In post 523, Madoka wrote:I change my mind on Trollie. I think we should focus on Bambi, Espresso, and Gera.
What do you think of mavs?
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:04 pm
by Madoka
In post 523, Madoka wrote:I change my mind on Trollie. I think we should focus on Bambi, Espresso, and Gera.
Actually nevermind. I felt like scum!trollie wouldn't tunnel this hard. I think scum are more likely to back down when faced with resistance/contradiction to their push as to avoid the fallout if it goes through. And I've given so many openings for Trollie to change her view but he has held firm to his position.
I think this may be because 489, however. Trollie may have been moving toward backing off of me, but Gera's post put him in a position where he could no longer do so without affirming his suspicions. So his tunneling is NAI.
Cat, I'll answer you once I get a response from mavs.
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:37 pm
by Cat Scratch Fever
In post 526, Madoka wrote:Actually nevermind. I felt like scum!trollie wouldn't tunnel this hard. I think scum are more likely to back down when faced with resistance/contradiction to their push as to avoid the fallout if it goes through. And I've given so many openings for Trollie to change her view but he has held firm to his position.
Is this like mafia horseshoe theory? People who are willing to reassess are town, people who show unnatural resistance to reassessing are scum, and people who tunnel so hard swing back to town?
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:39 pm
by Madoka
I've never heard of it, but yes that was my thinking.
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:48 pm
by BBmolla
CSF is town
iDany is still a good wagon
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:44 am
by TheTrollie
Just read these two posts. I think they tell different stories of how she read skell. Also i still really think this first post is super scummy:
Spoiler:
In post 402, Madoka wrote:Oh, I see where you're getting hung up. You're misinterpreting the meaning of towntell (or rather Skellen misinterpreted your use). She meant towntell as in
something designed specifically to look like a town slip
. So she was asking you what you thought was designed to look like a town slip. She wasn't scum reading Allo because she felt his posts were designed to look like a town slips. She was scumreading him because she felt he was scummy (fence-sitting and hopping).
Your interpretation of what she meant by towntell is
something that comes from town
. From that perspective, I can see how you could perceive her suspicions as contradictory. Again, however, that is not what she was insinuating. Based on what she thought you meant by towntell, she was asking what you felt were deliberate acts of Allo to look townie. And since she perceived his actions as scummy, not townie, it makes sense that your reasoning stood out to her.
It was more that I thought she had a greater chance of being town than rand% based on her catchup, her newbie status, and quick comparison to her mini normal 2111 iso. Scum are more likely to be hypersensitive to potential inconsistencies as they want to maintain a consistent narrative. Town are more reckless/stream of consciousy without really caring about their presentation. Her questioning trolley's Allo read in 121 then voting Allo in 122 indicated that she was playing stream of consciousy and not to make friends. An alternative example of how scum!skellen might act in this case is either
defend
Allo or
buddy
Trolley. But the fact that she questioned both, tells me she was in a scumhunting mindset, not a presentation mindset.
(There was also the possibility that she and Trolley were mates because her question did look like scum might address their partner, but I didn't think this likely based off trolley's side of the interaction)
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:09 am
by Madoka
I don't think I can empathize with this one. Can you specifically lay out what you believe to be contradictory?
In post 501, Titus wrote:If someone is active and a weaker scumread, keeping them alive over a lurker with a weaker scumread serves two purposes. First, the active slot will actually produce content allowing the read to be confirmed or denied. The second is that an active scumfuck will lead you to their partners if you're good enough to listen to what people want as opposed to the literal text of their words. A lurker will just continue to lurk.
I agree with this.
I'd vote Bambi actually for this alone - I like her but like, just going out there and saying "eh ill wait till day 2 to do anything" is p anti-town.
p-edit: speak of the devil
These comments are why I think Expresso's comments of don't lynch Dany, he's a lurker are bad and possibly partner indicative. Both of them need to die/be investigated.
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:18 am
by Titus
We have less than 3 days and no major wagons. Even if you disagree with me, please vote.
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:31 am
by mavsfan41
@Madoka: in response to your post 512 I’m not necessarily saying that I disagree with your argument. I’m more inclined to believe Trollie’s case against Skellen. It’s tough cause since Skellen was replaced out, that’s why I’ve been more focused on Skellen’s posts. You’re put in a tough spot subbing (and I’m guessing without communicating to Skellen) that you hafta to defend her stances not knowing what she is thinking. Trollie made a read and started hammering it non-stop. Your explanation for Skellen’s post is more a “theory” for lack of a better term
@Cat: so the game you’re referring to, the scum were Profii, BEF, and Aloratom. Other than BEF late in day 1, I actually had none of the scum (aloratom was brought to my attention but I had no prior read of scum for him.) I was the catalyst for the bob3141 wagon that eventually lead him to be mislynched day 1. Other wagons of mine, I had were started against the wrong person. And although wagons against town aren’t necessarily a bad thing as you can read the person and others who jump on it or defend it, that game town wagons were bad. Conversation was hijacked by a certain player and wagons were either not able to fully form OR weren’t allowed to stop. With me picking bad wagons in that game, I wanted to relax that in subsequent games and not be as aggressive. I was all pro-wagon on everyone in that game and it didn’t work out. I think strongly suspecting certain people in that game led me to miss the obv scum. Profii I should’ve figured out when he offered to hold off on aloratom in day 2 for geraintm (who looked very very town) to satisfy another player. But when I saw that, I had already convinced myself Profii was town. So I wanted to relax how I play as it wasn’t until day 3 scum was lynched in that game.
As for your 525: those are the players I would classify as lurking. So I don’t hate the idea of going after them for more content. Any of them could be scum and slip through day 1 pretty easily. As for those 3, Bambi I’ve never played with but Espressojet lurked hardcore in the game you referenced so I’m more comfortable with him doing his thing. As for geraintm, he’s been lurking recently and I don’t like that. I will say in the last game he was pretty active but there were different circumstances around that as he was being pushed by a certain player.
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:37 am
by Madoka
Mavs, I don't understand. My case directly contradicts Trolleys, so if you don't disagree with it why are you giving weight to Trolleys? Yes it's a theory, but so is Trolleys. The difference is that I
know
Skellen had good intentions so it's not like I'm just pulling it out of a hat.
Do you agree that the posts Trollie quoted above are contradictory?
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:39 am
by Madoka
Vote: Trollie
Espresso and Titus, what do you think of Trollie vs Madoka?
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:44 am
by Madoka
Also Titus I agree that Espresso was defending Dany there, but it looks more like TMI scum defending town than it does defending their partner. I don't see why they would need to put themselves out there when Dany wasn't in immediate danger and could have defended himself/tuned up his play.
In post 538, Madoka wrote:Also Titus I agree that Espresso was defending Dany there, but it looks more like TMI scum defending town than it does defending their partner. I don't see why they would need to put themselves out there when Dany wasn't in immediate danger and could have defended himself/tuned up his play.
Then a vote on Expresso would be preferred. You could be right.