In post 5293, ArcAngel9 wrote:Please feel free to eliminate me. I am demonic anyway, one less demonic player in the game which means that scum has to demonize someone else. This way it will be one less demon to their second win condition.
And those who think I am lying about my understanding of the game flavor or setup. I read it twice but still didn't make sense to me. So I won't bother trying to make any sense of it anymore.
Did you read the game though?
I did, Why do you think i am scum? And why did you vote me?
I have no problem taking a hammer vote. I am not afraid. I was simply not here!. I am on V/LA during weekends!!
Town's information gathering roles are myself, LLD, Annie
Of which Annie is the most straightforward for town power, though my role ended up being surprisingly strong, especially with dual protectives (though both gated) in the setup
In post 5293, ArcAngel9 wrote:Please feel free to eliminate me. I am demonic anyway, one less demonic player in the game which means that scum has to demonize someone else. This way it will be one less demon to their second win condition.
And those who think I am lying about my understanding of the game flavor or setup. I read it twice but still didn't make sense to me. So I won't bother trying to make any sense of it anymore.
Did you read the game though?
I did, Why do you think i am scum? And why did you vote me?
I have no problem taking a hammer vote. I am not afraid. I was simply not here!. I am on V/LA during weekends!!
You are not demonstrating that you have read the arguments very well
Maybe I am underestimating language issues but it feels like you are either playing up your misunderstanding or haven't looked into what people are saying very closely
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:16 am
by Medea the Alien
I mean, Penguin posted a number of reasons that we feel this way and it got skipped on over.
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:21 am
by Dunnstral
Your posting was about them getting sharded, not their claimed role, right?
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:27 am
by Medea the Alien
In post 5074, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey, anyone who's around want to explain to me why scum with four shards to give out uninterrupted over two nights decided to give one to Annie N2 instead of N3 when Annie's ability, that they'd said was good enough to be demonized for, could then be used unimpeded N3? As opposed to one shard to Spiffeh each of N2 and N3?
In post 5074, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey, anyone who's around want to explain to me why scum with four shards to give out uninterrupted over two nights decided to give one to Annie N2 instead of N3 when Annie's ability, that they'd said was good enough to be demonized for, could then be used unimpeded N3? As opposed to one shard to Spiffeh each of N2 and N3?
--PA
The lack of freaking the fuck out after I pushed scum-him in Tenet.
The trajectory issues others have pointed out.
The back and forth about second shard after getting the D1 shard. Etc.
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:28 am
by Medea the Alien
Rather, scum-me pushed town-him in tenet.
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:34 am
by Annie Edison
You understand how many times I said I think there’s only one in you and Pooky?
I’ve already explained the second one, and you can ask scum about the third postgame because fucking beats me
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:38 am
by unwnd
Lol self-vote
VOTE: Annie
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:40 am
by Annie Edison
Do you want my to self vote again? It seems to make you unvote pretty much anyone.
What is wrong with what i said? I really don't have scum meta at all because I haven't played as many scum games as i played for town, and honestly I don't have a playstyle as a scum. I don't play with strategy or definitive behavior. However, a lot of people from MS resonate with my town meta much and can't put a finger on how I play as scum because I myself don't know it,
What's wrong is that you came in and interacted with ONE post. And that post is about you. And there have been a bunch of other posts that have mentioned you which you ignored. There are enough people scumreading you that you could likely be today's elimination in an ordinary game without the alternate scum wincon.
BUT
We've spent the majority of Day 4 talking about doing something different from a normal elimination.
Do you understand my role? Do you understand the suggestions for how to use my role? Do you think it's a good idea? A bad idea? Something else?
And it is evident that scum fabricated some bull shit tale about me being corrupted and luring town to vote and it is working. You pulled some of my old games and said - "Hey look angel is shown similar behavior when she was scum, hence she will be scum here too.. " That's too desperate to call someone scum and it isn't meta. Meta doesn't require you to compare and fish for my old games. Meta is known and felt. Hence you're wrong or either scum and working to pull this bull shit on me.
At this point time, I really don't have the energy to fight for this town anymore. I really don't care much!
I don't remember anyone talking about you being corrupted and luring town to vote? Who posted that? Can you give me a post number?
The old games I pulled showed that there are SOME similarities to how you play as scum here, and SOME differences. It's not a slam dunk. Several of us have played with town-you many times. And if not, if they want to read some of your town games, they basically pick any completed 2021 game and it's a town game.
Please feel free to eliminate me. I am demonic anyway, one less demonic player in the game which means that scum has to demonize someone else. This way it will be one less demon to their second win condition.
This shows that either you don't understand the setup or you're pretending not to understand. Scum don't have to demonize someone else. You count as a demon for scum's win condition whether you're alive or not. All demons do. The only thing that can prevent a demon from counting toward the demon count is for their shards to be removed. And Here There Be Dragons claims to be a shard-remover once he is made a demon. And manateegirl is a backup shard remover who is already a demon.
And those who think I am lying about my understanding of the game flavor or setup. I read it twice but still didn't make sense to me. So I won't bother trying to make any sense of it anymore.
I'm willing to talk you through it. Other players are willing to talk you through it, too, I'm sure.
I fought enough for this town. When I fully claimed I was coming out as honest as could be but it was twisted by scum and accused me for a fake name from google search. It is what it is, it as much as town responsibility also to believe a person. If this town is so bad it perhaps deserves to lose.
I don't feel like you've done much fighting for town. You haven't put down any analysis of the game state, engaged with any of the discussion about how to prevent scum from making demons. You posted one reads list full of one-liners, and have changed some of those reads based solely on players suspecting you. You do that as town. But you ALSO do MORE than that as town. And that's what's bothering me about you.
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:43 am
by Lukewarm
In post 5315, Snarky Fishes wrote:I don't remember anyone talking about you being corrupted and luring town to vote? Who posted that? Can you give me a post number?
In post 5074, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey, anyone who's around want to explain to me why scum with four shards to give out uninterrupted over two nights decided to give one to Annie N2 instead of N3 when Annie's ability, that they'd said was good enough to be demonized for, could then be used unimpeded N3? As opposed to one shard to Spiffeh each of N2 and N3?
--PA
The lack of freaking the fuck out after I pushed scum-him in Tenet.
The trajectory issues others have pointed out.
The back and forth about second shard after getting the D1 shard. Etc.
A consensus of town gave him the shard day 1, and then decided NO MORE FUCKING SHARD VOTES after seeing how fast the we moved from Low to Med. I would probably have tried for it day 1with a shiny cop investigation, and then regretted my life choices on Day 2. I don't think that particular argument holds a lot of water.
All being demonized does to us is make our elim-kill targetable and that was enough for me to think things through before deciding it wasn't worth it...which was done and dusted before Day 1 started.
I trusted that 1) we're unlikely to become a consensus scum read in this crowd (I still do) and 2) that if we did, or we decided to die for some reason we'd be able to do some good with supersaint a la Andrius, even if not as spectacular as could have happened in Xenogears. Though the way Xenogears played out was spectacularly funny in its own right.
Your other points hold some water
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:07 am
by Medea the Alien
My other point is that spiffeh is a TERRIBLE target choice. Like, I get that in a town him world it's his PR and his choice how to use it, but seriously, ouch.
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:12 am
by Annie Edison
Okay, so looking back at yesterday (two days ago?), my main focus is how Pooky ended up the main elim. I feel like with that role it encourages heavy bussing, so I’d expect to find both buddies on the wagon. I need to look at day one too but I am limited on time so will most likely just be analyzing some VCs. This gets a bit tricky because lolnonightkills though.
Spoiler: Day 1 VCA glanceover
225 The 4 person Medea wagon. I originally viewed this as all town but it turns out i have the dumb. I think Medea mentioned at some point scum being excited for the opportunity to miselim them? I’m wondering if that means there’s two here. It kinda lines up with how my PoE is pointing towards Dragons anyways.
950 Manatee wagon pops up, Medea wagon is now just Pooky and Dragons. Definitely looks a bit strange from a VCA standpoint for scum to be sitting on a wagon together, though. Manatee wagon pops up. I’m townreading the rest of the wagon.
1100 AA9 pops up as a counterwagon to manatee, votes are very split across the board here.
1400 What sticks out about this VC to me is the Spiffeh wagon. I’m pretty strongly townreading both of these players.
1625 Dragon’s first off-Medea vote. They definitely feel weird with the other constituents of this wagon.
1950 Medea pops back up as a counterwagon to Spiffeh. Same group from before besides Dragons, on the opposite side.
I’ve definitely noticed a lot of vanity votes on Pooky on the backend of day 1.
2541 New wagon on Medea. I think it’s fairly likely one scum is on this bc lolgamblersfallacy.
2808 I didn’t realize how fast this wagon took off. I still think fishes is town, and besides the occasional paranoia feel similarly about unwnd. I don’t think luke’s case here comes from scum, and that’s adding up to CephTD or Manatee being the other.
One of the main conclusions I want to draw from this is I don’t think pooky plays that over the top out of the gate to chase after Medea if they are aligned together, I think that’s pretty troll. I think it’s more likely scum tried to leverage the group paranoia. That in turn most likely means Dunn is town as well. (but notsci you were just being dumb and paranoid yesterday) youre a towel
Pooky’s hammer after his yo-yo read on Titus also stands out after his flip. It kinda makes sense in retrospect, frankly.
I think two scum on the wagon is a fairly good bet. Definitely not just Pooky. I could maybe see a third and then feel even more guilty but I dont really want to think about that right now.
Then we come to day 2. This is going to be a bit more in depth pbpa and I’ll try to put spark notes for individual players at the end.
pings me a bit in retrospect. Both Pooky’s flip and my PoE narrowing, even with the follow up in 2823 it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I dont know if I disagree with the 2 on conclusion, but its an interesting narrative to paint like 7 posts into the day.
I don’t hate this post as I had an issue with manatee’s vote too. Her response isnt the best particularly considering she should have said something when she made the vote.
I’m trying to decide how I feel about this now. I know Medea shifted the spotlight onto Ceph, but its weird how unwnd came out of the gates on pooky and has been shopping around. Although I suppose I have been having meh feels about spiffeh today.
Trying to point the attention back at Pooky when CephTD reaches its highest point. I don’t know if it makes sense for scum-spiffy to try and derail this? Especially after Pooky’s flip, I feel like they would want to go for the easy miselim here if scum. Is Pooky/Spiffeh/CephTD crazy?
feels weird after Spiffy just asked why hes on the wagon of his not strongest scumread when they are competing and then he proceeds to vote the wagon of his second strongest read? Idk
Doesnt want to elim pooky anymore, goes back to what he says about thinking CephTD is the wagon for the day. Its a weird on/off waffle from them about Pooky today.
Puts pooky to E-1, they have a little interaction afterwards that feels kinda meh upon reread. I feel like we already covered Pooky was trolling with the SS claim?
Thoughts from Day 2:
Pooky was a frontrunner wagon out of the gate, that makes me think it was a planned bus. Day 2 is a good day for them, doesn’t put scum super far behind but also gives them the chance at towncred. When I look at the wagon on CephTD, it was a very fast wagon, and I do see Fishes/Medea’s points about it being very fast. We already know there was scum on CephTD’s wagon.
Then, the wagon ends up pushed back onto Pooky. Some big names who were pushing it were Fishes, Manatee, and Spiffeh. Honorable mention goes to CephTD, who I kinda got survivalism/annoyed vibes about it because they were going to die over Pooky. I’m not sure how to read that AtE, frankly, and can see it go either way. Going back to the first 3, I still have my townread on Fishes currently sitting in the bank. Spiffeh is a VERY big concern given his active role in pushing Pooky all day, and he was one of the people who helped derail the CephTD wagon. I have weird paranoia sparks about unwnd throughout the day, particularly the interaction with Pooky after the hammer.
Right now, my reads look something like-
Town-
Fishes- read my ISO
AA9- meta
Medea- I said before I think one scum between them/pooks/fishes, plus Dunn’s clear means they would be aligned with Dunn, and I don’t think a scumteam of those three would have Medea and Dunn both sit off wagon at 3874 unless its some fucking galaxy brain shit and if it is then whatever Im tired of getting yelled at for being paranoid
Dunn- I think dunn shares an alignment with medea
Leantown-
Rhea- I felt like her frustration was town. Ive been townreading her most of the game.
Lukewarm- Titus case, he didnt have to hop in the middle of me/ffery when that whole shard confusion was going on as scum.
Null-
Unwnd- Ive had him as town all game his play yesterday is just pinging the bejeezus out of me. Mostly the hammer interaction with Pooky. I think the one thing that sets him up there and not below is that he was resigned to elimming CephTD whereas Spiffeh was still shoving pooky
Manatee- They just have a bad voting record and I feel like theyve been hiding in the wings of other people’s votes. They literally followed fishes all D2.
Scum-
CephTD- PoE, VCA from Day 1.
Spiffeh- PoE, he was one of the main reasons we eliminated a beloved princess yesterday, and weird interactions with the bear.
My long night wall.
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:13 am
by Annie Edison
Like fuck outta here with it was a bad target nonsense his day two looks rough as fuck
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:34 am
by Snarky Fishes
In post 5318, Medea the Alien wrote:My other point is that spiffeh is a TERRIBLE target choice. Like, I get that in a town him world it's his PR and his choice how to use it, but seriously, ouch.
I was coming into day 4 with scumreads on Spiffeh, unwnd, and maaaaybe AA9. Bell was stressing the fuck out about Spiffeh.
The choice wasn't terrible from my POV, though solo-me would probably have checked unwnd if I had a cop investigation at that point.
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:36 am
by ManateeGal
kind of really frustrated my D2 is being boiled down to following fishes
Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:37 am
by Snarky Fishes
In post 5319, Annie Edison wrote:1400 What sticks out about this VC to me is the Spiffeh wagon. I’m pretty strongly townreading both of these players.
PoE, he was one of the main reasons we eliminated a beloved princess yesterday, and weird interactions with the bear.