Mafiascum.net

duppen ISO - Part 3:

324: Clarification of #319.
326: Engages in an argument with karnos over the meaning of OMGUS - does it just apply to votes, or not? Fluff.
327: Accuses karnos of tunneling, which is cute. Hoses down karnos' BDT push. Coincidentally (not), karnos has been saying BDT and - yes - ploben are scumbuddies. Suggests maybe karnos v BDT is TvT - this is interesting, because it suggests that duppen really thinks karnos is Town.
329: Encourages karnos to move his vote to BDT.
331: More fluff about the scope of the term "OMGUS".

And there you have it - the totality of duppen's input to the game thus far. It can literally all be summed up as "Attack karnos, defend ploben/Dunstall". Nothing at all on several players, everything just serves the purpose of, ultimately, protecting ploben and, to a lesser extent, Dunstrall. Everyone he mentions is on the ploben case in some way - me, karnos, ranger, Florestan - or fighting that wagon - Dunstrall)

I think [ploben, duppen, Dunstrall] is a real possibility for the scum team, maybe without daytalk.

In post 499, duppin wrote:

In post 452, Ranger wrote:

Persivul wrote: It's funny that people keep on thinking this is the reason why I'm scumreading ploben.

Wow! Even the Mod is scumreading ploben???

And yes, I know this was just a hilarious example of misquoting...

Haha, oh man. My goose is cooked. Mod confirmed scum.

In post 499, duppin wrote: @Chip, everyone already knows you think me and ploben could be scumbuddies, but you'd be wrong. Would you like me to respond to all of your points or are you just sharing your thoughts?

I'm saying you look scummy to me. Just incredibly focussed on defending ploben, partly by attacking karnos, and to the exclusion of everything else. Doesn't look Town to me.

In post 503, ploben wrote:Haha, oh man. My goose is cooked. Mod confirmed scum.

You finally got Mod confirmed, only not in the way you wanted

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but that COULD be a weird kind of Freudian slip by duppen.

In post 505, Chip Butty wrote:

In post 503, ploben wrote:Haha, oh man. My goose is cooked. Mod confirmed scum.

You finally got Mod confirmed, only not in the way you wanted

Yeah, that went sidewise really quick.

I thinking lurking scum is very dangerous in this particular game. This yields to little to no associations and makes it very tough for town to evaluate.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

I want to say 1 thing first, which is that if we have mod confirmed scum ranger, Karnos isn't at all who I would expect to be her partner. Karnos wasn't getting QLed, especially after my post (which is why I made that post since a QL is hilariously bad right now, if Karnos flips town the game is in a really bad spot b/c y'all got lazy).

In post 480, Ranger wrote:I'm going to skip Chip Butty unless there's actually a serious need for it. I believe he's mostly townread. I mean, I could share

my

reasons for townreading him, but not much of a point doing so when everyone is townreading him.

Instead, the reason Florestan immediately became a townread is because of 20: THIS is a reason why ploben became a scumread. I liked the follow-through in 24 as well. 52 was an excellent vote, following through and making a valid point about ploben. I also like the tone behind 80: this isn't scum trying to be helpful without being helpful (I'll show you an example of

that

later!), this is town annoyed and calling people out. I also like 84. 163 is a fairly decent first-time encounter with me, but I really liked 165. Florestan themselves points out how the effort behind 284 was town, but some particular highlights include the BTD6 read and the ploben read. 368 and 403 also read as town ways to handle their vote. Then, we get 451, which is an excellent question.

All-in-all, Florestan is really, really town, even if Florestan's current reads kind-of suck.

(one of your points was a stretch and another was technically wrong but still a good read(you would probably vote me if I told you what it was though so we're not going to do that), hard not get pocketed). Going back to my reads, Alpaca I see your point, but I don't believe that you believe your panther and dunn reads. That was the read I really wanted to hear and I got none of it. Also on Ploben, you called my read on him a highlight, so why is the town paranoia stuff that I described not valid?

In post 454, Ranger wrote:

PantherPunt wrote:but I have a hard time believing Ranger actually believed that, and see more likelihood that it's a nefarious attempt to mislead

So your theory is, I as scum, tried to clear my scumbuddy, off of something that the mod would be obligated to tell the town was wrong?

Yeah, no.

This is stretching the original point. While as said before your buddy probably isn't Karnos, I have no idea what world the mod has anything to do with Karnos's alignment. This really confuses me.

In post 457, Ranger wrote:For comparison, this is me while alive.
Compare and contrast, same game, this is me once dead. Same player, same alignment, same wincon, same goal: kill scum.
Entirely different levels.

Because the former was my standard earlygame approach: empty listing, which allows others to fill in the blanks and take guesses.
The latter was when I actually got serious and doubled-down.

Here, I have not been serious yet.
And if PantherPunt were town, he would have recognized this. Especially given he blacklisted me for that game. (Thus my surprise to learn he willingly replaced in this game.)

, is that your Panther read, cause that is infinitely worse than your townreads. This is where your slot goes from good reads to wtf.

In post 462, Dunnstral wrote:Also you're voting ploben (the wagon) and not me, but you're casing against me.

This is a valid point that wasn't the post that Ranger should have ignored.

In post 465, Ranger wrote:(448 is also a scum post, but I'll get into the why later. Got other things I need to do at this moment.)

no it really isn't. Maybe it was explained a little too much but yeah I don't see it at all and I think Panther usually posts pretty scummy. Read my newbie (or at least my iso review of Panther is my newbie)

In post 464, Ranger wrote:

Dunnstral wrote:Man that's a scummy vote.

Oh?
Do tell.[font=]
[/font]I'd almost think you were being sarcastic with your comment, because Florestan's vote on me was anything but.
Yet.
You actually seem

serious

, that this person voting a

player you have issues with

, when they had

made their own issues known

, is scummy.

<3

In post 463, Ranger wrote:

Dunnstral wrote:I'm waiting for her to explain her read on me because she acted like she had something special to say about that but is voting ploben so I want to see if it's not something lame

It's not.
For what it's worth though, you've fallen from second to third!
(Panther holds that slot now.)

Look at the people voting karnos though as opposed to Ploben in this

Funny, my takeaway is the opposite. The ploben wagon is ridiculously towndriven, and was before I joined.

The karnos wagon, its counterwagon, is filled with players who are at best nulltown. At

best

.

erm, this sort of assumes the conclusion. If they are both town, which is where I am at right now, then it means nothing. You just decided to join the wagon that has townier people. So what?

In post 466, Dunnstral wrote:

In post 464, Ranger wrote:

Dunnstral wrote:Man that's a scummy vote.

Oh?
Do tell.
I'd almost think you were being sarcastic with your comment, because Florestan's vote on me was anything but.
Yet.
You actually seem

serious

, that this person voting a

player you have issues with

, when they had

made their own issues known

, is scummy.

Thought I had, this is more directed at Florestan than you

Florestan was so ready to vote Karnos earlier but also gave that line about unvoting if it ever got to l-1

Then after Panther pushes on Ranger, Florestan is suddenly ready to vote Ranger with him

It's not like he spran gup his vote from nowhere, he did lead up to it, but that's why I think it was scummy.

I want to address this, because this point is stupid. Karnos has a lot of jumping around and weird weird posts, but there is a mentality in some posts that feels pretty towny. So I voted Ploben out of RVS but it was an RVS read. Eventually I reconsidered him, looked at the weird posts of Karnos, his counterwagon, and voted there for a bit. My line about L-1 is because one my issues with Karnos is that he acted like he was at deadline and was pushing people based on how easy they would be to lynch rather than how scummy he thought they were. So my comment was to reassure him as well as stop people like Ploben from pushing a dumb QL. This was while I was working on my iso review of him so I had seen some of the towny moments from him. I didn't immediately switch my vote to Ranger, my second strongest scumread before my review which was public info, because his iso still stank.

In post 483, Ranger wrote:Anyway, duppin and BTD6 are both nulltown on my list: I vaguely like what they've given (in spite of karnos's point against BTD6), but I don't see anything that's undeniably town.
Scott Brosius and Alpaca are both nullscum. For Scott, it's because he really hasn't done anything, except hop opportunistically onto the karnos wagon. I didn't like 216: his treatment of ploben, not explaining his commentary, but 257

does

mitigate this: he's going after someone there's virtually zero chance of lynching. That's not a move scum often make. But this goes back in 433: his reason for believing Chip Butty comes off as contrived. I don't like any of his reads, or how he slides back onto the karnos wagon. The main reason he's not a stronger scumread is because the other players I'm just scumreading

that

much stronger. Aside from his equal...

Alpaca. As noted, 110 was defending ploben, without taking a hard stance. It was just dropped there, without Alpaca actually

doing

anything.
For people saying I've done nothing but defend myself, they're utter hypocrites if they haven't noticed that Alpaca was doing basically the same thing, which you can see in 270. More defense in 273. 281 is worthless, and 304 is more defense.

The closest thing Alpaca has, even remotely, to content?

283. Asking me about ploben. Who is still my strongest scumread.

All-in-all: there's basically nothing town there. At all. Once more, the only reason he's that high is because of the others, who are lower.

Why is Duppin's point about Ploben not valid?

In post 493, Shadow_step wrote:

In post 341, Florestan wrote:Working on a wall but I will say that if Karnos gets put to L-1 I am unvoting because I don't trust this town.

This is scummy as hell. Saying in advance that you will unvote Karnos if anyone puts him on l-1.
If you think Karnos is town why do you care if he gets Lynched?
If it bothers you so much then why vote him which enables him to be put on l-1?

It all looks fake concerned townie to me.

Wut?

• Yes because its 3 days into the game
  
• I obviously didn't think he was town when I voted him, and I don't want town to get lynched? Assuming this is a typo its because he wasn't that strong of a read and QLs suck.
  
• Because he was my top scum when I voted him. I've been pretty transparent this game so these are all clearly in the thread at some point.

In post 509, ploben wrote:I thinking lurking scum is very dangerous in this particular game. This yields to little to no associations and makes it very tough for town to evaluate.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

Current thoughts on Scott? He's posted even less than Alpaca.

In post 511, Chip Butty wrote:

In post 509, ploben wrote:I thinking lurking scum is very dangerous in this particular game. This yields to little to no associations and makes it very tough for town to evaluate.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

Current thoughts on Scott? He's posted even less than Alpaca.

Scott's got a few points I agree with and has since interactions and associations. All Alpaca has done is defend me and not really provided any other content.

*and has some interactions and associations

not since

In post 512, ploben wrote: Scott's got a few points I agree with and has since interactions and associations.

Thanks, but wading through all that minute detail is giving me a headache, so could you be a little more vague? /sarcasm

In post 512, ploben wrote: All Alpaca has done is defend me and not really provided any other content.

Reeeeeeallllllllly? If you see being focussed on defending you to the exclusion of all else as scummy, I would be FASCINATED to read your current view on your bud duppen, in the light of my ISO of him...

brb, I'm off to get some popcorn...

[quote="In post 500
I think [ploben, duppen, Dunstrall] is a real possibility for the scum team, maybe without daytalk.[/quote]

It just seems too easy. If they are the scum, this has been the easiest town win ever. Which makes me think there must be something more to it.

My thoughts on alpaca and brosius:

They are both around the middle of my reads list. Could they be scum? Sure. Almost anyone could be scum at this point, day 1 and no masonry. But even if they are, neither one is really controlling the game or pushing anything. There is no strong need to lynch them. On the other hand, someone like Dunstral, if scum, needs to be lynched much sooner- he is pushing other players to vote, making his case strong and obvious, and basically determining where the game goes.

Should we think about these potential "lurking scum", sure. But it doesn't make sense to treat them as top scum when they obviously aren't that. They are either town players being shaded as scum, or they might be passive scum which aren't really as much of a danger to the game as an aggressive game-controlling scum.

In post 514, Chip Butty wrote:

In post 512, ploben wrote: Scott's got a few points I agree with and has since interactions and associations.

Thanks, but wading through all that minute detail is giving me a headache, so could you be a little more vague? /sarcasm

Alright, easy there Karnos 2.0

I'd have to go back and look at Duppen and your read on him.

In post 516, karnos wrote:My thoughts on alpaca and brosius:

They are both around the middle of my reads list. Could they be scum? Sure. Almost anyone could be scum at this point, day 1 and no masonry. But even if they are, neither one is really controlling the game or pushing anything. There is no strong need to lynch them. On the other hand, someone like Dunstral, if scum, needs to be lynched much sooner- he is pushing other players to vote, making his case strong and obvious, and basically determining where the game goes.

Should we think about these potential "lurking scum", sure. But it doesn't make sense to treat them as top scum when they obviously aren't that. They are either town players being shaded as scum, or they might be passive scum which aren't really as much of a danger to the game as an aggressive game-controlling scum.

I disagree. I've made points already on why interactions and associations is pro town especially down the road.

Also, lurking town make for great night kill targets, which doesn't leave town much to read the next day. So those low activity players need to start contributing.

@karnos: I know what you mean, and I have some further ideas but I don't want to reveal them just yet. At any rate, even if it is these three, the game isn't won until they're lynched, and that's a way off yet.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that making scum teams this early is irresponsible and can lead to misreads. Until there is a flip or investigations it's useless to speculate on scum teams.

In post 500, Chip Butty wrote:ploben, duppen, Dunstrall

It's actually really interesting what comes up when you read from the thread start with this scumteam in mind.

In post 54, Dunnstral wrote:
There is no innocent child it would've been revealed at day start

Interesting that Dunnstral knows this, like he specifically checked prior to the game start.

In post 64, Shadow_step wrote:Can't innocent child choose when they want to be revealed as conf town? Like the day- 1, 2 or 3 etc. Or does it happen on day 1 by default ?

Shadow_step understood the role to work the same way I did.

In post 78, Dunnstral wrote:
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though. What do you think of this?

VOTE: Shadow_Step

Someone didn't like that doubt was being cast on the narrative.

In post 103, duppin wrote:I assumed the IC would be revealed at the start of the day (because of the setup wiki), but I can see it wasn't mentioned in the OP so I can understand it might've caused confusion.

Interesting duppin also carefully checked the role in this setup also, almost like he was also in on a pre-game plan.

In post 109, karnos wrote: It works differently in different games. According to the wiki, this form of IC is the less common form of of the role. I don't think it's far fetched to consider that you might have actually thought it worked in the more common way.

And here is the kicker:

In post 122, Dunnstral wrote:Alright Chip here's a tinfoil theory: If ploben were mafia, naturally they would have looked at the modifications list, correct?

On that list it says innocent child is revealed day 1...

So even if ploben is mafia, it's not for any reason you're giving right now

For the record right now I'm town reading both you and ploben

Dunnstral isn't offering a theory, he is explaining what the scum actually did in night 0 chat. (Or potentially daytalk if they bought it).

The big problem with the theory: ploben can't actually "trap" a scum with his IC claim if the scum did look at the setup roles closely. Basically, the argument can be flipped around: if I am actually scum, wouldn't I have looked at the setup roles?

Another odd thing I notice re-reading the early pages, is the constant support and buddying between Dunnstral, ploben, and duppin generally goes unacknowledged, but when someone outside of the scum circle vouches for one of them, they turn on that player as if that player is a scum seeking town cred, such as alpaca or florestan.

I think I am seeing why the scum are willing to buddy up so much too, maybe they foolishly thought town would assume the mafia traitor wouldn't be recruited, so we wouldn't be hunting for a group of 3. Dumb? Yes. But I don't see a lot of smart scum play this game, sometimes scum plays poorly.

Basically, a dumb scum plan makes more sense to me than the idea that they are town. How could town buddy so blatantly in a game with no masons? Why would town players be pushing for a quick-lynch so much?

Karnos trust me you didn't just nail the scum team based off of that.

In post 452, Ranger wrote:

Persivul wrote:PantherPunt replaces Bulletproof Ben

Now there's a name I never thought I'd see in a game of mine ever again.

You sabotaged the town. I actually forgot you were one of the self voters before replacing into this game. Just went back and refreshed myself.

In post 454, Ranger wrote:

PantherPunt wrote:but I have a hard time believing Ranger actually believed that, and see more likelihood that it's a nefarious attempt to mislead

So your theory is, I as scum, tried to clear my scumbuddy, off of something that the mod would be obligated to tell the town was wrong?

Yeah, no.

Either you tried to clear a buddy or you made a really idiotic argument as town. I guess you're declaring for the latter.

In post 455, Ranger wrote:

PantherPunt wrote:ranger has given no content. she will argue that her read lists are content. I will argue that that's bullshit because she has failed to show her thought process behind any of those reads

You of ALL people know this.
As in.
Of every player in the game.
No player knows this better than PantherPunt thanks to his Ranger experience.
That a lack of explanation is not an absence of ability to show explanation.
It is a willing choice, to put off explaining until a time of my choosing.

Why do I say he of all people knows this?
Because he was the victim of my vengekill in Longnight.
I did basically zero explaining of my reads while alive.
I even self-voted.
After I was hammered, I gave some, but not much.
Most of my commentary was in the vengeful/twilight/dead thread of that game, where I went into

extensive

length in my analysis, and why I believed what I did.

This is no different, and if he were town, he would

know

it was no different.

"If he were town, he would know it was no different."
Oh so any time you give naked reads and don't say shit else, you're town? You'd never do that as mafia? Players don't imitate their town game as mafia and thus I should automatically KNOW you're town because you're making naked read lists which I saw you do one time as town? Get the fuck out of here with that.

Let's talk about that game real quick, huh? I didn't read the dead chat bc why would I...but if you say you went all heavy with analysis in there, I say: WHOOP DEE FUCKING DOOO. You were dead. You self-voted as town "because you knew you could vengekill scum." Oh wait...you vengekilled town and lost the game...that's right.

And about doing "zero explaining while alive." What good is that? You have to have God reads and be right for that to be productive (and your reads were significantly worse than RANDOM). Instead of discussing your reads with the REST OF THE TOWN who...ya know...can discuss back and explain which of your thoughts they disagree with, and you might...ya know...reevaluate those thoughts and better inform your reads on those players, you kept it all to yourself. That's so incredibly anti-town and you not ever owning up to it and saying you played that game all wrong is dumbfounding. I don't know why people put you on a pedestal you must have had a good game or two at some point.

In post 320, Ranger wrote:{This is my username, Postie,

RadiantCowbells

}
{

TheTrollie

}
{

Killthestory

}
{

Rhaegar

}
{

PantherPunt

,

Not_Mafia

}

Good thing you didn't explain your reads bc you're God tier and were taking it upon yourself to win the game single-handedly. [/rant]