Mafiascum.net

In post 514, Kay Mask wrote:

In post 509, Katrielle Mask wrote:

In post 507, Kay Mask wrote:Like the thing in question is "trying to look active for the sake of looking active." What is your proof that I'm doing that rather than just engaging in the ways in which I prefer?

The latter is not exclusive to the former. You probably are engaging in ways that you prefer, and you probably prefer to engage in ways that advance the game thread very little. This is a false dichotomy.

You're right; according to your narrow definition of advancing the game, my posts don't do that. But the dichotomy isn't between doing what I like and not advancing the game; it's between specifically trying to pretend as though I'm contributing, versus just doing what I feel like doing (which is assumed to NOT be deceptive in that case). That is a real dichotomy; either I'm intending to be deceptive, or I'm not. You seem to be implying that I am. That's the part I take issue with.

No, not "according to my narrow definition," and the stated dichotomy I quoted you saying is what I mentioned in the previous post. Stop trying to back-track and restate things as items they're not. There is no false dichotomy between you being deceptive and you not being deceptive. You are the person that declared yourself deceptive for your actions. You are the person that tried to make a false dichotomy between the way you enjoy playing and playing falsely.

In post 515, Kay Mask wrote:

In post 506, Katrielle Mask wrote:Now that's a bad faith argument and not a response to my argument.

It is a response. You said that if I just called everyone town then I'd be right on 80% of people-- well, of course, that means that calling everyone town is a dumb thing to do and not helpful. It just means that the accuracy rate on townhunting has to be higher than 80% for it to be good townhunting. If I have three townreads and they're all correct, that would be useful, no?

It looks like an intentional misrepresentation of my point, which is that players are going to have a significantly higher rate of finding town than scum. Finding three town and being right on them is going to happen in every game, so no, it's not particularly helpful. If you as a player reliably found all of town greater than 80% of the time, that would be helpful. Nothing past that.

In post 521, Karma Mask wrote:Katri gives me counterwagoning vibes. She is very eager to push inactive slots but when koma outright refused to contribute here, she just ignored it. I didn't even see koma pocketing katri or doing anything that could emotionally influence her to make out-of-character move.
VOTE: komainu

My difficulty is with players contributing very little while caring quite a bit. That's what I've said multiple times now.

Make no mistake - this isn't a miscommunicative TvT, this is Kay restating what I'm saying incorrectly, and then when I try to correct her, trying to restate her original statement.

Ugh. Actually it could be she just doesn't understand what I'm saying and that would be grossly disappointing.

Even though you don't know who I am, I should hope you think highly enough of me to expect that I wouldn't intentionally misconstrue you to make you look bad, because that wouldn't even work?

If you're trying to argue that townhunting isn't a real thing and that I'm making it up to push a scum agenda I... don't know what to tell you. I can go through some random games and look for examples of it but that sounds like hell. Better is to ask the other players here if they think it's legit or not.

Regarding the dichotomy, it does really seem that we aren't understanding each other correctly. Can you try to state, in as simple terms as possible, what the dichotomy you are talking about is, and why you think I must be on one side of it rather than the other?

In post 528, Kay Mask wrote:Even though you don't know who I am, I should hope you think highly enough of me to expect that I wouldn't intentionally misconstrue you to make you look bad, because that wouldn't even work?

I think you would intentionally misconstrue me to make you not look as bad. And yes, it works all the time, lol.

If you're trying to argue that townhunting isn't a real thing and that I'm making it up to push a scum agenda I... don't know what to tell you. I can go through some random games and look for examples of it but that sounds like hell. Better is to ask the other players here if they think it's legit or not.

I'm not arguing that it's scummy to think that. I'm arguing that thinking that townhunting is an effective measure to solve games, you're ignoring obvious statistics. I'm arguing that the approach of finding town vise scum is a failure to understand "scumhunting" as it is. Players with no capacity for reads will constantly consider themselves effective town hunters because 80% of the time they will be right - they will look at a player and say "this player is town for this reason," and regardless of whether or not that particular indicator has anything to do with alignment, 80% of the time they will be right. Then you get players who think they are significantly more competent and try to excuse this "I know what I"m doing, I'm townhunting" approach and it's anti-town because they find three players they think are town and then call the game over. Then you end up in lylo with that player and they realize they never had any clue what they were doing.

Regarding the dichotomy, it does really seem that we aren't understanding each other correctly. Can you try to state, in as simple terms as possible, what the dichotomy you are talking about is, and why you think I must be on one side of it rather than the other?

I have to go for a minute. If you stop reading all my posts as trying to implicate you as scum, that will help. Not everything I"m saying is trying to frame you or set you up. I will likely restate again later.

Target	Wagon
Kim (1)	Kirk (371)
Kitsune (1)	Komainu (412)
Kirk (1)	Kim (423)
Kay (1)	Katrielle (494)
Komainu (1)	Karma (521)
Not Voting (2)	Kay, Kitsune (517)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. The Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 21:47:59).

In post 496, Kay Mask wrote:Man this is irritating, this is normally where I'd make a meta appeal...

There's at least one person who knows who I am right? Can you back me up here?

tbh i know who you are or at least who you're imitating and this still feels like less than you usually do overall

i do wonder why you're being so lax with your identity and even asking for meta defenses when scum can literally kill you if they get it right. i'd get if you were trying to make scum waste a shot or kill themselves but now that you're asking for meta defenses and trying to not be scumread for how you're playing, it makes that less likely and makes me more susp of the motivation there

Even despite this I think it unlikely that all but the people who know me well will be able to guess me, and for those people if they were really invested in it I would have to significantly change my play to avoid being guessed, and I don't think it's worth it.

I guess that's an argument for moving the day along quicker, because it gives scum less time to figure it out.

In post 519, Kitsune Mask wrote:I'm going to go to the veterinarian to find out if I'm a girl fox or a boy fox. Kim will you go with me? I'm nervous.

sounds good Kitsune, i'll go with you!

i'm actually liking Kay better from these recent posts and i liked her explanations for her townreads on the both of us

but i still think the relaxed way she's treating her identity is scummy, but that does rely on my identity guess being right

hey Kay maybe i should signal i know who you are without telling everyone else like i did for Kitsune. i'll have to think of something

In post 522, Kitsune Mask wrote:Kirk - either doesn't sleep or doesn't have another account

i'm going to check this sleep timestamp thing

if someone sleeps 8 hours a day they can post with one account in the morning and the other in the evening and still have the posts be like 12 to 16 hours apart so let's see how good these timestamp differences are

but maybe Kirk is one of those weird meditators that has like 25 15 minute sleep segments throughout 24 hours and never sleeps for longer than that

the Kirk has insomnia case:

258 258 and 260 are 4 hours after anyone else posted and 5 hours before anyone else posted

323 324 and are 4 hours after anyone else posted and 2 hours before anyone else posted

488 is also far after the most recent post and excluding Kitsune's votes, it's long before anyone else posts - funny thing about this post however is that it feels kinda forced, maybe Kirk is playing up posting at this time due to what Karma said earlier

i can see a trend emerging where all of these instances have posts from around the same time where i'm guessing most of us are asleep, so Karma does actually have a point. but to look deeper into it, you need to cross examine with specific accounts and see if they're both posting throughout a 24 hour period, and then you can actually rule partners out. this probably means we can rule Kirk out with specific people but it doesn't make him not scum since the two accounts can still post 12 to 16 hours apart quite easily like i mentioned before.

i mean i don't know if that was really useful. if someone wants to cross examine and see just how many people can be ruled out as Kirk's partners, go for it, but i'm still happy with my vote on Kirk

also i just looked through Komainu's and Kirk's time history and they actually post at different enough times and together, they post at essentially all times of the day such that it's unlikely they're partnered, this all based on just iso-ing them and comparing time frames. someone-not-me could probably spreadsheet this and it would be amazing. feels kinda dirty though

In post 532, Kay Mask wrote:I guess that's an argument for moving the day along quicker, because it gives scum less time to figure it out.

Nah, It works in our favor. Overtime we are more likely catch similarities, between two scum accounts.

My method was to mark each hour in which user has posted in form of table to determine their day-night cycle.

I admit I might be slightly tunnel visioned at this point, but I think I've been seeing similarities in Karma and Kay - times when they're on, the way they approach the game - Kay is on one day, Karma the next. Kris additionally pointed out they had limited interaction early.

Regardless, I'm not interested in lynching outside of those two.

In post 529, Katrielle Mask wrote:I have to go for a minute.

Katrielle scumslipped

She had to go for a minute.
Subsequently no one except for northsidegal posted for nearly half a day.
Everyone becomes a great alternate identity for Katrielle. Even assuming she is yakuza, it is surprising that nobody posted during that time, if a larger number of individuals exist, it is even more surprising. Remember when you do the math that you know that everyone in the family is not in the yakuza, so the pool is even smaller.
VOTE: Katrielle
Not many hours are left, I am willing to vote Katrielle, Kirk, or Komainu. Don't ask me in what order, I am already stressed.

You're not willing to vote me, even though your vote was just on me?

I don't understand your reasoning in the slightest, but I'm fine with voting Katrielle. And her latest posts don't really help her case (has nothing to do with the fact that she's suspecting me, it looks like she's setting up a vote using shitty associatives).

In post 517, Kitsune Mask wrote:UNVOTE:

Takes a pretty shitty mod to miss naked unvote huh
I agree with the idea of Katrielle and Kay being guaranteed to be different people, that means I feel as though I should take a stance one side or the other. That doesn't mean I find Katrielle way worse than you. But I have to choose.

The votecount has been corrected.

-nsg

In post 544, Kitsune Mask wrote:Takes a pretty shitty mod to miss naked unvote huh

Fair enough

In post 541, Kitsune Mask wrote:

In post 529, Katrielle Mask wrote:I have to go for a minute.

Katrielle scumslipped

She had to go for a minute.
Subsequently no one except for northsidegal posted for nearly half a day.
Everyone becomes a great alternate identity for Katrielle. Even assuming she is yakuza, it is surprising that nobody posted during that time, if a larger number of individuals exist, it is even more surprising. Remember when you do the math that you know that everyone in the family is not in the yakuza, so the pool is even smaller.
VOTE: Katrielle
Not many hours are left, I am willing to vote Katrielle, Kirk, or Komainu. Don't ask me in what order, I am already stressed.

What are you talking about? She said that at the end of a long post, in anticipation of a reply.

Also I'm less than fine with voting Katrielle; I feel that she's town.

In post 541, Kitsune Mask wrote:

In post 529, Katrielle Mask wrote:I have to go for a minute.

Katrielle scumslipped

She had to go for a minute.
Subsequently no one except for northsidegal posted for nearly half a day.
Everyone becomes a great alternate identity for Katrielle. Even assuming she is yakuza, it is surprising that nobody posted during that time, if a larger number of individuals exist, it is even more surprising. Remember when you do the math that you know that everyone in the family is not in the yakuza, so the pool is even smaller.
VOTE: Katrielle
Not many hours are left, I am willing to vote Katrielle, Kirk, or Komainu. Don't ask me in what order, I am already stressed.

What are you on about?

In post 543, Kay Mask wrote:I don't understand your reasoning in the slightest, but I'm fine with voting Katrielle.

Why?

And her latest posts don't really help her case.

How so?

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