As iec put it. Gaps in logic. Lines of comments that do not come from a real place.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:03 am
by Albert B. Rampage
What do you think of Victor and All is Who?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:08 am
by PeregrineV
All right, all done!!
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:21 am
by PeregrineV
Player comments in general, first.
I. Southern Gothic (pirate mollie + telltaleheart hydra)
II. All is Who (Who + Jingle hydra)
IV. Flames682
VII. VictorDeAngelo
XIII. FourTrouble
No comment
VI. Andrius
Been a long time since I played with Andrius. Don't recall alignment or style, so will take everything at face value.
VIII. Albert B. Rampage
XI. Pine
Strong tendency to read as scum every game. Usually wrong, as the odds have it, but that doesn't make me not do it.
Somewhat gut, not feeling ABR scum. When we day1 lynched him in the Magic mafia, I was feeling he was town by day's end, but it took a while to get there. Would like to see more of play like that, but like I said so far, gut read for now.
Pine was an early scumread. Dumb claim lessened it, because easier for scum to NOT do stuff like that.
IX. Iecerint
X. Nachomamma8
Just finished a game with both of you. Similar to Farside/Konowa below, you were both town, and so when I had to dodge you in Zodiac, I was keenly aware of your play as town.
Would like to feel some of that now.
V. farside22
XII. Titus
Konowa
Just finished a mini with these two (Konowa) in which I was scum and had to dodge both of them. Since their townlook was glaring to me that game, I was hoping to see the same here. Farside, while having less posts than before, is staying the course in terms of logic and sumhunting criteria.
Konowa (who I had to hard-push for crap reasons last game) I was really expecting more from. That more did not appear. But, Titus is here now, and so we'll see where she takes us.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:47 am
by PeregrineV
Playwise, thinking Southern is town. Farside as town. Pine, ABR, Andrius, weak town.
Who, I want to feel is town, but I also get this feeling.
↑Iecerint wrote:it never feels like I'm learning anything about that slot when I read their posts.
Starting with this.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:11 am
by Andrius
FRATRES
southern gothic
all is who
nacho
pine
farside
flames
ADVERSARII
peregrinev
fourtrouble
ABR
Iece wrote:
1. It is only possible for scum to believe it if ABR is in fact scum.
Not true.
Fakeclaiming Townie claims Cop and fakes a Guilty on another townie. Scum obviously go along with it, as its a free lynch. Townie dies.
Next day, they lynch the Fakeclaiming Townie who lied. Townie dead.
Two lynches under their belts with little to no work involved besides a 'Follow the Cop' routine, which, if the claim is credible and believeable, all player would be right to do. Town would not go against a credible investigation, and scum would do likewise (barring gambits!) merely to appear town.
That's my argument - that scum would instantly jump on a fake guilty on town because it nets them townpoints, lets them blend in with the mass of Follow the Cop, and then that would set up them for a free lynch, as the town would (rightfully so) pursue the fakeclaiming townie.
Iece wrote:
2. There is no utility to setting up the lynch chain on Pine if ABR is in fact scum.
If scum would have died to the fakeclaim then of course there would be no follow-up. My argument is that scum would play 'Follow the Cop' because it would net them two town lynches off a townie's mistake and avoid most all responsibility for it themselves.
Iece wrote:1. His early townread on me seemed a little strong to me (I can follow it, but it seemed stronger than I expected),
I'm known for developing reads based on one post or one thing. Not saying that they are correct, only that it is how I play.
See: Storm of Swords Mafia
iece wrote:
2. His motive in asking for my read on PeregrineV indirectly is really unclear, especially in light of an apparent townread on me. Why ask his townread in particular? Why ask it of his townread indirectly?
I wanted to know what you thought without immediately leading into WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PEREGRINE FOR DOING THIS HUH?
You were the (one of?) the only player around.
You were a town-read.
↑All is Who wrote:I'll see your townread on andy, and raise you an assertion that there's scum on his wagon.
I would be interested in elaborations on Andy being town, though. The best one I can come up with is that ABR didn't really hesitate to vote him.
Iece, since you have more experience with ABR than I, how does ABR play as scum?
Would this be something he does as scum - bussing a buddy D1 without reasoning?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that you think ABR is scum, and his eagerness to vote me without a second thought proves we are not scum together?
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:The half-baked attempts at shifting attention away from Andrius and to me are disappointing.
It is only half-baked as I did not perform the baking.
Bread puns for the win.
↑Albert B. Rampage wrote:You're right...PeregrineV instead of Souther Gothic.
Does peregrine reading the thread but have no reads not ring the ABR ScumDar?
↑Iecerint wrote:Andy-PV does make some sense because Andy is probably more likely to pick up on his scumfriend making a perceived "slip" like saying he's read and doesn't have reads.
I don't get what you're implying here?
The tell isn't new - it defined my read on Mikujin in Storm of Swords.
↑FourTrouble wrote:I don't see what's so scummy about ABR. I'd much rather lynch Andrius or one of the folks opposing his lynch.
its almost like you haven't read a thing since your last post
Lynch it with me?
↑FourTrouble wrote:Also, Andrius isn't burnt out - he had a break, right? - so his level of investment isn't very telling. More telling is who he votes for, when, and why. That stuff suggests he's scum.
I didn't have a break - I left MS. For good.
And I'll most likely be leaving when I'm done here.
If/when Fourtrouble flips scum, remind me to re-evaluate farside.
Peregrine has listed 5 no comment reads, not including myself. The only scum-read I'm getting from him is a weak pine scumread. Hasn't done much to assuage my doubts.
Am willing to move to ABR, though I think FourTrouble is more likely scum.
FRATRES
southern gothic
all is who
nacho
pine
iece
farside
flames
ADVERSARII
fourtrouble
ABR
peregrinev
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:19 am
by Andrius
farside wrote:I don't see someone trying to figure players out.
I don't mean to be rude, but you're not reading hard enough, or understanding what I'm saying.
No, I'm not chain-posting like I used to.
No, I'm not active as I was.
Yes, I left the site for a year and during which changed far more than I thought possible.
I have been asking questions (even if ignored) and trying to figure a couple things out.
Does ABR seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Does FourTrouble seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Does Nacho seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Re: FourTrouble.
You wall quote entire posts of mine, even if they are not all related to FourTrouble. It looks like more than it actually is.
I realize I butchered a quote in /m186.
I voted FourTrouble, and then he showed up right afterwards and confirmed the read on him.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:20 am
by Albert B. Rampage
↑Andrius wrote:Does ABR seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Does FourTrouble seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Does Nacho seem like someone trying to figure players out?
You're apparently townreading Nacho according to your list. Why did you add him to me and FourTrouble who you read as scum?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:23 am
by Andrius
Yes, I do think Nacho is town.
Nacho hasn't quite been involved as he usually is (holiday season aside, of course) and I do miss leading heroic charges of townblocs with him, but he's on the list because he's generally seen as town, even if he hasn't been around in the past week to 'figure players out'. So he's there for comparative reasons!
Does that make sense?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:25 am
by Albert B. Rampage
I'm not making sense of it, no.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:25 am
by Albert B. Rampage
Comparative reasons?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:31 am
by Andrius
Okay.
Farside is equating 'figuring players out' with being town.
I am, to her, not doing that and am thus not figuring players out.
I put FourTrouble on the list because he doesn't seem to post often nor be particularly interested in anyone but me, so he's also not seemingly 'figuring players out'. Which would also implicate him as scum, according to her logic.
Thus Nacho is there. He, who most of us (myself included!) see as town, has not been around as much as we may like, thus he is also not 'figuring players out'. Does that make him scum as well?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:32 am
by Andrius
Leaving for now. Spend more time on this than I expected. Will, of course, be back.
Iece wrote:
1. It is only possible for scum to believe it if ABR is in fact scum.
Not true.
Fakeclaiming Townie claims Cop and fakes a Guilty on another townie. Scum obviously go along with it, as its a free lynch. Townie dies.
Next day, they lynch the Fakeclaiming Townie who lied. Townie dead.
Two lynches under their belts with little to no work involved besides a 'Follow the Cop' routine, which, if the claim is credible and believeable, all player would be right to do. Town would not go against a credible investigation, and scum would do likewise (barring gambits!) merely to appear town.
That's my argument - that scum would instantly jump on a fake guilty on town because it nets them townpoints, lets them blend in with the mass of Follow the Cop, and then that would set up them for a free lynch, as the town would (rightfully so) pursue the fakeclaiming townie.
If I ever enter a meta where town who do what you are describing, especially without intent to renege, are not immediately blacklisted by mod so as to prevent this from ever happening again, I will leave the site.
Your reaction to "2" is predicated on believing that we live in that meta (or at least believing that I could believe it), so I won't address it separately.
Andy wrote:
Iece wrote:1. His early townread on me seemed a little strong to me (I can follow it, but it seemed stronger than I expected),
I'm known for developing reads based on one post or one thing. Not saying that they are correct, only that it is how I play.
See: Storm of Swords Mafia
OK. This was listed mostly because this is what led me to read your subsequent posts in a more critical light than I might otherwise had done.
Andy wrote:
iece wrote:
2. His motive in asking for my read on PeregrineV indirectly is really unclear, especially in light of an apparent townread on me. Why ask his townread in particular? Why ask it of his townread indirectly?
I wanted to know what you thought without immediately leading into WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PEREGRINE FOR DOING THIS HUH?
You were the (one of?) the only player around.
You were a town-read.
I would be interested in elaborations on Andy being town, though. The best one I can come up with is that ABR didn't really hesitate to vote him.
Iece, since you have more experience with ABR than I, how does ABR play as scum?
Would this be something he does as scum - bussing a buddy D1 without reasoning?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that you think ABR is scum, and his eagerness to vote me without a second thought proves we are not scum together?
I was suggesting that Who might be townreading you mainly because ABR was really comfortable voting for you, and Who was scumreading ABR. He later basically confirmed as much.
In that passage I was mainly talking about Who's scumread on ABR rather than my own, but it's true that I was wary of ABR, so your gloss is basically fine.
Andy wrote:
↑Iecerint wrote:Andy-PV does make some sense because Andy is probably more likely to pick up on his scumfriend making a perceived "slip" like saying he's read and doesn't have reads.
I don't get what you're implying here?
The tell isn't new - it defined my read on Mikujin in Storm of Swords.
The line that you focused on from PV is not something I had noticed, but you noticed it, so there might have been a reason for that. Your information here that it's a read you like could also explain you having noticed it. My thinking was that you might have been worried that someone would notice your scumfriend's error and tried to link it to another player (i.e., hence the oddly specific decision -- explained by you above as me being the only one around around -- to ask me about it and the decision to reveal that it was PereV indirectly).
I agree with you that FourTrouble is kinda sketchy.
farside wrote:I don't see someone trying to figure players out.
I don't mean to be rude, but you're not reading hard enough, or understanding what I'm saying.
No, I'm not chain-posting like I used to.
No, I'm not active as I was.
Yes, I left the site for a year and during which changed far more than I thought possible.
I have been asking questions (even if ignored) and trying to figure a couple things out.
Does ABR seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Does FourTrouble seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Does Nacho seem like someone trying to figure players out?
Re: FourTrouble.
You wall quote entire posts of mine, even if they are not all related to FourTrouble. It looks like more than it actually is.
I realize I butchered a quote in /m186.
I voted FourTrouble, and then he showed up right afterwards and confirmed the read on him.
ABR reads like a jackolope. I don't think anything he's said is very serious and he is a scum read of mine.
FourTrouble came in and made views. Don't be but hurt because your a scum read
Nacho: ummmm yes. Tell me how it is you took a bunch of things I said and only focused on one point?
You seemed to ignore my questions to you completely about the line of logic you reached from calling Flames town to finding my interaction with Flames interesting?
also why:
I have a bias. I found the reaction suspect because he was just like "oh ok i dont necessarily believe you're a cop but if you are and you are serious this is how today and tomorrow will work just in case'. I saw a scum-motivation behind it in the 'set up two mislynches from a townie's fakeclaim.
I don't see Iece as a big HERP DERP player and, as town, making an elaborate this is what we'll do in both situations thing. I think town would either start asking questions about the claim to clarify, insta-believe it, or instantly disbelieve it.
Does that make sense?
Was only Iec's behavior noted and not ABR's during the exchange?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:34 pm
by PeregrineV
↑Iecerint wrote:The line that you focused on from PV is not something I had noticed, but you noticed it, so there might have been a reason for that. Your information here that it's a read you like could also explain you having noticed it. My thinking was that you might have been worried that someone would notice your scumfriend's error and tried to link it to another player (i.e., hence the oddly specific decision -- explained by you above as me being the only one around around -- to ask me about it and the decision to reveal that it was PereV indirectly).
I saw it as baiting you, asking about the behavior prior to pointing out the behavior. You seemed to say "It's not alignment indicative of Pine" x2, but Andrius points out that it's my post, not Pine's.
I think this means you are not scum together, since it would have just been a lead-in for you both to pile votes on me. But, it looks like Andrius wasn't using it as a reason to call me scum, more as way to test you. Which leads me to lean town on him.
Your reaction (of not being easily led) would make me think town for you, but after your 316 and 318, a reversal on your position would have painted you as scum, so your reaction overall leaves me at the null-spot I was at before.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:36 pm
by Iecerint
I don't understand what you mean by the reversal painting me as scum. Clarify?
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:41 pm
by PeregrineV
↑Iecerint wrote:I don't understand what you mean by the reversal painting me as scum. Clarify?
I feel like your 316 and 318 basically said that it was OK not to have any reads at this point. But, in both of those posts I felt like you thought Pine was being referred to. Had you said "Yes, no reads is scummy" upon finding out it was me, that would have been obviously scummy. And I think you are a better player than that.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:52 pm
by Iecerint
I didn't think Andy meant Pine; I mentioned Pine only because his antics might account for a lack of content, which might create the impression that players didn't have reads.
I guess the way I took him at first was something like "Are the players who aren't pushing anything right now scummy?" And I said that Pine creating an event and the holidays creating inactivity meant that the answer was "Not really."
