Mafiascum.net

In post 490, Wisdom wrote:Youre mistaking wallposting for towniness
Theres no real town motivation in anythinf hes done

i'm not (and i don't really think moment's posts are 'walls')

and i don't really get the point about town motivation. i haven't liked everything moment's written but the lines of questioning seem fine to me, the reasoning for reads seems fine to me and i can follow the thought processes pretty easily and see how the reads are evolving

In post 491, Wisdom wrote:Read the first 5 pages of the game I linked

i have

there are similarities. there are differences. i can't find a scum game for reference (including on MU) so i don't know how much i should care about either

meta seems pretty pointless to me without a scum game for reference

In post 478, Moment wrote:

In post 474, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:How do you figure that? And why are so quick to discount anyone who is familiar with my meta? Do you really think that they are all wearing blinders and you are the only one who sees the light? Or are you just digging in your heels brcause you have more to lose because you’re the one who initially pushed this wagon and put so much effort into it?

This post doesn’t read villagery to me at all. It sounds like you want to file me away as a possible mislynch for later. While Brian was asking lots of questions and honestly trying to sort me, this post strikes me as agenday. You aren’t even considering anyone’s arguments against this. I’m getting really bad vibes from this post. It almost reads to me as if you have some investment in me being scum rather than caring about the truth. Muffin at least tried to push me but you can’t even be bothered with that.

1) How do I figure what?

2) Please point out to me where you see me discounting people familiar with your meta. I'm hesitant to trust meta reads myself in the first place, but even then I distinctly recall myself seeing the people who said that becoming obviously town was in your meta and taking that into account; doesn't seem like "discounting" at all. In fact, it seems exactly the opposite of discounting people familiar with your meta.

2.5) I really didn't put much effort at all into your wagon; it was just the one post.

3) "It sounds like you want to file me away as a possible mislynch for later" - Or, perhaps the truth is that I still don't townread you. Is there something specific you see that would imply me trying to mislynch you later as opposed to the truth of me just not townreading you?

4) What exactly do you mean when you say "you aren't even considering anyone's arguments against this"? If you mean that I'm not considering anyone's arguments for you being town, first I would like you to quote for me the posts where people argue

why

you are town; as far as I can recall, the only things people have said with regards to you being town is declaring you obvious town from your posting. There isn't much to consider or respond to there, now, is there?

5) "Muffin at least tried to push me but you can't even be bothered with that" - Erm, what's your point here? Is this meant to be a reason for me being scum? If so, I don't follow.

If I have misinterpreted your post, I’m sorry but the second part of your post read to me, like you were determined to hold on to a bad read and was planning to push me no matter what and that you had no interest or concern with taking in anyone’s feedback who had any familiarity with my meta. People who are obvtowning me based off of meta have damn good reasons for doing so because I usually don’t have good reads - especially scumreads on d1 but I am rarely comfortable early game because my head isn’t in the game. Human got it right when they said I have a “tenuous grasp” on the current gamestate. In Necro, I nearly got hammered in the span of under 2 hours only to be read as obvtown by d2. That isn’t an anomaly either. My reads on d1 are as Wisdom said, “surfacey” and unfortunately they didn’t improve much in that game until Idue to a specific mechanic, I wzs correctly able to deduce scum WIFOM. I’m not content with repeating that because I don’t play these games to coast. I want to solve the game like I have - at least in part - in at least 75% of the games I’ve played. I have a solid rep on MU for being “scarily accurate”. (a direct quote from an MU member) in at least correctly nailing one scum.

I know I shouldn’t beat myself up over this but I can’t help but be frustrated that I’m not doing better at figuring out this game. I don’t want to be in this game if I continue to suck but I think it’s far too early to give up hope yet. Wisdom’s post really affected my confidence but I hope to prove him wrong about my ability to solve this game. We’ll see.

(note: i'd read that game before it was even mentioned here)

(i thought nancy might be scum before she'd even posted here. i've been paying pretty close attention to her site activity - i figured she might be the type of scum who lurks a lot and i wanted to find a reference for it. couldn't, but figured i'd read some town games to see how she usually posts anyway)

In post 481, Moment wrote:

In post 475, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I don’t like hebi’s vote on Mastina but could his vote possibly be a case of TWTBAW? IOW, was his vote so over the top scummy, it probably came from town type of thing. I certainly open to arguments on her but I’m getting mega scum vibes from moment at the moment (pun intended XD). I don’t care if he keeps his vote on me, it’s the whole scummy way he backtracked. He’ll look elsewhere for now but he’s coming after me later. I can’t see how that’s a town mindset at all.

(Seems like I missed this)

In the first place I haven't backtracked anything. My thoughts remain unchanged; what changed was my focus. I'm not particularly interested in bashing my skull against a wall and dragging the rest of our short time left in this day out in an extended discussion over how obviously town you are or aren't. I think that people are snap townreading your response to being pushed and, given time where you're not being pushed, either I will be proven wrong myself or those people who were townreading you will realize that it

was

simply your reaction to being pushed that made you look town.

I'm a little confused at how choosing to focus on one scum suspect and come back to another one later is somehow inconceivable as a town mindset to you. I can't imagine why.

It was the way it was phrased that pinged me about that post. Your subsequent posts sound a lot more reasonable but it still sounds like you can’t see beyond your tunnel vision of me. You still haven’t explained why I have gotten scummier and morphed into obvscum, which is pretty much what you were implying. You didn’t say, I’ll keep my scumread on her for now but continue to keep an open mind. It is not scummy to not obvtown read me, nor is it scummy to not remove me from your POE. What is scummy, is what reads to me as your almost vow to come after me later. It was the seeming lack of openness to any new information that might possibly impact your read on me that pinged me. That’s very different then you not taking me out of your POE and not reading me as onvtown. That’s why I read it as agenday.

In post 502, zMuffinMan wrote:(note: i'd read that game before it was even mentioned here)

(i thought nancy might be scum before she'd even posted here. i've been paying pretty close attention to her site activity - i figured she might be the type of scum who lurks a lot and i wanted to find a reference for it. couldn't, but figured i'd read some town games to see how she usually posts anyway)

This doesn’t even make any sense because if you did this, then you would know I’ve never even randed scum, so why would you be prepared to scumread before I’d even posted? If anything, the exact opposite should be the case.

In post 503, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:It was the way it was phrased that pinged me about that post. Your subsequent posts sound a lot more reasonable but it still sounds like you can’t see beyond your tunnel vision of me. You still haven’t explained why I have gotten scummier and morphed into obvscum, which is pretty much what you were implying.

No, I wasn't implying that.

You didn’t say, I’ll keep my scumread on her for now but continue to keep an open mind.

Yes, I did. Read 468 again.

It is not scummy to not obvtown read me, nor is it scummy to not remove me from your POE. What is scummy, is what reads to me as your almost vow to come after me later. It was the seeming lack of openness to any new information that might possibly impact your read on me that pinged me. That’s very different then you not taking me out of your POE and not reading me as onvtown. That’s why I read it as agenday.

What lack of openness to new information? I have no idea what you're referring to; please quote what gave you this idea.

In post 325, Moment wrote:
------

In post 300, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:So far, I’m really liking Brian and android. Lots of genuine asking of questions, interactions. I think Mastina due to IC claim. Human seems to be trying hard to figure out this game. Muffin probably town as well. I dislike Hebi Mastina vote because you shouldn’t risk voting possible IC but don’t know if it’s AI or not, it’s just not a good vote.

VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

I'm going to talk a little bit about why I consider this a scumpost.

-I mean no offense by this statement, but I think these sorts of "surface level" reasons to townread others come a lot more from scum than from town. Town, uninformed of anyone else's alignment, are naturally distrustful; doubtful. Taking such reasons as "lots of asking questions" and "trying hard to figure out this game" as reasons to townread others is more likely to come from scum, who both:
1) Know everyone's alignment and thus do not require strong reasons to townread people
2) Need to pretend to be sorting people to keep up appearances.

Nancy mentioning Mastina and the IC claim along with the rest of her townreads goes entirely along with my second point there; it's simply mentioning something for the sake of mentioning something and appearing to be solving the game.

From a quick scan of the posts following this it seems others agree with me here, so I think I can leave it at this. I urge others to join me here.

you start with a pretty vague premise (these are general actions that can go either way) but you skew it toward her being scum
her post is closer to nai than scum

these arent like points lmao

who was in touhou

moment is like the evil version of Text Generator lmao im dying

nah nancy's first post was pretty indicative of scum tbh

though the reason moment mentioned is a lesser reason

the bigger concern was what nancy said about hebi

In post 508, zMuffinMan wrote:nah nancy's first post was pretty indicative of scum tbh

though the reason moment mentioned is a lesser reason

the bigger concern was what nancy said about hebi

Which part? I don’t have a strong read on her one way or another, like I don’t on the majority of the game, which really shouldn’t be all that surprising on freaking d1.

In post 508, zMuffinMan wrote:nah nancy's first post was pretty indicative of scum tbh

though the reason moment mentioned is a lesser reason

the bigger concern was what nancy said about hebi

I’ll be looking forward to you explaining this post game.

i dont really think there's much to explain...

if anyone really has to ask what i meant, just ask yourself what the point of nancy's hebi mention was (note: it wasnt a read) or what you think she was trying to achieve with it

the "post-game" comment you just made is pretty awkward. i get youre trying to imply that im wrong but that kind of relies on me being town (you may be in for a surprise here) and it seems like an unnecessary comment to make except as an attempt at manipulation

In post 466, Moment wrote: Is it truly so unbelievable to you that I would find your reaction to MuffinMan's joke and the rest of your posting non-genuine?

yes literally, after playing for 3+ years, reacting to a joke is dummy NAI that it becomes a stupid thing to push and I take issue with stupid pushes.

Or rather, you seem to implying that there's nothing possibly AI that I could have seen in your earlier posting in the thread, which I find hard to believe that

you

actually believe.

you'd be putting words in my mouth if you think I said there wasn't anything AI, I only took issue with the fact that you used a post relating to a joke(sorry muffin) to make a point. I did in fact mention how I had two posts relating to muffin AFTER the joke post which could be considered AI and wanted to know what you thought was AI.

So it's not really fair for you to take issue with me saying there's nothing AI when I admit there is AI content, just to a reasonable extent.

I believe I've already mentioned this before regarding your posting but in case I haven't, it looked like "posting for the sake of posting" and trying to have some presence in the thread while lacking any seeming effort to sort. A good example would be 175; on the surface it kind of

looks

like it's an effort at sorting but I don't think the question is particularly pointed or relevant, just a relatively unimportant question of clarification.

Well considering I've been V/LA till Friday morning because I've volunteered for a church camp, with a worship service starting @ 9am EST, that series of posts were literally me sitting in my room waiting for the students to get ready so we can leave. So while being V/LA, which is important here because it blood means LiMiTeD aCcEsS, I thought hey might as well read up through the game a bit so I dont fall too far behind when I get back and that was the best I could manage.

The fact of the matter is that I actually wanted to participate in this game for a bit, albeit however short that period was. So given that all that was in the morning while away leading a camp, I'd be surprised if you still take issue with the fact that I at least tried to participate.

Even more, although admittedly this is more of a minor point, I take the fact that in your catch-up from your last post in the thread (180) my post was the first thing you felt the need to respond to as a minor scumtell.

I'm not gonna rag on you about this, because you simply don't know.

However you should know from now on that I'm a huge beetlejuicer.

I skim read games and if I see my name, i read the post in depth.

It's just in my nature as I have an ego.

As for the ego, I am never going to not respond to a vote on me either because I used to be scum read a lot in my early days of mafia, and I learned when to tell if scumreads are bullshit on me before. Even used bullshit reads on myself to go on a 5/5 scum caught streak before.

The other thing is that I tend to have a hard time focusing on other slots when I have someone voting me because my ego tells me you have no right to scum read me and gets pissy

In post 511, zMuffinMan wrote:i dont really think there's much to explain...

if anyone really has to ask what i meant, just ask yourself what the point of nancy's hebi mention was (note: it wasnt a read) or what you think she was trying to achieve with it

the "post-game" comment you just made is pretty awkward. i get youre trying to imply that im wrong but that kind of relies on me being town (you may be in for a surprise here) and it seems like an unnecessary comment to make except as an attempt at manipulation

I was saying it was a bad vote for obvious reasons and that I wasn’t sure if it was AI or not but it’s clear you’re hellbent into reading something into it that’s not there. As for my post game comment, it’s just me speculating on how you will explain that post after the game. Call it whatever you wish, I will still looking forward to it in any case.

In post 481, Moment wrote:I think that people are snap townreading your response to being pushed and, given time where you're not being pushed, either I will be proven wrong myself or those people who were townreading you will realize that it was simply your reaction to being pushed that made you look town.

????
Afaik ppl make more AI posting when being pushed or in danger of being lynched, so it makes sense that her reactions would be townread.

In post 500, zMuffinMan wrote:meta seems pretty pointless to me without a scum game for reference

I actually think this is very true.

But the one bringing up the meta argument is Wisdom, I townread her without the use of meta because her reaction to being pushed indicated town mindset.

Hey Maria can you make a Wisdom lynch happen?

Katsuki how about you actually play
You can do it when you want to

i p much agree with muffinman on moment
with the caves that I think the slot will get significantly easier to sort as the game goes on, too, based on the way he's interacting with the thread

I strongly agree with wisdom on katsuki as well

In post 465, Wisdom wrote:anyway ill be honest with you
in necromancer i mostly ignored you after i figured youre town because youre moonlogicking and surfacey and i cant really follow your arguments
most likely thats what will happen here too

same tbh

where did u go

In post 517, Wisdom wrote:Katsuki how about you actually play
You can do it when you want to

There is no way town Wisdom makes this statement after just having finished playing that anime upick with me where I lurked then ultimately destroyed scum to close out the game.

thats precisely why i said it
If you only played like this from early on and didnt give me a headache about your alignment itd be better

In post 519, Human Sequencer wrote:

In post 465, Wisdom wrote:anyway ill be honest with you
in necromancer i mostly ignored you after i figured youre town because youre moonlogicking and surfacey and i cant really follow your arguments
most likely thats what will happen here too

same tbh

grapes

where did u go

You were in Necro. Who are you?

no i wasn't

I'm human sequencer