In post 445, Greeting wrote:Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.
um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?
Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.
No, I mean it's just not conclusive or directed, as it's not really stating anything to push the game forward (for even yourself)
everything done by players is alignment indicative, maybe not alone but when seen as a pattern of behavior they can only come from a town mindset or scum mindset and town is not here to be certain, town is here to find which mindset is more probable. so calling things irrelevant and just not forming any opinions about them and then saying no opinion can be found based on them (specially in this case where that is all eye did in game so far so that is by itself a pattern of behavior) is either lazy work or distancing
I disagree, but I guess opinions may differ.
If I say something is NAI, I'm simply shelving sorting the slot until he/she/they start posting AI content. In most cases I find something else from someone else that
is
AI. I don't know about you, but I find it impossible to sort all slots in the game on Day 1, and sometimes up until the end of game (though I've survived until endgame only once on MafiaScum).
well I guess we're getting semantical here. is ok if you don't want to make a read on eye based on his posts so far.
Greeting wrote:
In post 493, Frozen Angel wrote:I just want to mention that Eye is not a lurker and I don't like how the term is being used repeatedly to call the slot unreadable
They actually fabricated a bunch of reads when questioned
and had some reactions in-game.
If you mean lurker as not a hyperactive poster, yeah but that's just a personality trait unless it can be evaluated with meta in another way.
Oh? Do go on.
I explained it before
In post 434, Frozen Angel wrote:Now about my own read so far is that it was weird and so sudden that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.
I find the use of that theory in that specific moment when they got questioned to participate and their lack of mentioning all other replaced slots in-game with that theory fabricated.
it can be a fabrication as a lazy town who is like yeah I just say something cause I'm asked and see where that gets me (he even predicted he'll get heat for it)
or from a mafia who really can't engage as the conversation is town-dominated.
I actually think that I lean on the first right now but I have my doubts.
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:55 am
by wavemode
In post 491, Scorpious wrote:You’re proclaiming that limming the lurker is more often successful than not.
well, no. I said lynching eyes, in this game, is more likely to be successful than not. not lurkers in general
and I specifically said that it's because of eyes's actual play, not their level of activity
all I was saying regarding activity was that the fact that they are less active should not mean they're immune from suspicion
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:56 am
by Dwlee99
In post 217, Eyes without a face wrote:Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.
In post 408, Eyes without a face wrote:Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).
Anyway welcome FA.
Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?
In post 497, HockeyFan wrote:So, can you expand on this thought of you have of "there are many things getting pursued at the same time, so most of it must be coming from town". Why cant mafia start pushing their own reads(if their partner is under fire a bit)
It was just a feeling that most people are passing the tests of consistencies I do when I iso read them. pushing several directions and staying consistent is vibing me that the general debate is lead by attitude of game solving.
it's more like my sixth sense telling me that. I'm not basing any of my reads on that sense actually as I also said in same post I don't have any solid townreads and that worries me while I started to feel way better about several slots I questioned during the day so far and have general good feeling and was not alarmed by several other slots.
In post 217, Eyes without a face wrote:Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.
In post 408, Eyes without a face wrote:Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).
Anyway welcome FA.
Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?
But isn't this a huge cognitive dissonance that indicates eyes is scum?
why would a cognitive dissonance mean the slot is scum and not just someone not paying attention?
why would a scum be like that compared to the possibility of a lazy town being like that?
I 100% am onboard that the reads are all fabricated however
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:02 pm
by wavemode
In post 500, HockeyFan wrote:wave, can u explain the progression between 349 and 485(what happend to the nero sus). Cuz u didnt mention them much between these two logs
well, nothing happened to the nero sus. I would say he's still near the bottom for me
but I guess what you're getting at is, if he's near the bottom for me, that must mean I want to lynch him today? to which I would say, no that's not really the case. I'm more confident in my eyes and scorpious scumreads
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:02 pm
by Dwlee99
There's a difference between cognitive dissonance and not paying attention/changing your mind etc.
And if you think all the reads are fabricated then ???
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:06 pm
by Frozen Angel
In post 510, Dwlee99 wrote:There's a difference between cognitive dissonance and not paying attention/changing your mind etc.
And if you think all the reads are fabricated then ???
The slot is not doing work and the read they make is fabricated.
which is why he deserved a spot here in my read:
so for me, my vote currently kinda has to go on either Andate which is fluff posting and fabricating stuff but has yet to catch up again they say, eyes which is actually a good vote even without much content posted cause that moves of them for going after that theory just felt so fake, and it gives a good insight about the people who gave reads around the slot without having any reasons and the wagon that got constructed on him.
I just have enough experience to not instantly call the slot scum even for fabricating reads and have this doubt that with their self-awareness that doing it will bring them heat/they might just be the lazy town not doing anything and wanting to run away from questions - even though I was the first person who called this and repeatedly emphasized on it when people tried to move on from actually investigating the slot
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:08 pm
by Frozen Angel
In post 434, Frozen Angel wrote:It's not your conclusion that was unsettling with me even though I don't find him using that inherently scum motivated.
So he said because of this theory, I think to replace ins are more likely scum: This is pretty much a low hanging fruit slot with 0 contexts before this, saying something completely pointless again
2 people vote for him and I express my concern, then you first
give the theory some legitimacy
and then call him bad for using it. Now again I don't find that contradictory I just don't like how it was constructed to that point because I know you.
Now about my own read so far is that it was
weird and so sudden
that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.
I explained my stance on the slot here first if you missed it
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:11 pm
by Frozen Angel
In post 510, Dwlee99 wrote:There's a difference between cognitive dissonance and not paying attention/changing your mind etc.
also in no context, I didn't mean that I believe they changed their mind
I really am sure the read is fabricated. a fabricating a read has a purpose/logical process.
I just don't consider it inherently scum motivated in this context.
In post 490, Greeting wrote:Scorpious has just pointed out to me, in 469, what I believe was his perceived shallowness of my read on Eyes with out a face. I openly admitted to not having focused on them much. If they're both scum, why would he do that to his partner?
I don't townread people because I'm worried they might be partners with someone else I scumread. that's just not logically sound
what if scorpious just did that to make himself look good after eyes flips? he's been playing mafia for years, he's not a noob
or what if they are both scum but not aligned with each other? we don't know the setup
or, hey, let's assume you're right and one of them is town. how could I possibly know which one it is? how could I use that to townread one of them? I would have to make a lot of baseless assumptions to come to such a conclusion
Firstly, I never said that one of them is town nor that one of them is scum nor that both are town or scum. I asked you that question, however.
Secondly, this is a Mini Normal game. Sure, we have limited information about the game's setup, but I believe that two scum teams are out of the question.
While townies may often do something without having a clear plan in mind, it is not unreasonable to expect scums to have a certain plan to follow, as their objectives to win the game are obviously different. Guessing what that plan is can be a strategy for town to figure out whom the team is. I have a preference to rely on voting patterns in that regard, but we're in Day 1 and no one is dead yet. Still, it is generally in the interest of the scumteam not to give themselves a starting disadvantage by bussing one of them at the very start of the game. At least, I have
never
seen any scumteam to even attempt that, and even if they sometimes did vote to eliminate one another, it was just a distancing strategy.
Sorry, but I am just not buying this explanation. You say that
Scorpious
is not a noob, but you're no noob either and this just seems like you've picked two players lined up for elimination and stuck with them while openly refusing to reflect further on that at all. And that is more likely to come from scum and town. My vote on you stands.
In post 434, Frozen Angel wrote:Now about my own read so far is that it was weird and so sudden that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.
I find the use of that theory in that specific moment when they got questioned to participate and their lack of mentioning all other replaced slots in-game with that theory fabricated.
it can be a fabrication as a lazy town who is like yeah I just say something cause I'm asked and see where that gets me (he even predicted he'll get heat for it)
or from a mafia who really can't engage as the conversation is town-dominated.
I actually think that I lean on the first right now but I have my doubts.
Just because something sounds not quite right or is simply incorrect doesn't necessarily mean it's fake, as in the person making the post doesn't believe in it. And that's why I'm leaning towards this being NAI.
When it comes to that slot, what interested me more than 413 was 217 for reasons described in by me in 483. But I am not fully convinced that this player is the best choice to eliminate today. Right now I'm feeling more strongly about
wavemode
.
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:35 pm
by wavemode
In post 514, Greeting wrote:Guessing what that plan is can be a strategy for town to figure out whom the team is
yeah and that strategy just doesn't usually work. without flips there's no way to know what one person's interactions with another person actually mean. and the more you try to assume you know what they mean, the more likely you end up with completely shitty reads altogether
you say you've never seen scum express suspicion of each other day 1 but I have, I've seen it a lot. in fact I've done it. in fact I've seen scum HARD bus, and successfully lynch, each other day 1. I've probably seen it all at this point
two people who are both acting scummy, can both be scum, regardless of what they are saying about each other. it is completely illogical to assume otherwise
In post 514, Greeting wrote:Sorry, but I am just not buying this explanation. You say that Scorpious is not a noob, but you're no noob either and this just seems like you've picked two players lined up for elimination and stuck with them while openly refusing to reflect further on that at all. And that is more likely to come from scum and town. My vote on you stands.
this paragraph is bizarre. I was the first person to express suspicion of eyes and I was the first person to express suspicion of scorpious. neither of them was "up for elimination". and "openly refusing to reflect further" is... ???? because I have a different scum reading strategy than you, that means I'm not reflecting?
In post 217, Eyes without a face wrote:Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.
In post 408, Eyes without a face wrote:Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).
Anyway welcome FA.
Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?
Wait, it just struck me. You are right, that is a glaring sign of inconsistence that I missed.
I will wait for the vote count before I switch.
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 12:43 pm
by HockeyFan
@Dwlee, in 505, u said eyes+FA could be partnered(presumably cuz of 503?), but why are u big on that being a partnery psot, when the same logic can be applied to u. Eyes TR'D you even after u being a replacement
In post 408, Eyes without a face wrote:Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).
Anyway welcome FA.
Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?
Do you always go after replacements in your games?
I don't have too many games to acknowledge or deny this.