Newbie 680: In this town of Cookieland... Over!

[Barros]

LOL, Pops un-FoS you and you unvoted him.... maybe he wanted to keep the atentions off him....

[Barros]

Or maybe i was wrong...
Maybe you (YOUNG ERIC) are dropping votes on pops because you realized you were turning yourself in. You realized you were being too scummy by voting on pops so now you just unvote.

You put pops on a L-3 situation, then you realized you were being too scummy, now you unvote him and you didn't vote in anyone else cause you want to get rid of the atention.

ERIC, you're obviously scum..

Unvote: Usernamenotincluded

Vote: YOUNG ERIC

[YOUNG ERIC]

finally some conversation too base my judgments off of I don't suspect you Barros .... For now

[popsofctown]

Hm, i don't know Barros. I found YOUNG ERIC's response towny enough.
He changed an L-4 vote to an L-3 vote on a joke, before everyone checked in and therefore, before imo the random vote phase is "over".
I respond with partly omgus logic, partly reachy scum tell logic.
YOUNG ERIC pulls his vote back, because he realizes it was out of place.. and besides, he's already gotten everyone talking.

I think if he was mafia he would want to accelerate things, try to pull a fake tell out of me, or switch from a vote to an FoS to push a wagon on me.

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy, but i find his follow ups towny. I don't think you can vote him yet Barros

[Save The Dragons]

Vote Count of Doom

2 Young Eric (Moratorium, Barros)

1 Usernamenotincluded (popsofctown)
1 Guy0 (Usernamenotincluded)
1 popsofctown (Capricious)
1 Martin413 (guy0)
1 Capricious (My Milked Eek)

NV: Martin413, YOUNG ERIC

With 9 alive, 5 to lynch...

[Capricious]

Unvote, Vote: Barros

[/b]

[popsofctown]

Finally! my not-so-random voting system has been forgiven!

[Moratorium]

out of random phase already? that was quick...

Unvote

[guy0]

i'm going to have to agree that the random voting phase has been completed, i'm glad some good discussion is going on, but i think some people are being a little too aggressive.

unvote

[popsofctown]

Hey! i still think we should hold the nonrandom voting until after martin34 checks in. YOUNG ERIC's unvote sparked everything kind of early. but can we find out what martin34 or his replacement thinks of everything?

[My Milked Eek]

You're putting me at L-3 because it goes with a funny joke?

It's L-3...
-

3

Not 1.

Why are you freaking out over a second vote?

Protip; you'll be getting more votes during the course of the game.

Also, it's quite hypocrite of you to put an L-3 (lol) on UNI during the "random" stage.

It was a random vote, obviously i can't prove it's a real random vote. I felt intentionally switching it to avoid an L3 would be too biased for the random vote phase.

Why do you care so much about the random stage? If you had switched your vote to eg me instead of UNI, no one would have known. You make such a formality of it, I fear that you will be using it as an apology-blanket later up in the game.

@post 41: we shouldn't move out of the random phase before martin 413 checks in.

Why? To cover your ass?

I don't see why we need a 3 pages + random phase. It's not obligatory to have a random phase. In fact, my first game didn't have one (except for the very first post).

Stop holding on to the random phase, it makes you suspicious imo.

Hey! i still think we should hold the nonrandom voting until after martin34 checks in. YOUNG ERIC's unvote sparked everything kind of early. but can we find out what martin34 or his replacement thinks of everything?

Why should we hold the nonrandom votes? Any logical reason behind it? A replacement can read 3-4 pages and reply afterwards. It's not that hard. In fact waiting now, just stalls the game. Is that what you want? To stall an active game?

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy, but i find his follow ups towny. I don't think you can vote him yet Barros

Wait, what? "wee bit"? "towny"? "can't vote for him yet"?

Did you find the heat on your scumpartner to be a bit too hot?
His actions weren't protown at all. Unfossing and unvoting after he got some attention. He's afraid to stick his neck out.

Vote: popsofctown

Capricious; any reason why to vote for Barros?

[My Milked Eek]

EBWOP;

Forgot to unvote...

Unvote. Vote: popsofctown

[Barros]

Unvote, Vote: Barros

Why did you vote me? Some reason or it was just random?

[Barros]

I was talking to Capricious

[Moratorium]

I am getting bad vibes from two people right now. And a third by association.

First, popsofctown. Looking at My Milked Eek's attempt at a case in post #60, most of what's in there is fairly inane as far as actually being a scumtell. The one point that was made that I agree with, however, was the observation on the last statement:

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy, but i find his follow ups towny. I don't think you can vote him yet Barros.

This is a wishy-washy statement, and makes you look like you are trying to defend your buddy YOUNG ERIC while not bringing too much attention to yourself. (On further reflection, this makes me suspect YOUNG ERIC as well by association).


Second, Barros.

Or maybe I was wrong...
Maybe you (YOUNG ERIC) are dropping votes on pops because you realized you were turning yourself in. You realized you were being too scummy by voting on pops so now you just unvote.

You put pops on a L-3 situation, then you realized you were being too scummy, now you unvote him and you didn't vote in anyone else cause you want to get rid of the atention.

ERIC, you're obviously scum..

So first, I scoff at "L-3 situation"... oh noes!

Second, I scoff at your WIFOM-logic. Post #50: make a case. Post #51: make the opposite case. You aren't trying to come up with the best case against someone, you're throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and hoping someone picks up on your voodoo.

So. I suspect three people. There are only 2 mafia. And if I'm correct about one, the other I think is town. Quite the conundrum. I am going to refrain from voting at this point until I hear more, because I need to eliminate a suspect.

FoS: popsofctown (YOUNG ERIC by association as protected scumbuddy)
FoS: Barros

[popsofctown]

It's L-3...
-

3

Not 1.

Why are you freaking out over a second vote?

Protip; you'll be getting more votes during the course of the game.

I really emphasized the L-3 bit too much, it convoluted what i meant to say. The reason i used the word L-3, was to refute an anticipated argument from Young Eric, that voting for me was the same as any other random toss around vote.

I've admitted to an OMGUS component of my vote, but i did really have a reason:

The point i was trying to make, and it's logic based off the first few pages of a game i had read recently, is that scum try to cause innocents to get lynched without appearing responsible for the lynching. So i thought it was slightly scummy. And the vote itself might not lynch me, but the pressure might make me give a false scum tell (or some other person in the ensuing controversy), and he could leave that vote on me and say little, and it totally doesn't look like he was in charge of the innocent-lynch.

Also, it's quite hypocrite of you to put an L-3 (lol) on UNI during the "random" stage.

As i think Guy0 mentioned, YOUNG ERIC made an unvote -> vote. Like i said, i over-emphasized L-3. That wasn't the point, i was anticipating an argument (mentioned above) which probably never would've come.

Why do you care so much about the random stage? If you had switched your vote to eg me instead of UNI, no one would have known. You make such a formality of it, I fear that you will be using it as an apology-blanket later up in the game.

Prior to this game i was under the impression that the random stage is standard, and important. And to be honest.. i have this thing about cheating at a random generation method. I always decide what each outcome means, and bind myself to the outcome. Hm, actually i guess there's a reason behind that. I'm one of those people who has trouble choosing between two or three that are somewhere near equal. Sometimes i use coins to decide things. I've found if i cheat on my own coin toss, i get stuck in the same indecisive rut i was in (like if the coin says chocolate ice cream, and i disregard it i just wind up stuck between the two again.)

My point is... cheating on the number generator was definitely and totally out of the question. I hope you don't think i'm being overly defensive about the number generator, but i want to hammer it under the ground for good, because i think some of the misunderstanding of it comes from a fundamental difference between your personality and that of mine, not a question of strategic play.

@post 41: we shouldn't move out of the random phase before martin 413 checks in.

Why? To cover your ass?

I don't see why we need a 3 pages + random phase. It's not obligatory to have a random phase. In fact, my first game didn't have one (except for the very first post).

Stop holding on to the random phase, it makes you suspicious imo.

No, not to cover my ***. For a reason i'll explain more fully later on.

In answer to you command, if it makes me seem suspicious i'll drop it.

Unvote

Hey! i still think we should hold the nonrandom voting until after martin34 checks in. YOUNG ERIC's unvote sparked everything kind of early. but can we find out what martin34 or his replacement thinks of everything?

Why should we hold the nonrandom votes? Any logical reason behind it? A replacement can read 3-4 pages and reply afterwards. It's not that hard. In fact waiting now, just stalls the game. Is that what you want? To stall an active game?

Why i think everyone should show up before nonrandom voting:

Whenever someone talks, they increase their chances of giving off tells. Mafia greatly increase their chance of giving off real tells, while townies slightly increase their chances of giving off false tells.

If we start the nonrandom phase

after

everyone gets here, the scums are 2/9. If we get everyone to talk evenly, we have a pretty good chance, say 4/9, of scum tell showing before false scum tell.

But if not everyone participates the odds are worse. What if the absentee is scum? We can't accuse him later of being scum just because he wasn't here. Yet, when we all talk and try to find scum tells, our odds of finding scum has dropped. Only 1/8 people is scum. If i use the same ratio as the former example, that would give us a 1/4 chance of getting scum.

^^^That much is what was behind my actions. Now that i look at it, pretty much totally disregarded the other case, that the absentee isn't scum. That is indeed more likely, and indeed slightly increases our chance of getting scum. Now that i see that... i feel better about not waiting around.
Just to superglue my feet to the soapbox though... in the case that the absentee is not scum, advancing to voting without everyone present is still disadvantageous, because that absentee can't help you find scum.

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy, but i find his follow ups towny. I don't think you can vote him yet Barros

Wait, what? "wee bit"? "towny"? "can't vote for him yet"?

Did you find the heat on your scumpartner to be a bit too hot?
His actions weren't protown at all. Unfossing and unvoting after he got some attention. He's afraid to stick his neck out.

I encourage everyone to read this quote of me defending ERIC in context. It's a kneejerked reaction to Barros aggressive vote on ERIC, in a tone that sounds pretty much ready to drop a hammer.

To be honest, I didn't think his follow up was as suspicious as Barros makes out partly because i felt like i made a good argument for why he should take it back. I'm kind of seeing now that no one but me thought i had come up with a jewel of logic, and ERIC's withdrawal is pretty scummy. I alone criticized his vote, and his vote was for me.. a single critic who isn't a neutral party does indeed seem like too little pressure to cause the withdrawal. The post to the effect of "man, finally people are talking now" sees a bit contrived (if i know what that word means.). It's like a reasoning for his withdrawal that should've gone along with the brief post that included his withdrawal. At this point, it looks like distancing for me to vote ERIC, but i feel like i oughtta stand somewhere for now.

Vote: YOUNG ERIC (this post contains an unvote)

Anywhoo, if this ERIC + popsofctown thing catches on, recognize lynching either one of us confirms or denies it. I think ERIC is more suspicious than me, he's slower to justify his actions, quieter, less spineful.

Capricious; any reason why to vote for Barros?

I'd like to hear him say why too.

[popsofctown]

sorry for double post, but my post was at the same time as moratorium's...
moratorium, i've adressed everything you've brought up pretty much, in response to Milked Eek.

I agree with most of what you said about Barros. I had a different reason to FoS him, but it's kind of reachy, and by the time i wanted to say it it would look like attention diversion.. and it's pretty reachy and i think reachy makes you look bad.

FoS: Barros

[Moratorium]

That sure was a lot of words. End result: Vote the scumbuddy to throw suspicion. Then agree with my other FoS to get me off you.

Vote: popsofctown

[guy0]

pops's long post made him seem a little more scummy than he did before, considering I didn't understand the thing he said about it being a wee bit scummy and kindly told someone it wasn't time to vote yet. But he makes a decent point about barros that i'll have to look into more when barros posts more in the future, so, for now, i'll go with a

FoS: popsofctown

[popsofctown]

ok.... so the popsofctown + ERIC thing has caught on....

let's look at this carefully.

case 1: popsofctown was protecting ERIC because that's his scumbuddy: killing either popsofctown or ERIC will result in a mafia corpse. It's pretty much town win... you kill the other one, it's over.

case 2: popsofctown was protecting ERIC for a different reason. If we lynch popsofctown, we killed him only because of the popsofctown+ERIC theory. There is no other tell it's based off of, so there's just the good old 2/9 that i'm actually mafia.
If we lynch ERIC, we kill the guy based on the popsofctown+ERIC theory, but with the additional reasoning pointed out by Barros: ERIC seemed like he wouldn't really stick out his neck on something. He tries to slurk back to the background, and he still hasn't actually come up with a single reason for voting me on page 2, besides "Mosquitos are attracted to scum"

[Moratorium]

So your argument on why I shouldn't vote for you is:

*wave hands*

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN. ERIC IS THE TRUE SCUM.

*wave hands*

That's isn't a defense, that's a diversion.

There is no other tell it's based off of, so there's just the good old 2/9 that i'm actually mafia.

Your "other" tell right now is your voting history and FoS diversion. Just because you are trying to convince everyone that "hey, Eric is MUCH Scummier that me, he has *2* tells, I only have 1!" doesn't make you any less guilty in my eyes.

[popsofctown]

ERIC isn't the true scum.... there's just more reasons to lynch him independent of the supposed relationship between me and ERIC.
The FoS wasn't a diversion, and is a null tell anyhow. I'm trying to continue progress amidst my own suspicions.

@guy0... it's hard to answer 4 or so questions from Milked Eek without sounding scummier than before. I tried. My strategy for this game is to be as transparent as possible, and establish trust that way. It's obviously not working.

[guy0]

in fact you may just be playing of the idea that you and eric are working together, when you really aren't, so that if we lynch eric and find out that he was town, you become immune. What i just said seems to be to be a little convoluted, tell me if you understand what i'm trying to say

[guy0]

that was in response to moratorium's post

[popsofctown]

Well.... yeah that is what i'm doing. If ERIC was lynched and clean, it doesn't make me "immune", it just resets me back to 2/9, plus any tells unrelated to the ERIC + pops theory.

If he's lynched and scum, I'm as good as dead. One scum lynched, then one civilian lynched. But it will be one scum gone by day 3.. i think that's a good enough job.

What i would prefer altogether is for it to float away on it's own, and analyze all players equally as a possible scum... but that's not realistic.