbie 2065 and easily pocketed me in
2067, yeah
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:49 am
by Lukewarm
In post 65, Val89 wrote: In post 63, Lukewarm wrote:However, I am pretty confident in my ability to have a solid read on her by the end of Day 1 -- I will keep you posted
Interesting. Is that because you've played with her before, and have managed to correctly read her by the end of Day 1 in the past?
I have played 2 games with Zyla so far.
In our first game, she was scum, I was suspicious of pretty early in Day 1, then lead her elim Day 2.
In our second game, she was town, and I could see a distinct difference in how she played compared to the first (Although, I was scum that game)
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:55 am
by Pavowski
In post 60, Val89 wrote:
Oh, I agree completely, but 1for1 might well be reasonable, at least for the first couple of pages. I'll be sure to let you know if anything else pings my radar. I'm not adverse to adjusting my reads, particulary such early ones, if there is a reason to do so.
By the way, does anyone else have an opinion if Zyla's post counts as a potential
Buzzword scumtell?
It's weird but I dunno if it's scummy. Does 7for7 count as a buzzword? It's a pretty odd reference to make, especially about Val's ... 1 for 1 claim?
For that matter, does "buzzword" count as a buzzword?
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:58 am
by Zyla
According to the article, yes
But also, the 7for7 was partially referencing the fact that there was a 0for0 claim that someone made in our previous game about how they never lost a particular type of game (but failed to mention it wasn't one they'd ever played)
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:08 pm
by Pavowski
In post 47, Lukewarm wrote: In post 44, Val89 wrote:I still think since Not_Mafia is at E-2, we should just go ahead and make him the lim for the day rather than piviot to Lukewarm, though. We can deal with him tomorrow.
This is probably the scummiest sentence I have read.
The idea that any town player would already be ready to decide who should be the Day 1 elim on page 2 baffles me
Not_Mafia is only at E-2, because he is voting for himself right now lol
What, even, is this interaction, coming on page 2, before the game is even three hours old?
Do we really think Val intends to elim Not_Mafia at this point in the game?
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:14 pm
by Not_Mafia
If I were voting seriously at this point, I'd be voting Lukewarm
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:28 pm
by Lukewarm
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:56 pm
by alstroemerial
Of course, the game picks up as soon as I step away from my computer... Anyway...
In post 44, Val89 wrote:I still think since Not_Mafia is at E-2, we should just go ahead and make him the lim for the day rather than piviot to Lukewarm, though. We can deal with him tomorrow.
Even though my play with Val sample size is one (or rather, playing with anyone), this does seem very uncharacteristic. Val last time was self-admittedly really loquacious and consequently a little bit more indecisive. Even before putting his first serious vote on, he really thought it through with a longer post and reasoning instead of just, "welp."
Regarding Val's super long post about Not_Mafia, I interpreted it as a complete joke because nobody should be using that sort of logic seriously, and Val doesn't seem like the type. As a result, Luke's response threw me off a bit because it seemed to be taking it completely at face value. So I wasn't sure if Luke was, like, playing along, or...? Similarly in terms of
40, I'm like, uh, not everyone had posted yet and it was the first page? So I wasn't sure if it was serious or not. I mean, if it was, what I'll say is I was holding myself back from over-posting because I didn't want to monopolize the thread when not everyone had even confirmed yet.
In post 54, Lukewarm wrote: In post 50, marcistar wrote:sure it could describe newbie scum, but it could also describe newbie town just as well. those were p1 posts, i dont think its really weird for posts on p1 to seem that way.
Possibly -- When I voted them, I mainly wanted to see how they were going to react to me voting them / saying that they had not really engaged with the game at all -- but then I got side tracked with Val
Come back to me, I want to play with the famous "rising star", as I read someone call you on another thread.
In post 58, Lukewarm wrote:Maybe Val is just strange.
VOTE: alstroemerial[/unvote]
I saw 42 - do you have any thoughts about this game?
Ah here we go -- I have my eye on Zyla a bit already because [ongoing games] but it's more of a lean than a read at this point. My other thought is that I want to keep Not_Mafia around for at least a while because taking him out immediately just because he has a certain... history seems like a recipe for an easy miselim. So I don't love how fast that turned into a wagon, but again, I feel like we're still in a zone where the line between jokes and serious is thin. Jumping on him just because playing with him can be troublesome is too similar to my mistake in 2068 with GrandpaMo. That's one lesson I'm trying to take with me.
In post 70, Pavowski wrote:What, even, is this interaction, coming on page 2, before the game is even three hours old?
Do we really think Val intends to elim Not_Mafia at this point in the game?
^ A more concise version of what I was trying to get at earlier in this post
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:08 pm
by Val89
In post 73, alstroemerial wrote:Even before putting his first serious vote on, he really thought it through with a longer post and reasoning instead of just, "welp."
Unless I have reason to differ, I imagine you can expect the same in this game, too.
In post 73, alstroemerial wrote:I have my eye on Zyla a bit already because [ongoing games] but it's more of a lean than a read at this point.
In which direction is that lean? I am reading 'having your eye on' as 'scumlean', but I just want to clarify because that could potentially be taken in either direction.
