Mafiascum.net

votecount 1.19

itlepip (4) - Spiffeh, MarioManiac4, 3dicerolling, Cold Pizza
Spiffeh (2) - itlepip, Suzune
Maxous (2) - Antihero, Vayne Aurelius
Saki (3) - notscience, Gilgamesh The King Of Heroes, CharlotteBebe
MarioManiac4 (1) - Maxous
CharlotteBebe (1) - Saki

Not voting (1) - Zexion

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is November 12, 12:30 GMT-7 or in (expired on 2015-11-12 12:30:00).

I'm curious saki, how do you know there is a red role pm? I see nothing about it in first post.

why can't i get reeeeeeeeeads

↑ Saki wrote:[Suzune's]

play

so far has not (technically) been pro-town very much, but her

intent

shows no signs of a red role pm.

↑ 3dicerolling wrote:I'm curious saki, how do you know there is a red role pm? I see nothing about it in first post.

↑ Flay Gunnar wrote:The following is public knowledge: the setup consists of a

Town

faction versus a

single

groupscum faction, where "groupscum" is defined as having more than one player. It is not public knowledge whether other alignments exist in the game.

@MM4

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:

↑ Saki wrote:[Suzune's]

play

so far has not (technically) been pro-town very much, but her

intent

shows no signs of a red role pm.

↑ 3dicerolling wrote:I'm curious saki, how do you know there is a red role pm? I see nothing about it in first post.

↑ Flay Gunnar wrote:The following is public knowledge: the setup consists of a

Town

faction versus a

single

groupscum faction, where "groupscum" is defined as having more than one player. It is not public knowledge whether other alignments exist in the game.

UNVOTE
VOTE: SAKI
VOTE: SAKI

Gate of Babylon: Saki
Chains of Heaven: Saki
Unleash Ea
Enuma Elish, The Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth: Saki

Dang man, you just went ham

↑ Saki wrote:mollie-ankamius interaction ("why do you think im scum" -> "here" -> "ok, anything else?" -> "no" -> "you haven't been listening to me!")

- Why would ank care more about mollie's scumread on his partner rather than his partner's take on mollie's alignment[/quote]

I'll just ignore the fact that the first half of that quote is a blatant misrep for the moment.

Both of these are answered by the same thing so I'll just do it in one take:

Mollie and I have history and I know for a fact that she pays attention to what I put in the thread as town and is aware that if she's town, I'll eventually get to that conclusion and be willing to work with her to solve the game. The fact that she basically went behind my back to scumread the slot based on Gork's actions without trying to engage me, tried to sidestep my resulting engagement on her is eyebrow-raising at best.

It's significantly more likely that she didn't want to risk me catching her, so she decided to try to preemptively give herself a reason not to engage with me.

anti-ankamius interaction ("i'm not townreading you so you must be scum")

Have you ever played with antihero before?

also, in general, zero harmony within the hydra (won't discuss reads together, don't even look over each other's scumreads)
this is just pathetic considering that the reason you hydra is to compile reads
and the whole not-considering-each-others' scum-reads bit just screams "i don't care about who i lynch" and that's really not a good attitude to have in a game, whatever color your role pm might be

lmao

There's no way in hell you believe this logic is sound. The fact that you're even mentioning this is scummy as fuck.

-Ank

-Ank

Oh, also, I'll tear into Saki's response to me after I run some time sensitive errands. Her newfound townread on me will not sway my opinions very far, if at all.

*his

My apologies.

Who can spot the bus vote?

↑ Saki wrote:

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:It's incredibly confusing that you would give me implied townpoints for voting and suspecting Suzune

never did this

482 - "suzune vote, max vig is a plus"

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:I can only infer you now are reading Suzune as town

never did that

Again, then why not keep your vote and continue to gather information? Why vote me unless you think Suzune is town? Because if you think I'm scum, you can't have a scumread on Saki, unless you think we're both scum, in which case... Why not leave your vote on Suzune and see what I do?

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:as even if we were both scum, you could simply help me bus my buddy to test your theory

what is up with that gigantic jump in logic
i dont get how you got to this step

You were voting Suzune.
I voted Suzune.
You voted me.
Therefore, I can only infer that your read on Suzune is closer to town than scum. Otherwise, see above.

I'm not sure how to spell this out any simpler.

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:To borrow some of you phrasing, why not go for a more information-giving lynch? Especially considering allowing the Suzune wagon to grow increases information, something very useful to someone who has an iffy read on said wagonee.

Suzune has very little interaction with the playerbase due to being a replacement, apart from the people on her wagon
vs
someone who's been here and actively participated all game

plus, wagoning someone for information is putting the cart before the horse
if you're going for an information lynch but first you have to generate information, that's not right

Okay, so if we're talking about voting and pressuring players that have been participating all game, why choose me when I made a horribly late entrance? Suzune has been in this game longer than I have, technically.

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:I also don't like that you have an innate scumread on the miller claim

i never said this

↑ Saki wrote:(leaning scum)
CharlotteBebe
GKOH (something to do with notty's flavor)

Maxous (miller claim)

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:I don't think Max is confirmed town by any means, but it's not something worth pursuing D1, so it feels like you're using that as an excuse to vote me, honestly. Call the miller scum and hide behind "well, I don't want to lynch a miller claim D1", or some such.

the miller claim has nothing to do with my vote on you

483 - "i am not liking how my pressure vote on suzune turned into a wagon. i think there is at least one scum on the wagon. so gilg/maxous

So, why are you voting me over Max, then?

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:going along with ns' "oh, he misinterpreted me being a king instead of a knight" logic

that's not the case notscience is making vs you
and it's not the reason why I'm scumreading you[/quote]

Well, why you scumreading me, then? Because your 482/3 go from reading me as town to a sudden scumread without any explanation.

Also from 482 - "really forced towntell from mollie, kudos to anti for catching it".

So why are you voting me over Max for being on the Suzune wagon? If you're objecting to me saying you're reading Suzune as town, why did you jump off the wagon? If you don't have a scumread on the miller claim, why are you not voting notscience now given the above quote and your newfound townread on me?

Why don't any of your reads seem to line up with what you're saying?

Notty, answer my questions.

↑ Antihero wrote:so... instead of voting the wagon you're leaning scum on + 2 votes you start a new vanity wagon...

awesome... i'll go fuck myself now.

i missed this post earlier
no, i dont think suzune is scum
you know as well as i do that suzune is a bad wagon

no, gilgamesh is not a vanity wagon

keep fucking yourself
you haven't done jack shit this game apart from say sorry to mollie and throw shit back and forth with ankamius

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:how exactly was i extending rvs.

i liked the second vote on gifsoon
but you two went from engaging spiffeh on that point to randomly voting itlepip

objectively, i don't see that as anything other than de-railing the focus on your ic vote reaction test (which is by far the only thing that's happened at that point)

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:where did i misrep mollie ever.

her replacing out should be enough evidence for that

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:

saki wrote:("i didn't really read your scumgame but you still really don't look town")

if you exaggerate any point it sounds bad.
this is what youre doing here and its scummy as fuck.

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:

saki wrote:Why would ank care more about mollie's scumread on his partner rather than his partner's take on mollie's alignment

because town wincon = lynching scum and scum wincon = not getting lynched
ank not commenting on your scumread on mollie at all
and asking her instead about why she's scumreading you (defending your actions)
looks like ank is playing to scum wincon
do i really need to spell this out

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:

saki wrote:anti-ankamius interaction ("i'm not townreading you so you must be scum")

you can pressure someone for not doing anything, that's ok play
scumreading them for not doing anything three(four) rl days into day one is piss poor shit

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:

saki wrote: zero harmony within the hydra (won't discuss reads together, don't even look over each other's scumreads)

me disagreeing with ank privately does not mean that we arent talking.
i disagree with some of his reads but im not going to actively stand in front of him on it in thread and instead talk about it with him where it wont be a distraction.

you arent doing this. you seem to be actively ignoring whatever ankamius has to say.
tip: please keep your own fucking reads from the thread since a) they're absolute shit
if you are going to put down the first thing that comes to your head in the thread instead of in your hydra topic you're doing it wrong
if your hydra partner has to ask people why they think you're scum something is very, very wrong
i would seriously consider policy lynching/vigging/even a modkill on that kind of crappy shit

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:feel free to tell me how your points on notty arent full of shit. because theres no way hes at the top of your townlist based on what youve said about him so far.

i dont ever recall saying that my readslist was ordered by strength of read
and please tell me where specifically you think what i've said about notty is 'full of shit' instead of flinging squirrel dung at it, tia

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:basically everything youre saying is garbage and the first bit of your case is actively ignoring details and making shit up and kind of scummy so please tell me how im wrong or i can feel justified in thinking youre a scumfuck.

lmao

↑ Saki wrote:then scumreading her for replacing out (please notify me of a single time where a replace-out was patently alignment-indicative)

also, you aren't going to say anything about this?
think you missed it

↑ 3dicerolling wrote:I'm curious saki, how do you know there is a red role pm? I see nothing about it in first post.

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:

↑ Saki wrote:[Suzune's]

play

so far has not (technically) been pro-town very much, but her

intent

shows no signs of a red role pm.

↑ 3dicerolling wrote:I'm curious saki, how do you know there is a red role pm? I see nothing about it in first post.

↑ Flay Gunnar wrote:The following is public knowledge: the setup consists of a

Town

faction versus a

single

groupscum faction, where "groupscum" is defined as having more than one player. It is not public knowledge whether other alignments exist in the game.

UNVOTE
VOTE: SAKI
VOTE: SAKI

Gate of Babylon: Saki
Chains of Heaven: Saki
Unleash Ea
Enuma Elish, The Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth: Saki

may i kindly remind you that the generic color for a scum role pm is red
and pretty much every game with a single groupscum faction has the scum role pm be red?

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:Mollie and I have history and I know for a fact that she pays attention to what I put in the thread as town and is aware that if she's town, I'll eventually get to that conclusion and be willing to work with her to solve the game. The fact that she basically went behind my back to scumread the slot based on Gork's actions without trying to engage me, then tried to sidestep my resulting engagement on her is eyebrow-raising at best.

It's significantly more likely that she didn't want to risk me catching her, so she decided to try to preemptively give herself a reason not to engage with me.

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:Have you ever played with antihero before?

yes
but you dont have to be a fucking rocket scientist to figure out that he's obviously disinterested and apathetic towards the game
if you scum-read him not providing useful content halfway into d1 imo that's a borderline trust tell and just absolute bullshit because it doesn't work out that way
people aren't fucking machines

↑ CharlotteBebe wrote:lmao

There's no way in hell you believe this logic is sound. The fact that you're even mentioning this is scummy as fuck.

it's sound
please tell me how a hydra that doesnt compile scumreads is helpful to the town in any way

↑ Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:Well, why are you scumreading me, then? Because your 482/3 go from reading me as town to a sudden scumread without any explanation.

Also from 482 - "really forced towntell from mollie, kudos to anti for catching it".

So why are you voting me over Max for being on the Suzune wagon? If you're objecting to me saying you're reading Suzune as town, why did you jump off the wagon? If you don't have a scumread on the miller claim, why are you not voting notscience now given the above quote and your newfound townread on me?

Why don't any of your reads seem to line up with what you're saying?

first of all, im not scumreading you anymore
and my initial scumread came from the fact that your suzune vote was opportunistic
im not going to explain again why i voted you over max
i already explained why suzune was a bad wagon
i dont see the miller claim as scum, nor as town
ive already explained that too

you're pretty much just going in circles and trying to bite your tail atm


maybe i can offer one piece of advice
mafia is not about black and white
ive outlined the difference between and
take, for example, the gifsoon wagon in RVS
it's obviously anti-town shitty scum play (voting confirmed town)
but im pretty sure none of the people that voted were intending to lynch
they were pretty obviously intending to bait out a reaction from some people

you can call out people for bad play but you cannot lynch them for poor play unless they're absolute dipshits like Slandaar or T S O (if you ever happen to meet either one in a game, policy lynch day one.)

@ank
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_psychology
should help you understand why threatening someone (who's already apathetic enough) with your vote is not going to get them to do what you want them to do

saki wrote:i liked the second vote on gifsoon
but you two went from engaging spiffeh on that point to randomly voting itlepip

objectively, i don't see that as anything other than de-railing the focus on your ic vote reaction test (which is by far the only thing that's happened at that point)

except i gave reasons for thinking both 3dice and itle were scummy at the time, thus making it not an rvs vote.
it was in direct response to the reaction test youre referring to.

saki wrote:her replacing out should be enough evidence for that

right. how descriptive.

saki wrote:"you're pressuring me wah wah wah im a baby and i dont like it when ppl pick on me wah wah wah"
"so mollie must be playing to her scummeta because she's picking on me wah wah wah"
you have not actually drawn a parallel between mollie's scumgame and her play here
the number of posts you quoted from that game is zero

and i never implied that the scumread i had at the time was at any point strong based on that readthrough of the meta.
transition was
i) "mollie and notty arent striking me as town and thats kinda sketch"
ii) "mollie's meta from her scumgame from what ive read is similar enough that i cant say that this is her towngame and her push on my slot is similarly void of any kind of substance in a way thats similar to how she opened into that scumgame she linked such that i can see her being scum" and i established that there were other people that i was scumreading much more strongly at this point so you going "OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW COULD GORK BE PUSHING MOLLIE ON THESE WEAK POINTS" is pretty much absolutely fucking moot.
iii) mollie started seeming more like scum the more she started to devolve the argument into abstract and distracting bullshit instead of actually talking to me, which especially seemed scummy because she had literally just got out of a game where she deathtunneled someone on d1 as town and mislynched them for better reasons than what shed given so far in this game.
saying that someone is scummy because they said theyd looked at a game youd linked because they couldnt have read the whole thing is pretty garbage and she refused to acknowledge that and just kept digging deeper when i pointed that out. i think the manner in which she did it felt more like scum frustration than town frustration.

saki wrote:in these slew of posts you have called mollie out for playing to her scum meta by pressuring you

except that isnt what i did. i didnt say "mollie only pressures people as scum!"
again boil it down to something more vanilla and you can make anything sound scummy.
saying you see one thing that looked like something she did in a scumgame and that nothing shes done so far is strikingly town is pretty reasonable.
i keep wanting to say both of you are just scum, but i feel like youre not scum together so whatever.

saki wrote:do i really need to spell this out

sometimes, yes. remember, im an idiot that you can abuse on the internet? ;D

saki wrote:ank not commenting on your scumread on mollie at all
and asking her instead about why she's scumreading you (defending your actions)

except that isnt why ank asked her why she was scumreading our slot.
he thought it was scummy that she chose to have a shouting match with me instead of engaging ank who she has more experience with.

saki wrote:you arent doing this. you seem to be actively ignoring whatever ankamius has to say.

do I need to spell this out for you?
when theres a read that ank has that i dont agree with. i try to talk it out with him in our pt.
just because we're not super in sync or planning our moves out doesnt mean we arent talking.

saki wrote:i dont ever recall saying that my readslist was ordered by strength of read
and please tell me where specifically you think what i've said about notty is 'full of shit' instead of flinging squirrel dung at it, tia

i literally linked quotes regarding it..
you saying "CBvsnotty is TvS" and "notty did something sketchy spiff pls tell me if theres some reason for this in the neighborhood!" are the strongest statements youve said regarding notty that i saw. which does not match a townread. at all.

saki wrote:also, you aren't going to say anything about this?
think you missed it

it reminded me of times when ive replaced out as scum/other people have replaced out as scum in high pressure situations. it just felt that way. and no im not saying it was strategic.

saki wrote:please tell me how a hydra that doesnt compile scumreads is helpful to the town in any way

god you are just so unpleasant.
i dont even really feel like i have reads anymore.
im just annoyed.
-.-

like, i get that im a piece of shit.
but i just get this distinct feeling that your main goal here isnt to make us seem scummy or figure us out, its to make us feel bad.

As I was going to post a V/LA post

V/LA until Saturday

Catch up post coming~

↑ notscience wrote:Who can spot the bus vote?

In my opinion quite a few of those votes are bus votes. Which one in particular are you talking about?

I don't understand suggesting a mafia role pm is red, is some kind of scum tell. Usually mafia is red, kind of the generic color. If she was suggesting that someone was third party and the color or if there was a second mafia faction then I could see this being kind of odd. However, calling a mafia pm red is hardly mysterious to me. Therefore it is not a huge leap of logic to suggest that mafia pms are red.