Magical Girls UPick - Heart of Shadow (Game Over)

[Krazy]

There's nothing you can say to RC in a public space that will make him reconsider an iota of how he plays. All you're doing is providing him with fodder the next time he's scum to come up with excuses why he doesn't want to play or reasons when he's town to mislynch you. In his own mind his play will be flawless. Here he has the out of kats.has he mislynched masons before because he scumread them? Of course, but this time he didn't scumread them so its kats fault he was duped by lld. And as usual since he took every position on every player at some point throughout the game he can always point to the thirty seconds where he was right. It doesn't matter how many correct reads he drowned out or how many players tuned out because of his manipulative ate. There's really no point to this argument, rc is set in his ways and you can either take them or leave them.

[Titus]

No. RC it doesn't. Good luck. Maybe someday you'll get my point. Until then, I hope to draw scum in your games.

[Titus]

There's nothing you can say to RC in a public space that will make him reconsider an iota of how he plays. All you're doing is providing him with fodder the next time he's scum to come up with excuses why he doesn't want to play or reasons when he's town to mislynch you. In his own mind his play will be flawless. Here he has the out of kats.has he mislynched masons before because he scumread them? Of course, but this time he didn't scumread them so its kats fault he was duped by lld. And as usual since he took every position on every player at some point throughout the game he can always point to the thirty seconds where he was right. It doesn't matter how many correct reads he drowned out or how many players tuned out because of his manipulative ate. There's really no point to this argument, rc is set in his ways and you can either take them or leave them.

+1 but I hope he changes.

[RadiantCowbells]

Until then, I hope to draw scum in your games

gl with that

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your actions relate to your ego which makes the game easier for emotionally savvy scum.

I got strongman killed N1 as a role whose only real ability is to keep itself alive. You lived to endgame as a vigilante who only shot town.
You keep alluding to this ~different skillsets~ argument but if anything, I'm better at hunting ~emotionally savvy~ scum than anyone else because I know how to read AtE better than anyone I know of.

And had you just (saying you won’t be that upset was just confusing btw) you listened to your uberwise hydra partner who townlocked us on D1, not directed GP to misvig us. you would have gotten an opportunity to experience my obvtown AtE but you cheated yourself, me and everyone else by practically guaranteeing ending our life in Twilight and yes, you 100% do deserve to be raked through the coals for that and Gameplay, you were wrong to try to play God and assume a following day mislynch on us. RC knew we weren’t getting lynched, which is why he directed you to shoot us.

@Shiro, don’t blame yourself for anything. <3

I could have insisted but I thought Croag would rolestop him. What we should have done is to not having given RC the doubt over paranoia reading us and assume he was gambitting on protecting us from NK. @Krazy you should have known better after what happened with Duck in VG. So, our huge mistake was in not copying T + E N2 and hopefully acquiring their undying ability, then GP’s shot on us would have failed.

Kats was 100% thoroughly pocketed by LLD and he flipped out at Titus repeatedly for trying to push her. However, I still don’t understand why RC, was opposed to LLD explaining her “reasoning” for locktowning Kats but not anticipating janitor was not a good enough reason for Kats to not have exposed the charade.

Titus has made many valid points but obviously not about RC’s read on Dann. I understand why Dann is grateful to RC for correctly reading him but I can’t really blame Sakura for going with her gut, after RC blatantly ignored her townlock on us and got us misvigged. Hydra partners need to work together and trust their partner’s reads. It’s a two way street.

I wish Wisdom had been in this game because he has a much better BoP on me than RC and would have probably unearthed the fake mason crap.

Finally, I really wish people like Krazy, Varsoon etc. (whom I both adore btw) would try to get to know RC personally before they egregiously unfairly demonize him. Anyone who does, would know sooner or later what an awesome person he is. Yes, I’m still extremely angry and hurt at what RC did to me in this game but he in no way deserves to be condemned at a personal level. RC is still one of the best people I’ve met anywhere and while I’m still currently struggling, I’m proud to call him my friend.

[popsofctown]

lol no one was catching me this game.

I love how much agency is removed from me in these discussions.

Katsuki didn't magically come up with mason stuff. I presented it as a gambit and then did it in thread in a way that looked natural to Kats so kats would back me up.

LLD I think you played very well across the whole game, including the gambit.
I don't know who you think is trying to take away agency from you though. Katsuki's play violated numerous default cardinal rules of how it's best to play mafia, yours doesn't, because you're scum, so Katsuki's play is a more interesting discussion.

idk im just glad i wasn't the reason we lost although i'll admit i used my IC card a lot earlier than needed

"the hunt for the reason we lost" is maybe not a healthy way to frame postgame discussion.
Claiming prematurely significantly hurt our faction's chances of winning the game IMO and I wish you hadn't played suboptimally.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Was really hoping that no one noticed that I was a cop.

Scum knew from RCE's role that there was a cop. Then we had town pretty much claim everything. A part of me wished scum bought into SS being a cop and killing them.

Scum's top priority after RCE was lynched was to find the cop.

There's nothing you can say to RC in a public space that will make him reconsider an iota of how he plays. All you're doing is providing him with fodder the next time he's scum to come up with excuses why he doesn't want to play or reasons when he's town to mislynch you. In his own mind his play will be flawless. Here he has the out of kats.has he mislynched masons before because he scumread them? Of course, but this time he didn't scumread them so its kats fault he was duped by lld. And as usual since he took every position on every player at some point throughout the game he can always point to the thirty seconds where he was right. It doesn't matter how many correct reads he drowned out or how many players tuned out because of his manipulative ate. There's really no point to this argument, rc is set in his ways and you can either take them or leave them.

It’s RC’s fault he ignored his partner’s locktown read on us but he’s not to blame for believing the fake mason claim, that one’s all on Kats.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@LLD, just to be clear by blaming Kats for unintentionally scumsiding, in no way means that you 100% don’t deserve this victory.

[Titus]

Finally, I really wish people like Krazy, Varsoon etc. (whom I both adore btw) would try to get to know RC personally before they egregiously unfairly demonize him. Anyone who does, would know sooner or later what an awesome person he is. Yes, I’m still extremely angry and hurt at what RC did to me in this game but he in no way deserves to be condemned at a personal level. RC is still one of the best people I’ve met anywhere and while I’m still currently struggling, I’m proud to call him my friend.

I don't think it's fair to say Krazy is demonizing RC. RC isn't being condemned publicly on a personal level.

[Shadoweh]

There's a tendency when wonky things happen to focus on the person to blame rather then the person who managed to pull off the gambit. You can't underestimate persuasive power in making people do what they shouldn't in these games! Coming up with a realistic secret comftown role gambit and convincing Katsuki to go along with it was not in the realm of what i thought possible. "lambda why are people calling you a mason wtf is going on??"

[Bitmap]

idk im just glad i wasn't the reason we lost although i'll admit i used my IC card a lot earlier than needed

"the hunt for the reason we lost" is maybe not a healthy way to frame postgame discussion.
Claiming prematurely significantly hurt our faction's chances of winning the game IMO and I wish you hadn't played suboptimally.

There was probably going to be a wagon on me D1 regardless so I think no matter what I had to claim it at some point.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Finally, I really wish people like Krazy, Varsoon etc. (whom I both adore btw) would try to get to know RC personally before they egregiously unfairly demonize him. Anyone who does, would know sooner or later what an awesome person he is. Yes, I’m still extremely angry and hurt at what RC did to me in this game but he in no way deserves to be condemned at a personal level. RC is still one of the best people I’ve met anywhere and while I’m still currently struggling, I’m proud to call him my friend.

I don't think it's fair to say Krazy is demonizing RC. RC isn't being condemned publicly on a personal level.

Damn! MS actually ate my post. :/. I think it’s fair to say he’s not actually a “fan”?

So, it’s definitely possible I read more into that then was there, so sorry @Krazy if I made incorrect assumptions about what you meant by “revolting”. RC was very wrong to call you “scum irl ,(you totally did not deserve that and) besides that’s RAS’ jam.

However, I have heard some people who have been rightly or wrongly burned by RC in a game, echo that sentiment. None of which, have ever had a single personal convo with RC about anything other than mafia.

[Titus]

@Nancy, I have. I think RC is a great person. His need to validation and being correct gets in the way of him being a better mafia player. Eventually, it will hinder him IRL too.

Revolting is used in a group project sense, when one person is railroading and in charge.

RC gets real defensive when his ego is involved. You and I know this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

idk im just glad i wasn't the reason we lost although i'll admit i used my IC card a lot earlier than needed

"the hunt for the reason we lost" is maybe not a healthy way to frame postgame discussion.
Claiming prematurely significantly hurt our faction's chances of winning the game IMO and I wish you hadn't played suboptimally.

There was probably going to be a wagon on me D1 regardless so I think no matter what I had to claim it at some point.

Speaking of:

@GIF can you please explain the mystery of why GP had to kill Gamma to get CW vigged?

. This is literally eating me alive not knowing why.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, I have. I think RC is a great person. His need to validation and being correct gets in the way of him being a better mafia player. Eventually, it will hinder him IRL too.

Revolting is used in a group project sense, when one person is railroading and in charge.

RC gets real defensive when his ego is involved. You and I know this.

It does frustrate me extremely that he still isn’t giving Sakura’s and others’ correct read on us the respect they deserve and is still clinging to the idiocy that we were somehow “less town” than everyone other than LLD.

But let’s be fair, “revolting” is kind of over the top here. I can come up with true examples of revolting play, if you’re interested, none of which involves anyone on this playerlist.

[Titus]

@Nancy, I have. I think RC is a great person. His need to validation and being correct gets in the way of him being a better mafia player. Eventually, it will hinder him IRL too.

Revolting is used in a group project sense, when one person is railroading and in charge.

RC gets real defensive when his ego is involved. You and I know this.

It does frustrate me extremely that he still isn’t giving Sakura’s and others’ correct read on us the respect they deserve and is still clinging to the idiocy that we were somehow “less town” than everyone other than LLD.

But let’s be fair, “revolting” is kind of over the top here. I can come up with true examples of revolting play, if you’re interested, none of which involves anyone on this playerlist.

Wrong meaning of revolting.

I'm using revolt in the overthrow a dictator sense, not the synonym of bad.

[popsofctown]

idk im just glad i wasn't the reason we lost although i'll admit i used my IC card a lot earlier than needed

"the hunt for the reason we lost" is maybe not a healthy way to frame postgame discussion.
Claiming prematurely significantly hurt our faction's chances of winning the game IMO and I wish you hadn't played suboptimally.

There was probably going to be a wagon on me D1 regardless so I think no matter what I had to claim it at some point.

No. Mafia is incredibly unpredictable. You can't be sure of that.
Even if you were 100% sure of that, it's STILL anti-town to claim before L-1, because if scum are forced to argue in bad faith to get you up to L-2 and L-1, that gives you more ability to catch scum. That's just free value you're throwing away because it's a little stressful to be on the defensive.

However, I have heard some people who have been rightly or wrongly burned by RC in a game, echo that sentiment. None of which, have ever had a single personal convo with RC about anything other than mafia.

Why does having a personal relationship with RC have any relevance? I could ad hom the argument the other direction and say you don't understand Krazy's arguments because you're biased from liking RC outside of mafia; that's just as weightless as ad homming that Krazy's arguments are wrong until he's met RC outside of mafia.

I am biased about not wanting to praise LLD's scum gambit more because that puts her at better than me in both Borderlands and fake masonries, tho.

[Krazy]

Nancy you're confused on what's going on in that post but the site is loading too choppily for me to bother explaining properly, talk to me on discord if you want

[Nancy Drew 39]

*sigh*. My words are being misconstrued. And @Titus, you haven’t heard the examples yet. @Pops, I also like Krazy and Varsoon and have also had personal convos with them.

My point was not to accuse Krazy of trashing RC but I can see how that got completely misinterpreted, so once again sorry Krazy.

However, I have had and seen people on this site do what I said, so that part of it, is 100% accurate.

[Dannflor]

I really don't think that's fair

It's not his fault alone. RC wouldn't be as demoralizing to play with if people didn't randomly just give into him for no reason or defend him at the drop of a hat. RC being a prick is totally predictable but having people come in and apologize for him makes it really easy to just tune out the game and stop caring. Like even now you're defending RC and why? Just to drag out an argument that's not going to convince anyone?

Like the first thing you did in this game was convince me that not only would RC be a pain but that people would take his side with the least amount of pushback for no reason. Maybe play a bit less politically dann, we get enough of that from rc himself. Gameplay made good shots and it's not him specifically, but the mass of people that will just be like "ok ill drop my correct townread and misvig because rc is threatening to throw a tantrum" that makes it totally pointless to join queues with him. When the people who push back on his reads when they're shitty are constantly dogpiled way before his alignment is obvious, it makes you feel like it's okay to just write games off as a loss because people want to play popularity contest and "sheep the rc". RC is a problem, but "the problem with RC" is not just RC even though he definitely does a lot to cultivate the cult of personality that feeds into his ego pushes

I'm just saying it's not fair to blame RC for not being able to figure out that LLD was not in fact a mason. I don't think that's a ridiculous assertion to make? Nor do I think that defense is out of place. It's not my place to intervene in any individual problems people might have with RC's play or in the way he conducts himself, I don't care and that's not my business. If people want to argue about that, that's fine. I'm not here to white knight RC.

But I do think it's completely ridiculous to say, "if it weren't for RC we might've seen past the fake mason claim!" It's a criticism not made in good faith. I'm sure people have very legitimate issues with RC, but it's silly to conflate them with shit like that. That's all I wanted to say, and really the only part of this I want to get involved in.

I'm curious which part of my play this game you thought was political? I pushed you initially and took Tana's side because I scum read you and town read her. My attempts to quell the fight later on were in the interests of getting the town to work together. I'm sorry if I was unfair to you in trying to do that. I definitely could've handled that mediation better. But overall, I don't think I played substantially differently than I would have regardless of the nameplates in this game.

[Dannflor]

"the hunt for the reason we lost" is maybe not a healthy way to frame postgame discussion.

also I agree with this

it's usually a toxic approach to looking at a game

[Oversoul]

Yay!! I won for doing nothing except fanning the masons flame!

Fun flavor and mechanic GIF

[Titus]

Your comment on masons and roleblocker helped.

[Katsuki]

Sorry guys. People are free to act as if I'm the one who decided to come into the game to fakeclaim masons out of the blue.

There were supposed to be numerous failsafes on my choosing to back LLD's gambit, given that this game was a full role PM flip. I went along with a player whom I was townreading since it appeared there would be minimal risks this game.

However, who could have imagined that LLD would have a role that 1. Janitored my flip and 2. Bypassed my passive at the same time. It was meant to be set up so that in the event should LLD be scum and ever shot me she would be confirmed scum.

It's not as if I came into this game going like "Hey, I'll fakeclaim masons!", and obviously would not have in a no role PM flip game. I saw two people whom I respected fighting all game and at times getting kinda personal so I wanted to diffuse that.

@Giffy: I'm fine with the neighbourhood QT being released.

@Wisdom: My misplay this game does not change you sucking in every game we played together where I had to drag your scummy body to a town victory.

[Katsuki]

RC, you can either get defensive and keep making the same mistakes or you can get real and learn to support all skillsets. I am trying to prevent you from going down my road.

Wisdom miss you. I'm trying to grow here as a player. Would love to see you around.

I don't agree that my mistakes were mistakes though. I've learned to ignore Katsuki's cop results, does that help?

My cop guilties are rarely wrong though.