Mafiascum.net

re-reading wave questioning about why hopkirk was killed could be potentially coming from scum

first one to point it out are usually the one's who want it to be discussed (and I think the way he framed it was dodgy)

skygazer made a great point about wifom and I agree

In post 5247, wavemode wrote:i just found it odd to see PP dead, ostensibly out of fear of a protective, when the scumteam haven't shown much fear of a protective up to this point. makes me want to look for a more direct reason that scum would shy away from shooting Hop

and maybe the choice of PP, is that PP's reads were right?

think wavemode is right on reasoning but wording is dodgy; also gut says that last line is twisting it into his argument (by suggesting)

maybe being paranoid but I want someone else to read over those posts and tell me what they think as well

interested in creature reads right now

In post 5315, Golden Robster wrote:strongest scumread right now is TBG followed by SS and then creature/gamma

m'm working with you until we get sajj and TBG scum lynched. Then I'm winning with you.

TBG gets to wear the sorting hat!

In post 235, ArcAngel9 wrote:

In post 234, WhemeStar wrote:VOTE: Lalendra person

A50 is obv town here

I agree. this one is town too.

Unfortunate but would scum be so chum so early into d1? WIFOM tho.

In post 2072, ArcAngel9 wrote:We should get Texcat today.. they read on me make no sense.


VOTE: Textcate

Arcangel strikes me as kinda towny

In post 2539, TehBrawlGuy wrote:i figured it out though it's ausuka

TBG early is noticing players that are not vanilla town, so he seems engaged.

In post 2664, TehBrawlGuy wrote: He hadn't mentioned Mylo since his vote for him in 1947 - 470 posts earlier. Mylo dropped a vote there when asked for a vote and came up with some weak reasoning, didn't even really try to back it up. So, it looked like he was opportunistically throwing a vote on someone who had literally just said they wouldn't be around to defend themselves and using OMGUS and vague "I don't see any reason for them to be town so they must be scum" as an excuse.

this is perhaps a bit blunt, but is mylo a weak scum player? i actually view this as a towntell if he's not b/c I think Scum are generally a little bit more worried about appearance. this seems much more town-realizing-he's-not-voting with a dash of lazy[/quote]

I like TBG's assessment of Mylo.

In post 2666, TehBrawlGuy wrote:fuck all y'all for not assisting me in getting up to speed btw

anyway, I agree with whoever said masons + fulltown neighborhood is unlikely, so I'm pretty OK lynching in that pool. FL's partner needs to claim.

Out of neighborhood + FL, who should I read up on? Can someone give me a breakdown of everything that's happened related to the hood/its players?

This is dumb and bad strategy and nukes my earlier townlean on the slot. That being said, my main question is--would scum be that greedy? Especially this early in the game? I know, wifom.

In post 2690, TehBrawlGuy wrote:alright so I did some ISOs

android: obvtown (how was he almost lynched?)
wave: scum
mylo: town
FL: lean town


I don't need FL's partner to claim, I'm sure enough in Wave lynch. Neighbor-meta aside, 99% of wave's contributions have been calling other players Town. Having lots of townreads and very few scumreads is a wonderful way to coast without taking heat or giving off associatives as Scum, and his tone also feels off.

VOTE: wave

plan to iso KK soon(tm) but I'm really happy with a wave lynch both mechanically and reads wise, so it's not a high priority for me.

TBG backs off mason claim necessity, which suggests maybe his earlier insistence was ruffles from settling into a game he hadn't got caught up on yet. Pressure on wave seems intuitive given the gamestate at this time.

In post 2896, TehBrawlGuy wrote:standard timetravelling warning

In post 2723, Flavor Leaf wrote:There is zero chance there isn’t at least 2 scum in
PoV
JJD, Golden Rob, PP, Lalendra, Wave, Wheme, and I will power lynch my way through after the mason claim comes through.

Hint, I will not be going after JJD or Wave.

You're a mason, Wave's on your wagon which you want to lynch from, and Wave's the only non-conf town Neighbor left... and you won't vote him? How is he not obvscum from your PoV?

This is some more shitty reasoning but it could just be that he has no idea how to deal with an unproven claimed mason.

In post 3060, TehBrawlGuy wrote:Slight town lean on PP himself, but Rampage is town and so I really dislike the wagon.
A18 is still obvtown

Wheme I'm pretty null on, but of the three leading wagons, it's the only one I think is tolerable, so I'm ok shifting to it if we go that way. Who outside of the 3 leading wagons could we go to? Obv. Wave is my preference, but I don't think that's going to gain legs.

This seems like town that has replaced in and isn't really settled in his reads willing to compromise. TBG could have pretty easily stayed off the wagon considering he was still playing catch up at this point.

In post 3117, TehBrawlGuy wrote:busy irl so can't reply fully, but UNVOTE: wheme[\unvote].

still want lynch, just bad policy to run to l-1 preclaim

What, no one ever hammers at an unexpected time while someone is at L-1! It's unthinkable!

This looks shitty in retrospect but seems pretty reasonable for a conservative town player going by the book.

In post 3184, TehBrawlGuy wrote:just intent so he claims instead of playing around

Seems towny.

In post 3196, TehBrawlGuy wrote:UNVOTE: wheme

This vote's coming back tonight but I'll give you a few hours time.

Looks shitty in retrospect but I almost want to say scum would not unvote their buddy twice while waiting for a claim. Wheme was far up the wagon and it would make more sense to assume there's a good chance he goes down. It looks shitty but strikes me as having more town-motivation than being indicative of what tchill calls "stalling." This isn't really stalling, this is not letting a happen before a claim is out. From TBG's perspective as town, if he has put an un-claimed TPR at L-1 and scum hammers before claim/results, he is fucked.

In post 3233, TehBrawlGuy wrote:VOTE: wheme

Some more explanation here would have been dope. I mean he was lynching through a doctor claim and nothing?

In post 3250, WhemeStar wrote:Holy some1 has a brain

This reads like wheme trying to make TBG look shitty after his flip.

In post 3475, TehBrawlGuy wrote:Can either of you explain why texcat? I don't recall her being a floated lynch before, and I haven't thought anything of her up to this point.

TBG did not read ArcAngel, his predecessor... I don't know what kind of tell that is but it's surprising. Actually this might be the scummiest thing TBG has said all game, in not even being aware of who his predecessor voted.

In post 3540, TehBrawlGuy wrote:

In post 3533, Tchill13 wrote:no i understand and would be more willing to give you the benefit of the doubt if you were not a huge suspect.

Like i said im worried scum would try to use the context of the situation to achieve a mislynch on jarjar.

why would creature or lalendra be less likely to bus than jarjar? That does take skill and effort, what jarjar did, as either alignment.

i shouldn't be though - I endorsed Wheme lynch over the other two wagons, and unvoted for purely policy reasons while plainly stating I still wanted Wheme dead. I was also probably the most mentioned candidate for a potential CFD off of Wheme.

you're coming at JJD from the opposite angle I am. I'm not looking at who was most or least likely to bus Wheme, coming at it from ???->Wheme. I'm saying that if you look at Wheme's own behavior foremost, looking for Wheme->??? the biggest associative is that Wheme was weakly bussing JJD. Going the other way from JJD->Wheme, it checks out that they'd be a scumpair, but I really care about the link from Wheme->JJD. There isn't any Wheme->Creature or Wheme->Lala link, unless you count Wheme's really early vote on Lala.

I don't fully understand why TBG prioritizes busses over off-the-wagon and I don't get why he wants to ignore texcat when his predecessor thought the slot was scummy.

In post 3551, TehBrawlGuy wrote:huh, idk why i didn't remember there being a wheme->creature link when there's such a large one. I guess it's because I was focused on the votes so much

yeah, OK, I can get on board with Creature being linked to Wheme

I still like JJD better, but I'm OK with Creature wagon now. I'd be willing to bet at least one of the two is Scum.

I don't really get this.

In post 3790, TehBrawlGuy wrote:anyway, VOTE: texcat

JJD wagon has no legs (sad)
I don't like Mylo/Dunn wagons
Lalawagon is OK at face value, but Wave and JJD both being on it gives me the heeblies

Tex is mildly leanscum, mostly on the wagon because the other wagons are no bueno. feelsbad going to a wagon I'm not super jazzed about, but I did hit Wheme that way, so it could be worse

TBG did you just not read texcat before when you were defending him or wtf?

In post 3968, TehBrawlGuy wrote:

@Krazy

Here's the important information

the last 10-20 pages of D2 are the most cruical, the rest of D1-D2 is skippable

Hopkirk is confrmed masons with the late Flavor Leaf
Ausuka is confirmed IC, and neighbors with Wave, and the late Performer, who was also Vengeful
PP is claimed VT

Regardless of alignment this was a dope post and super helpful.

In post 4064, TehBrawlGuy wrote:that's the man from the "wine in front of me" scene of princess bride, where WIFOM gets its name from

he's saying that scum might do that specifically because it would give them towncred as a thing scum would be unlikely to do

imo, I don't think scum being lynched yesterday actually affects the rest oft the scumteam's willingness to bus very much. When you have a 3 man scumteam, yeah, losing one makes you reluctant to bus and leave it all in the hand of the last scum. When you have 5 or 6, a scummate getting MLed is pretty meh.

TBG and I share the same reasoning on likely busses on day 3.

In post 4163, TehBrawlGuy wrote:if we all swap tex becomes the leading wagon with momentum

CHOO CHOO

This is town.





TBG is

There are some questions:
why and when did your position on texcat change?
why did you not read your previous slot and forgot about his texcat votes?

Here is a premise you have to accept for TBG to be scum:


Is that a likely scenario?

why is it not a likely scenario? (3060 and 3062 are not exactly what I'd call a "hard bus" btw)

you yourself said Gamma was bussing because he saw his partner was going down. why in your mind couldn't TBG have had that same reasoning

Because TBG had an out. He does not get lynched the next day just because he wasn't on the wagon that lynches scum. Gamma was not a recent replace-in and doesn't have as many excuses. Circumstance matters.

TBG put Wheme at L-1 and asked for intent to hammer to generate a claim. It is he does this as scum, but I do not see it as .

that reasoning doesn't really track for me. TBG explicitly wanted to avoid the major wagons and only voted because deadline was looming

and even if i were to agree with you, i don't get why your big central reason for TBG being town is based entirely on WIFOM assumptions of what TBG's typical scum behavior is

What is your sense of TBG's meta? Why do you feel TBG's behavior fits with a scum mentality?

I didn't really say TBG's typical scum behavior... I said scum probably does not bus if they have an easy out and don't have to. Of course that's WIFOM. But he also doesn't play it up very much. It's not like he's looking for a lot of credit in the lynch. He doesn't even seem all that into it. It's a flip on someone that could plausibly be scum and he needs more flips to get a sense of the game as town. How does the way he voted fit scum behavior?

In post 5334, Krazy wrote:What is your sense of TBG's meta?

WHAT IS YOURS? you're the one making the case for him to be town here, i'm just trying to understand it

Krazy wrote:How does the way he voted fit scum behavior?

How does it fit town behavior? again, the one who said this THE PREMISE TO ACCEPT if TBG is scum. but from where i'm standing it's pretty easy to accept. he replaces in, he sees seven votes on his partner, he sees the deadline looming, he goes "welp" and busses. you haven't really explained why this is so unlikely. your only reasoning seems to be, scum don't like to bus...? in a large? with their entire team still alive?

I suppose I'm being disingenuous. I don't actually care if you townread TBG. i care that you townread him and scumread Gamma for THE EXACT SAME THING. and your explanation of why they're different is pretty fkin weak

Krazy you stated that Gamma bussed because he saw his partner going down

Can you respond to the question I asked earlier? That is, why was he defending Wheme while Wheme was at L-2?

In post 5336, wavemode wrote:I suppose I'm being disingenuous. I don't actually care if you townread TBG. i care that you townread him and scumread Gamma for THE EXACT SAME THING. and your explanation of why they're different is pretty fkin weak

TBG had just replaced in and could have easily said "haven't read wheme yet guys, like my vote on wave for now." TBG seems to at least put some thought into his votes but also seems willing to compromise.

Gamma's votes all are a mixture of opportunistic, lazy, or fake. There's no way his slot survives to day 6 without a bus.

TBG has because his slot was basically null and he gains little by a bus.

Gamma has because he plays up the bus and needs the bus to survive.

They are very different cases. My argument is not that people who voted Wheme are bussing. That is impossible and absurd. By definition more than half the people on Wheme's wagon were not bussing because numbers. I'm not voting Gamma because he voted Wheme. I'm voting Gamma because his vote . Gamma reads like a bus, TBG reads like a compromise push for a flip at the end of the day because his wagon had no traction. They are not tonally or thematically similar.

Look at how TBG votes Wheme compared to every other vote TBG does. Basically evaluating, by the book, all makes sense. The manner of the vote is basically the same.

Look at how Gamma votes Wheme compared to every other vote Gamma makes. It is highly emotional and seems to be looking for attention. It seems to suggest the desire to be recognized as having real conviction. It is emotionally at odds with pretty much every other vote, and it is emotionally at odds with every other vote because this time Gamma is bussing someone on his team.

If you would rather vote people off the Wheme wagon altogether, go for it. But don't accuse me of a contradiction here, because TBG and Gamma are way different in how they voted Wheme.

In post 5339, Krazy wrote:TBG has negative inclination because his slot was basically null and he gains little by a bus.

He also loses little. This argument still makes no sense to me. You say this is the premise we must accept for TBG to be scum. But Gamma also gains literally nothing from voting Wheme there, especially not with how late he did so, and after defending Wheme for so long

Krazy wrote:Gamma has

high inclination

because he plays up the bus and needs the bus to survive.

If your argument is that Gamma needed the bus in order to survive, why did he defend Wheme while Wheme was at L-2?

In post 5339, Krazy wrote:My argument is not that people who voted Wheme are bussing.

I never said it was. Your argument is that TBG is very likely town because he had an "out" so he gains nothing by voting Wheme. Meanwhile Gamma also gained nothing from voting Wheme, especially not in the manner that he did and after defending Wheme, but Gamma is scum. Is your argument that Gamma Emerald is just bad at playing scum?

Can you be specific on which posts from Gamma make you think Gamma is town or that you characterize as defending? Are you talking about before Gamma voted Wheme and was like "explain this wagon"?

In post 5202, Golden Robster wrote:

In post 5199, Ankamius wrote:Tell me more about how reiterating my stated stance was bad

it's not reiterating your stance thats bad (even though town cred argument could be made here)

basically I checked your ISO for content about dunn and you list him as potential scum in #4227

then you have him as probably town in d4 (granted it's a new day so new reads so fine)

then you say dunn wagon is scumrich

In post 5203, Golden Robster wrote:and end of day line is offputting to me

you spent the whole day defending dunn and then you feel the need to somehow re-iterate it again

(big fos on TBG and less on ankamius)

ehhhhhh this case is probably town

In post 5205, TehBrawlGuy wrote:

In post 5203, Golden Robster wrote: (big fos on TBG and less on ankamius)

it's more ok for ank to flip flop and act indignant when dunn got lynched

than it is for me to call him town for two weeks, note he's my strongest townread, attempt to start other wagons, and then quote ank's post

how does this logic work?

but this post is really really scummy

In post 5343, Ankamius wrote: but this post is really really

scummy

salty

ftfy

lets get that TBG wagon rolling.

Krazy are you scum

Nope. Why do you disagree on my reasoning on TBG?

Oh I don't disagree, I more think that correction was functionally useless and meant to downplay my reaction.

I mean, if you are conflating saltiness with scuminess then that is going to be fucking up your read. Doesn't seem functionally useless to me.