Mini 763 - Carnival Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:20 am

Post by Empking »

Shinnen_no_Me wrote:To you, obviously.
When did I say there was something wrong with a vanilla claim?

I said that if I'm lying I worked out you were vanilla despite the fact that all claims/reveals were for PRs when I made that claim.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:39 am

Post by Nocmen »

I'm buying shinnen's claim.
I'll elaborate as soon as we get the final claim.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:42 am

Post by Grimmy »

The Final Claim...

I am the Prostitute.
Since the puppeteers are going to kill my customers, I have to do everything I can to PREVENT this.

Also, Im keeping my vote where it is. I have major doubts about Kari's claim. While he has proved to be a double voter, It seems to me to be an ability more attuned to a puppeteer than a carnival owner.

The reason I went after him in the beginning of the day was that I chose him as my target for role blocknig last night, which is also why I made a big deal of Shanba "leaving" rather than benig killed. Also, I was suspicious of Shanba on day one, so I chose her to RB on night one, but she ended up getting killed, regardless.

Grimmy
does not expect to live to see day 3 now that he has claimed (im a likely target for a NK unless I RB the right person)

So ill ask for some opinions before the day ends...

Who else do you think is scum, so I can RB them tonight to try to prevent a NK?
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Of course, Grimmy never seems to leave the random stage - even on like Day 3. And he seems to do okay.

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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:45 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Well, based on that Grimmy, I would say we lynch Emp today and you roleblock WLC tonight. Simple.

Nocmen, can you explain your reasoning on Shin and also answer my question before I vote.
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:57 am

Post by Kairyuu »

@Grimmy: The hell kinda claim is that? Where does a Prostitute fit in with a Carnival theme?
Also, Im keeping my vote where it is. I have major doubts about Kari's claim. While he has proved to be a double voter, It seems to me to be an ability more attuned to a puppeteer than a carnival owner.
I want you to explain, in detail, why a double vote would be a scum power. Also, I want you to refute each point I have made on the matter. Until then, your assertions are worthless.
The reason I went after him in the beginning of the day was that I chose him as my target for role blocknig last night, which is also why I made a big deal of Shanba "leaving" rather than benig killed.
That means absolutely nothing. In Facedown and Thirsty Mafia, we could submit any sort of kill method we wanted, and in most theme games each scum role has a different kill flavor.

Also, if I were scum, then it is much more likely that I would
not[/b] be the one to submit the kill, on the off chance that it could be traced back to me in some way (I can link you to the Wheel of Time Mafia quicktopic where I was concerned about kill tracing if you'd like), since then I would be an extremely powerful scum power role, and it would be of utmost importance for me to survive to endgame.
does not expect to live to see day 3 now that he has claimed (im a likely target for a NK unless I RB the right person)
Because yeah, a roleblocker is a much more likely target than a double voter when we have a chance of going into lylo.
Who else do you think is scum, so I can RB them tonight to try to prevent a NK?
I am 99% certain that the remaining two scum are contained within this list:

Empking
Grimmy
WLC

If Empking flips scum, you should roleblock WLC, and if there is no kill, then it is very likely that he is the last remaining scum. If Emp isn't scum, then use your discretion.

@VP and Nocmen: Only one of you should vote for Empking once we are ready, because I am going to use my hidden vote to prove I can hammer with it.

Also, if I am alive tomorrow, I will be placing my vote on someone at the start of the Day (who it is depends on Night results and lynch results) to prove that the hidden vote is not one-shot.
Because, no matter how you dress it up, that's what the world is. A community of idiots doing a series of things until the world explodes and we all die.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:12 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Of course, the only problem is that if Grimmy is the scum he might just not submit a night kill and then claim he roleblocked WLC.

Nocmen, you want to put the vote on or should I?
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:19 am

Post by WeyounsLastClone »

I'm a bit wary of the prostitute claim. I'm also a bit wary of Kairyuu desperately wanting to be the one to hammer. He already fulfilled my extra request for a proof. It almost feels like Kairyuu has some sort of win condition that depends on a hammer.

And grimmy, if you're really a town roleblocker, I think you should block Kairyuu if Emp flips town. If Emp flips scum, I think you should target one of the two claiming vanilla. Somehow it feels they're playing it safe.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:37 am

Post by Nocmen »

I'll do the vote.

Vote: Empking


I think the vendors are the townies. So that means, I really have no powers.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:43 am

Post by Kairyuu »

@WLC:
I'm also a bit wary of Kairyuu desperately wanting to be the one to hammer. He already fulfilled my extra request for a proof. It almost feels like Kairyuu has some sort of win condition that depends on a hammer.
Fist off, I'm not desperate. If you think I shouldn't hammer, then that's fine with me. I was under the impression that you wanted as much proof of lack of restriction as possible.

Also, and at the risk of sounding cliche after DDD, why, if I had this secret vote all game, and never used it, didn't I hammer D1 or D2 when I had the perfect opportunities?
I think you should block Kairyuu if Emp flips town.
Sure, he should block the person who has proved himself to be a power role that functions during the Day, and therefore can't be roleblocked (and if I
can
be roleblocked then Grimmy is lying about yesterdays target). If I was scum, and Emp was town, then there would be no reason for me to make the kill tonight, since I would know I would be the target of the roleblock. This idea does not make logical sense.

@Grimmy: If Emp flips town, use your discretion. If we direct the block then the scum can evade it. If Emp flips scum, block WLC, as he seems to be getting a bit jumpy about being the block target.
Because, no matter how you dress it up, that's what the world is. A community of idiots doing a series of things until the world explodes and we all die.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:48 am

Post by Grimmy »

works for me.

We shall find out soon enough as Nocmen hammered.

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Of course, Grimmy never seems to leave the random stage - even on like Day 3. And he seems to do okay.

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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:58 am

Post by WeyounsLastClone »

I don't feel I'm jumpy. I just find it stupid to block about the only townie who seems to have a nightpower.

Also, grimmy has a point about the night results. During night 1 ortolan was obviously killed by the Puppeteers, if you go by the flavor is written. Night 2 seemed the puppeteers didn't actually get their nightkill. If we're to believe grimmy blocked Kairyuu, that's certainly something to investigate.

And bringing up DDD and him being a even-day jester isn't really a great idea to prove your point. It just proves that things can be different than they seem.
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:13 am

Post by Kairyuu »

There's no hammer yet. We haven't seen the votecount that you were waiting for WLC. Should I hammer, or should I keep my vote where it is and let VP hammer so that my vote shows up on Nocmen when the Day ends? I'll leave it up to you.
Because, no matter how you dress it up, that's what the world is. A community of idiots doing a series of things until the world explodes and we all die.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:15 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Weyouns, do you think Emp's claim is more or less suspicious than Kairyuu's? Shinnen's? Grimmy's? Mine?
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:34 pm

Post by SilverPhoenix »

The Thirteenth Votecount

Kairyuu ~ 1
(Grimmy)

Grimmy ~ 1
Nocmen ~ 0
Empking ~ 3
(WeyounsLastClone, Kairyuu, Nocmen)

Shinnen_no_Me ~ 0
VP Baltar ~ 0
WeyounsLastClone ~ 1
(VP Baltar)

Not Voting ~
(Shinnen_no_Me, Empking)


With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:37 pm

Post by Shinnen_no_Me »

Well? Kairyuu, will you hammer please?
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:44 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

Alrighty then. I PMed the mod about my vote not moving, and also hammered in the PM, so the Day should be ending next time SP checks his inbox.

So, Empking. Were you scum?
Because, no matter how you dress it up, that's what the world is. A community of idiots doing a series of things until the world explodes and we all die.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:25 pm

Post by SilverPhoenix »

The Final Votecount

Kairyuu ~ 1
(Grimmy)

Grimmy ~ 0
Nocmen ~ 0
Empking ~ 4
(WeyounsLastClone, Kairyuu, Nocmen)

Shinnen_no_Me ~ 0
VP Baltar ~ 0
WeyounsLastClone ~ 1
(VP Baltar)

Not Voting ~
(Shinnen_no_Me, Empking)


With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.


The final vote was cast. The owner said "Out with you, Emp!" And it was done. The Puppeteer's Apprentice was sad: he had big dreams of grandeur that his Master told him they could accomplish, but it all seemed fake, now that he was dead. At least Empking could follow his brother and hopefully find a new life. Not sure what professions require hypnotism though...

Empking,
Mafia Puppeteer's Apprentice
leaves the carnival on Day 3.

I hereby announced that
the Carnies
consisting of WeyounsLastClone, Kairyuu, Shanba, Grimmy, Nocmen, Shinnen_no_Me, and VP Baltar AND
the Even-Day Jester
who was Debonair Danny DiPetro have won Carnival Mafia! Congrats!

Role PMs/Night Actions/Final Thoughts to come. There was no scum night talk since Chief died D1.

I'll say right now that a lot of my cool things that could have happened didn't. But w/e. Tis' the way of Mafia.
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:27 pm

Post by Shinnen_no_Me »

Yay! We won!!!!! ALRITE!!! GO TOWN!!!! KUDOS TO US!!!! (Not you, DDD :P)
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:33 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

Very Nice! Looks like we only had to contend with two scum instead of three. Kind of odd, but it works.

-dances-

As a sidenote, I lied slightly in my claim. I tried to hammer DDD D1 when he got to L-1, but someone unvoted first. Also, I asked the mod to have me autohammer Chief when she reached L-1, but DDD got his vote in before the mod checked the thread, so that failed too.

Oh well, we still won!
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:43 pm

Post by SilverPhoenix »

Vanilla Role PM wrote:You are a [Food] Vendor. Your business thrives on the business of the carnival. With the Puppeteers' plans, he would do away with all of “your types”. You cannot stand for this! You must vote them out!

You are a Vanilla Townie. Your only power is your vote. You win when the Puppeteers are dead.
Please /confirm by PM.
Note: There was three, Turkey Leg, Waffle, and Popcorn. They had no future roles (like Nocmen thought they might have :wink:). They were Shinnen_no_Me, Nocmen, and VP Baltar
One-Shot-Vig wrote:You are the Grizzled War Veteran. You fought in America during the War of 1812, the Napoleonic Wars in Europe, and several other insurrections as a mercenary. As your body has become decrepit through age and all of the constant fighting, you decided to run the gun show at the carnival. Since you spent your previous monies from fighting on booze and women, you want the Puppeteers out so that you can continue to get money. Good thing you’ve killed many men before…

You are a One-Shot Vig. During any night, you can send me the name of someone and they will die. You only can do this once in the game. You win when the Puppeteers are dead.
Please /confirm by PM.
Note: Can be roleblocked. The wars happened quite close to each other, I know, but he's a mercenary, he doesn't have to fight the entire war. :P He was WLC.
Tracker Role PM wrote:You are the Janitor. You are a simple man, lovable to the highest degree. You know a lot about the night habits of the carnival members, as you are out cleaning the fairgrounds. You just want things to return to normal so you can keep your job…

You are a "Weak" Tracker. Every night, you can send me the name of someone and I will tell you if they were home (i.e. they had a night action). You win when the Puppeteers are dead.
Note: I originally called it "weak" since it can only see if someone is home, but I realized that weak implies death if he targetted a scum, which was not the case. It was just a Tracker in reality, so I revealed it that way.
Double Voter Role PM wrote:You are the Carnival Owner. You are dissatisfied with the brainwashed patrons coming out of the Puppeteer’s show, and the strife it has caused the other carnival members. As you are the owner of the carnival, you naturally get a larger voice than everyone else. Hopefully your influence can get things done about the Puppeteers quickly!

You are a Secret Double-Voter. Every day, you can send me the name of someone and I will add a second vote to them, with no limit the amount of times you can change it. You win when the Puppeteers are dead.
Note: Sorry about screwing up earlier today. Could have cost him the game, since he changed his vote to Nocmen. :oops: He was Kairyuu.
Prostitute Role PM wrote:
You are the Prostitute. You are such a smokin’ woman that many of the carnival members want to…enjoy your company at night. The Puppeteers are potentially going to kill your customers, so you want to do everything in your power to ensure that doesn’t happen…

You are a Roleblocker. Every night, you can send me the name of someone and they will have their action blocked (if they have one they used). You win when the Puppeteers are dead.
Note: Cannot block the Double Voter since his action is a day one, not a night one. Can block the Puppeteer. He was Grimmy.
Even-Day Jester Role PM wrote:You are the Joker. You’ve enjoyed the massive popularity of your show at the Carnival for years. While it has been a fun ride, recent events have made you ponder your future. With the “aggressive expansion” of the Puppeteer’s show, you have decided to make your exit. But how should you do so? Quietly leaving would just cause the Puppeteer to go headstrong, killing the Puppeteer would be silly,….all you know is that you want to go out with a bang…

You are a Even-Day Jester. You win when you are lynched on an even day. However, you gain a second chance if the Puppeteer targets you at night, and is lynched (the second chance doesn’t need to happen on an even day).
Note: This is the bastard role of this game. I tried to warn you guys in the opening flavor. Anyway, he had a high chance of winning, and I intended it to be that way. If he won via his second option (getting killed by the Puppeteer then the Puppeteer getting lynched), he would have been the only winner, unless the lynched Puppeteer was the last one.
Puppeteer Role PM wrote:You are the Puppeteer. You are handsome, fun-loving, but extremely competitive. Your carnival show is growing in popularity, second only to the Joker. But your rise has meteoric ever since you and your Apprentice learned hypnosis with your puppets! Nevertheless, the other carnival performers are starting to get in the way of your massive popularity, so you’ve decided it is time to go solo. You figure that you could hypnotize people, have them do your chores, then kill them. So easy!
You are allied with the Puppeteer’s Apprentice [PlayerName], and you can talk at night in this QT: [link]. Every night, you choose someone to “puppeteer”. If that person has any night/day powers, you gain them for that night/day. You then kill your “puppet” that night. You win when the Puppeteers compose 50% of the town or nothing can prevent the same.
Note: Can be blocked.
Apprentice Role PM wrote:You are the Puppeteer’s Apprentice. You’ve been at the Carnival your entire life, ever since the Puppeteer found you outside his tent. While slightly brainwashed, you are a willing part of the Puppeteer’s plan to eliminate the other carnival members to gain the massive riches that you only get a portion of now.

You are allied with the Puppeteer [PlayerName], and you can talk at night in this QT: [link]. If the Puppeteer dies, every night you choose someone to “puppeteer”. If that person has any night/day powers, you gain them for that night/day. You then kill your “puppet” that night. You win when the Puppeteers compose 50% of the town or nothing can prevent the same.
]
Sibling Role PM wrote:
You are the Balloon-Animal-Maker. You’ve found out that you have a long-lost brother that was left at the Carnival at birth, and you finally found him. You took up the job as the Balloon-Animal-Maker just so you can get him out of the carnival back to his rightful family. Now if you can just get him away from that wretched Puppeteer...
You are a Sibling with the Puppeteer’s Apprentice, but you do not know who it is. You only have your vote. You win when the Puppeteers are dead.
Note: If the Puppeteer ever tried to target the Sibling, the Apprentice would find out he is his brother and kill the Puppeteer in grief. If the Apprenctice targeted the Sibling, it doesn't matter.
Last edited by SilverPhoenix on Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:51 pm

Post by Nocmen »

So , the whole thing behind my role...
Yes, when I read the PM, I read the wrong role PM, hence why I confused my win condition. I thus then started making shit up about it, in order to seem like I had a different role, and safe myass. In hindsight, it was a great and yet horrible move, but somehow confirmed myself in the third day.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:56 pm

Post by SilverPhoenix »

My Thoughts

Considering that this was my true first game, as my first Open Game was JDodge's "experiment" in sending a broken setup through the queue, I had great fun and it went ok minus some mishaps. One of which was including the town wincon. :S That could have prevented the controversy on Day 1 and it caused some lesser experienced players (ahem ChiefSkye) to make major mistakes. But everything is a learning experience, for players and mods alike! :wink:

I also need to decide within the context of the game whether or not flavor should be helpful. Obviously, the beginning flavor hinted at two enemy factions, one possibly being a Jester, but the Role PMs were taken as having information, when I didn't intend them to be.

The power roles were intended to be balanced against the Puppeteer, but highly advantageous should he get them. It is why I had to make the DV secret, since if the DV died at night, the power would be useless to the Puppeteer (since he would give himself away). A lot of interesting possibilities could have turned out, but none of them did. :(

Behind my decision for the Sibling to "leave", I thought it was the best way flavor-wise. Since Siblings are usually scum-town, the connection was clear.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:02 pm

Post by Nocmen »

I think you did things pretty well, but yea, I think you may have done the PMs wrong. The fact that two other townies had Vendor roles that sounded a lot like mine made me almost feel certain they were town, unless you had given the scum a fake claim.
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Post by Shinnen_no_Me »

Excellent game, SilverPhoenix. We were kind of lucky, I admit, but still, justice prevailed in the end!
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Post by SilverPhoenix »

My next game will probably stay away from having info hidden in flavor. I should have anticipate more talk about Role PMs, considering the game was closed.

(BTW, my next game will probably be a Large Theme titled "Sheep and Wolves". It isn't quite balanced yet, but be on the lookout for it. I'm not sure when I'm going to run it yet, but if you want to /prein you can. :wink:)
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