Mafiascum.net

In post 4995, MathBlade wrote:However saying you know more than the entire town is incredibly risky to say the least.

I agree it's risky but I think part of the skill in this game is knowing when to take risks.

If it hadn't worked out, I'd freely admit I made the wrong call. But it wouldn't be because of a rule about how to use bodyguards, it'd be because I misjudged the gamestate in this specific game.

I disagree with the idea that players should blindly follow rules about how to use roles. Every game is different and there's lots of valid approaches to the game.

In post 4998, RadiantCowbells wrote:Math that's not a site rule and if she had died for you town would have lost this I am almost certain.

Math? Don’t you mean CS? Okay, tethinking it, it’s a damn good thing she didn’t protect CS but my argument about her reactions - as justified as they may have been - neverthrless came off really wolfy - especially the policy lynch thing. The way way she expressed it made it as the worst said, “survivalist”. @Shoshin , I swear I’m not trying to come doxn on you here. What I’m saying is you feeling justified in your reactions doesn’t necessarily translate to how that reaction gets read because, we didn’t know that you were town saying that, only you did but yes, you are hands down the true scumhunting god of this game and should we ever play together, I will put a lot more stock in your brilliant reads.

In post 4998, RadiantCowbells wrote:Math that's not a site rule and if she had died for you town would have lost this I am almost certain.

The game would have gone far differently had Shoshin died N3.

1. The operational townblock we had set up would've been fully in place and the worst would have almost certainly been added to it via the neighborhood. That by itself is a locktown bloc of CommanderShepard/RealityCheck/NancyDrew39/theworst, leaving only Whemestar, Scioness Sajj, Chickadee, Taly, and randommidget as unknowns. Just that by itself means town guarantees a win just by having one more town locked, which is very doable with Whemestar in a neighborhood with mastina and myself.

2. Shoshin was a slot that was under fire from multiple town. Just having that suspicion and paranoia cleared up would force us to reevaluate our reads

3. With our N3 voyeur shot, we would normally be able to confirm HOW Shoshin died, which prevents possible shenanigans regarding that later on. (I say should because... a. I chose the less elegant target for that purpose, b. Whemestar forgot to submit the action, and c. I didn't push Whemestar to remember to submit the action.)

This is a spot for town to be in and is remarkably close to a solved game state where town can't lose. Now, this is what ended up happening:

1. Commander Shepard died. This destroyed the townblock because Shoshin was the weak link inside it, Nancy and I were otherwise not synced, and the worst could not be added to it. We were effectively back at square one.

2. Shoshin was already under general suspicion and paranoia that was only stopped because of the mechanical 'clear' that CShep had her in. With the plan of having her protect the slot that died having failed, that shield evaporated.

3. The reasoning was very very sketchy, the type of reasoning that scum locked into an unfavoring claim would do. This looked far far far worse later on when she later asked to be spared so she can prove her role. Overall, dying helped derail the town's overall read correction that was underway going into night three. This is a huge reason I went fully off the rails this game, because I could not see a gamestate where Shoshin was not scum anymore.

So yes, your reads were very good overall and my tunnel day two wasn't, but I was starting to correct myself.

The main reason I'm mad in the first place is because you entered the postgame loudly shouting about how your reads were amazing and town would have won if you were sheeped,

I made a lot of mistakes (and... well, mastina, despite only being able to devote a fraction of the effort I did into the game, had me way beat in reads by the end), but I strongly believe that there is a lot more complexity to the decision to bodyguard CShep than you're giving it credit for. I don't think it would've taken town a huge drawn out battle to win, the game might have been solved on day four.

(I didn't even go into having more voyeur shots available... I was so proud of that gambit too)

btw just for clarity's sake, I've been in that position before. It sucks. All you can really do is take what you can get and hope that you leave the town in a good enough spot to win without you.

I will avoid copy and pasting the fifty billion posts where you said randomidget was a major townread.

In post 5004, Ankamius wrote:btw just for clarity's sake, I've been in that position before. It sucks. All you can really do is take what you can get and hope that you leave the town in a good enough spot to win without you.

Or you just don't die for someone whose reads are bad.

Frankly shoshin was obviously town from early on in the same vein as Nancy Drew. If you guys could Lynch scioness who was the vig for a reason as bad as you did why should shoshin have trusted you.

I think it's better if I bow out of this conversation now

Like

You have a nightkill voyeured as being protected and you are still calling them scum with no known way for scum to have predicted the voyeur

That's not on shoshin..

In post 3615, Reality Check wrote:

In post 3613, Shoshin wrote:

In post 3610, Reality Check wrote:This game is solved.

I'm town
Wisdom is obvtown
Random is obvtown
I strongly believe the townread on the worst is sheepable.

That leaves three slots. Either there is two scum left and it doesn't matter which order, or there is three and it still doesn't matter.

What the fuck?

Wisdom is obvtown?
Random is obvtown?

Are you serious?

I am dead serious.

Both slots are obvtown.

I conclude with this final post

In post 5007, RadiantCowbells wrote:Frankly shoshin was obviously town from early on in the same vein as Nancy Drew. If you guys could Lynch scioness who was the vig for a reason as bad as you did why should shoshin have trusted you.

She shouldn’t have after that. I was townreading her D1, 2, 3 but - irrespective of how judtified she felt, I didn’t like her reactions to both Angel and CS. I may be wrong in retrospect but being aware of how you’re getting read isn’t unimportant, it’s critical, so RC you can criticize us all you want for that but you can’t ignore that fact.

Anyone who reads random and my PT, will see that I was chomping at the bit to lynch Reality before she claimed. I found much of her play in this game to be uberwolfy and I completely disagree that Reality was a part of a strong town block until she claimed. I would just as strongly disagree with her that the worst wasn’t. Commander Shephard clearly thought thid, otherwise he never would have neighbourized him N3.

I only had any doubts on the worst after a few of his comments to Shoshin about rather losing to Wisdom than her. Shoshin was my #1 townread after gladiate and before Wisdom flip. So, I think Reality should be the last player in this game, to school Shoshin on how to not look wolfy. If Angel had not been so over the top wolfy on D3, I might have mislynched Reality for both aggressively trying to delay Creature lynch and pushing Shoshin.

In post 5011, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:

In post 5007, RadiantCowbells wrote:Frankly shoshin was obviously town from early on in the same vein as Nancy Drew. If you guys could Lynch scioness who was the vig for a reason as bad as you did why should shoshin have trusted you.

She shouldn’t have after that. I was townreading her D1, 2, 3 but - irrespective of how judtified she felt, I didn’t like her reactions to both Angel and CS. I may be wrong in retrospect but being aware of how you’re getting read isn’t unimportant, it’s critical, so RC you can criticize us all you want for that but you can’t ignore that fact.

Anyone who reads random and my PT, will see that I was chomping at the bit to lynch Reality before she claimed. I found much of her play in this game to be uberwolfy and I completely disagree that Reality was a part of a strong town block until she claimed. I would just as strongly disagree with her that the worst wasn’t. Commander Shephard clearly thought thid, otherwise he never would have neighbourized him N3.

I only had any doubts on the worst after a few of his comments to Shoshin about rather losing to Wisdom than her. Shoshin was my #1 townread after gladiate and before Wisdom flip. So, I think Reality should be the last player in this game, to school Shoshin on how to not look wolfy. If Angel had not been so over the top wolfy on D3, I might have mislynched Reality for both aggressively trying to delay Creature lynch and pushing Shoshin.

P.edit derail not delay and on D2.

I don't know what to tell you, Nancy. I think there's some fundamental personality block or something because I still don't really understand what wasn't clear about my thoughts regarding the day two lynch.

But that also probably needs a lot of context into why I don't think scum lynches are necessarily good for town, etc.

so.

I genuinely was believing that town was in a dangerous state where scum just needed to kill the most competent town in order to win the game, so having as much raw information and probable scum lynches available was something I wanted to prioritize. Having a slot that was basically confirmed scum to most people die was a play that runs into the scum-advantage half of that theory.

(ftr, a big reason I was believing that in the first place was because of how insanely disorganized the town became when Sajj/worst/myself were in the underground)

I am just glad I hit the worst.

I think even with my wrong read on Shoshin that was the right play.

And if Shoshin died I would have tunneled Random. I was leaning there somewhat

I probably would've ended up following tbh

Honestly if Shoshin lived and scum killed anyone else though we lose or comes close as I tunnel Shoshin

In post 5009, RadiantCowbells wrote:Like

You have a nightkill voyeured as being protected and you are still calling them scum with no known way for scum to have predicted the voyeur

That's not on shoshin..

Yes, I think that’s why the worst and me were hesitant to lynch Shoshin on D4, we were both having serious qualms about Realiity’s out there scumdoc theory. Contrary to your assertion, the theory of scumdoc Shoshin protecting and killing Nico is not at all similar to yours and Mastina’s vig gambit in Minuet. Why? Because you both already KNEW the outcome but you never had a reasonable case how Shoshin could have, so I’m pretty much smacking my head now, how I ever for a second ever fell for this absurd tinfoiling. Has there ever been a game in the entire history of Mafia where this has ever even happened?

In post 5016, MathBlade wrote:I hit the worst.

ouch!

In post 5019, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:

In post 5009, RadiantCowbells wrote:Like

You have a nightkill voyeured as being protected and you are still calling them scum with no known way for scum to have predicted the voyeur

That's not on shoshin..

Yes, I think that’s why the worst and me were hesitant to lynch Shoshin on D4, we were both having serious qualms about Realiity’s out there scumdoc theory. Contrary to your assertion, the theory of scumdoc Shoshin protecting and killing Nico is not at all similar to yours and Mastina’s vig gambit in Minuet. Why? Because you both already KNEW the outcome but you never had a reasonable case how Shoshin could have, so I’m pretty much smacking my head now, how I ever for a second ever fell for this absurd tinfoiling. Has there ever been a game in the entire history of Mafia where this has ever even happened?

Yeah ....one of my worst games ever.
And also a different one that was one of my best.

I've been in a game where scum had secret access to a neighborhood, Nancy.

Plus I was considering Wheme being scum too.

In post 5016, MathBlade wrote:I am just glad I hit the worst.

I think even with my wrong read on Shoshin that was the right play.

And if Shoshin died I would have tunneled Random. I was leaning there somewhat

Were you playing in this game under an alt? *seriously confuzzled*

In post 5022, Ankamius wrote:I've been in a game where scum had secret access to a neighborhood, Nancy.

Plus I was considering Wheme being scum too.

That was my game