Mafiascum.net

@Kagami You cannot disregard my argument by handwaving it and talking about something secondarily related.

As scum, Jester would not post that read because it would require the concious thought to act as a townie, which would belie the concious thought to analyze his post and read his faked opinion to the level where he would be entirely aware of how stupid what he's posting is.

But you clearly disagree for ~reasons~, in which case explain to me the scum motivation behind 1088.

@Pie I will sort smith and dunn. I will do my absolute best for you.

If smith is town, I would kill dunn if we're still around.

I'm saying that he did apply conscious thought to that read and thought it was reasonable, which he would do regardless of alignment. Scum make objectively bad arguments all the time, just as town do, and they usually believe they're right to make them.

The 1088 series is interesting, I agree.

How can it conceivably come from scum? Remember, if there is 0 chance scumJester could have posted 1088, there's 0 chance Jester is scum.

I think you're taking this at a very superficial level if you think there's no chance scum-jester generated that post.

If you think that means jester is town, then just continue on with all the rest of the rereads.

I don't think there's no chance scumJester generated that post.
I just can't find a reason for scumJester to generate that post.
I'm open to suggestions.

Also dismissing my reads as superficial is demonstrably untrue if you're actually reading what I'm posting, and could easily be read as a discredit.
Everything you've done today has very valid scum motivation, but that can wait until Kagami: The Post.

Even though we've already won because Jester/MDS is T/T I guess I'll keep going
If you disagree with my logic on Jester/MDS, please point to my posts earlier and logically question the conclusions I have reached, or alternatively link me to a post that incriminates them as scum with why that post was made by scumMDS or scumJester. If you can't do at least one of these, you must, by default, agree with my logic and therefore read Jester/MDS as T/T.
We need to work as a TEAM to get this game working. If I'm wrong, tell me why and tell me concisely. I can be convinced.

Parama: The Post

72
underrated post

205
This best exemplifies Parama's perspective on Jester atm. Parama picked up a heavy scumread on Jester based on 146 just like I initially did. I would question this, especially considering she pretty hard townread cerb at that point so the 'distancing' plan doesn't hold up, but I really do believe Parama just correlated 'Jester is being a fucking idiot' with 'Jester is scum' without thinking too hard about the potential scum motivation behind his post.

214
Oh dear. It begins.
Parama buys into a wording slip (always a bad idea) and then pushes it beyond all bounds.
Parama disappears deep into a tunnel.
Strong scum motivation to get an easy mislynch, but this doesn't hold up to scrutiny because she keeps pushing it past the point where most of town has said 'eh not really' and keeps pushing it anyway. Town motivation for that is 'Shadow just slipped and is obvscum please lynch this', especially with how she keeps pushing later in the game.

373
No scum motivation to point this out apart from a weak 'Scumread my partner for towncred' which is possible, but kinda unlikely I feel.

379
I think here we see Parama falling into the same trap MDS did, but not as hard. It's easy to scumread somebody you don't like.

407
Really weak defense here. Scum motivation would be to paint Kagami in a bad light, except for the fact that with no fuel to burn her argument pitters and patters when questioned. I feel like if that was the intention of this post, she would have dropped it all in 387 instead of waiting until questioned. This reads much more to me as 'Eugh I can't explain why this puts me off' rather than 'Well I wasn't expecting to be questioned so I'm gonna have to make some shit up'.

505
Worth noting Parama is townleaning Arthur at this point. Town motivation for this post is to get some more information and reasoning out of Arthur to sort him, scum motivation is literally only to make yourself look like you're doing that. Slight townpoints for this post.

570
'I scumread Shadow because lolslip and he's a jerk'. Yep, seeing some flashbacks to MDS. The logic from that applies here too, although being weaker.

632
Here is parama, still pushing the shadow scumslip. This could be scum desperately attempting to look like a tunneled townie, or a tunneled townie who truly believes in their read. I think the latter is a little more likely here.

854
Really bleeding town here.
I feel like scum would at least try and fabricate a more in depth case on shadow beyond 'HE SLIPPED' or give up when they realize it has no traction. Parama is just pushing balls to the wall. It screams wrong townie far more than misleading scum. Scum would be far more diplomatic about it, I feel.

1263
Points out an obvious contradiction in Shadow's actions. Not really alignment indicative, as town he would use this as more fuel to get obvscum lynched, as scum he would use this as more fuel to get a mislynch. It's absolutely worth noting that this is a completely legitimate bold-faced lie and is just as incriminating as Parama makes it out to be.

1409
Was fine with Gamma/Vedith dying, T/T. Was fine with Shadow/Mariar dying, T/T. Reflects bad in hindsight.

1438
This is horrible. I can't conceive any good reason to find the linked post 'great', and it reads like straight off buddying. Conceivable town motivation could be to call more people to townread HS, but the logic that's based on is once again shaky.

Parama is really tough to read. A lot of posts are null/aren't worth mentioning. This is where I have to stop this because it's becoming a little grating, but I intend to return with renewed vigor tomorrow. It's looking like Parama will end up unsure, and thus on the lynch list
(implying he wasn't already because mds/jester is t/t)

^that reads horrible, I'm so sorry it's so convoluted and messy.

Allow me a further discredit then:

Your model is terrible if you believe all our even most scum-posts carry scum motivation.

That said, I do like the review since it involves highlighting posts I've long forgotten existed.

Most scum-posting is made with little more thought than: "this is something I can say that doesn't implicate my partners, I shall say it. "

HS, you keep trying to say that Jester would not make posts as scum because "there is no reason he'd generate that post as scum", but the posts you're referring to are all posts he'd just make as scum doing what they think they'd do as town. you ask why Jester would make those posts as scum, there's your reason. is it valid to scum read him for a post that's "what he thought he'd do as town"? no, but you can't go anywhere near claiming that he has no reason to make the post as scum because he does.

I also think your assessment of 146 is backwards. as scum he has every reason to feign a push like that early in the game, namely he needs to look like he's scum hunting and he fears that he will look bad if he has no "scum reads" that he is pushing.

What is up with the garbage reasoning that's been going on in the thread.

MDS "Dunn and mhsmith can't be scum together"

HS "Jester is bad so he's town"

HS "Parama is town because of random posts"

Seriously what the fuck. If you guys are town I will not let you lose me the game like exactly what happened last game with UT being scum and I called for his lynch day 1 and he fucking got away to endgame and win because of "there's no way he can be scum with the other flipped". Its literally the same fucking shit you people are doing with these random assosciation ruiling out without a scum flip and letting Parama slide with scummy posting.

>make big push trying to solve the game
>be an idiot
>3/3 call you out for being an idiot

ow
my emotions
-crawling by linkin park plays faintly in the background-

Anyway Arthur that isn't actually what I said about parama at all, if you'd read you'd see i'm 'unsure' on her.

In post 4988, Human Sequencer wrote:

arthur wrote:Parama/MDS/Dunn??
Parama/MDS/mhsmith??

I townread literally everybody arthur wants to lynch. Lynch this.

HOLD THE PHONE ACTUALLY

I 100% rescind my townread on smith. Check this out.

Spoiler: Smith a few months ago, newbie 1714

Smith wrote:Also, I have to say this was my best wolfing effort ever BY FAR. Usually I'm much worse than this. And while there were some down spots, I really, truly did have fun.

Smith wrote:I really did enjoy playing with you all, and I hope you had fun as well.

I know this is super old news to most of you but my townread on smith relied on his personality just not working with the play he'd have to pull off here in a scum slot.
Now I'm not so sure. This was the asterisk, I always needed to check this out but just never got around to it.
After seeing his play in 1714 compared to his play here, he's no longer a townread.

Jester/mds is my preferred endgame pair.

Out of curiosity, how would you say my play in 1714 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8008929 compares to what I've done here? Like, I'd say that it's pretty wildly different, including

- basically zero emotion ever
- lots of useless posts
- lots of lurking (though in fairness I lurk as either alignment at times)
like, I subbed in on d2, hammered beeboy for the win on day 3, and made only 30 posts in between those points in time, and about half of them were pretty transparently useless. I also managed to go the entire game without showing any kind of frustration about the fact that town was doing really really badly, no actual anger at vandit having screwed over the town with his day 1 lolhammer, etc. Part of the reason that it was fun was that it was EASY. I was able to coast like crazy with no one ever pushing me or even much caring what I had to say. I was "town", and everyone was busy with their tunnels, so, unlike a lot of games where things fell apart (and the stack of scum losses on my resume makes it fairly obvious that this has been common for me, though I do think I've left my "lol smith is awful at scum" phase behind), I was able to more or less enjoy myself and be busy with trying to PR hunt instead of really having to worry about blending in.

PS I'd also say that my 1714 was a pretty good example of what I was talking about in my earlier discussion with scout about his read that kagami "seemed genuine" (as well as his flagrant lack of interest in discussing what it meant or doing any kind of self-evaluation on that point). Like, look at my posts in those games (at least the non shit posts), and the content in them was fine (I had some benefit there having incorrectly established a scum-read on vandit before I subbed in, fwiw).

If your read on me on that game was whether I "seemed genuine", based on making reasonable-sounding posts, asking decent questions, and not screwing up in any kind of obvscum way, then you would have (very incorrectly) town read me there. It's also what a bunch of halfway decent scum players can play like, including off the top of my head: Harb (on playdip, he was scum in my first mafia game ever and wrecked the town that was mainly lazy and lynchbaits), Titus (that my scum game resembles hers in this manner is probably why I'm so good at recognizing it), and probably a few others that I can't ID off the top of my head (PantherPunt, another very good player, plays scum also as a dampened version of his town game, but it's a bit different in a wya that I can't really put my finger on off the top of my head). That was why I pushed specifically on that point: "seeming genuine" is the easiest thing in the world for a competent scum player to fake, especially if that read is based mainly on said player merely not saying anythign particularly stupid (and since scout wasn't interested in expounding on his read there, that's what I'm more or less assuming his point was).

PPS I'd actually say my scum game has improved since 1714 in a few ways, but ignoring that fact, I'm curious why you'd think 1714 was particularly comparable to this game.

In post 5038, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:What is up with the garbage reasoning that's been going on in the thread.

MDS "Dunn and mhsmith can't be scum together"

HS "Jester is bad so he's town"

HS "Parama is town because of random posts"

Seriously what the fuck. If you guys are town I will not let you lose me the game like exactly what happened last game with UT being scum and I called for his lynch day 1 and he fucking got away to endgame and win because of "there's no way he can be scum with the other flipped". Its literally the same fucking shit you people are doing with these random assosciation ruiling out without a scum flip and letting Parama slide with scummy posting.

Not sure yet on parama but I completely agree with the larger point about the stupidity of trying to push strong associations, much less trying to guess the whole scum team, pre-flip.

In post 5039, Human Sequencer wrote:>make big push trying to solve the game
>be an idiot
>3/3 call you out for being an idiot

ow
my emotions
-crawling by linkin park plays faintly in the background-

Anyway Arthur that isn't actually what I said about parama at all, if you'd read you'd see i'm 'unsure' on her.

Yeah that's how I feel. Just ignore them because they're all scum or dumb or something.

Hint: Our reads are the same now

mhsmith "thinks I may be town" but wastes time while deadline comes closer so we're forced to suicide.

He also ignored me asking about his read on pie being inverse to his read on me, presumably to waste more time

pieguy continues to push any pair that isn't her own, and throws shade at my choices for the lynch and casts doubt on them.

WE've got 3 days left from here: parama group isn't going to hit a lynch. Scout group isn't going to hit a lynch. My group is going to suicide at the end of the timer to stop scum from winning; vote smith pair if you think they're likelier scum than me

In post 5036, Kagami wrote:Most scum-posting is made with little more thought than: "this is something I can say that doesn't implicate my partners, I shall say it. "

Not sure I agree with this, btw

What happened to your super plan where I had to sheep you dunn?

What are you talking about

In post 4306, Dunnstral wrote:scout - in time my friend follow up

This was in response to me wanting to lynch mhsmith pie


Please also note that I was joking, I'm happy with mhsmith votes.

In post 5044, Dunnstral wrote:WE've got 3 days left from here: parama group isn't going to hit a lynch.

???????

Everyone and their mother has Parama as scummy or some form of "needs to flip".

If this wagon doesn't happen literally more proof that scum are derailing it or that this town is too inconsistent and indecisive to actually push through with a wagon.