Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[fireisredsir]

And they're all dead aren't they?

(Sass without checking)

yeet was one, and yes, he is dead. im sure it was bc of vp and has nothing to do with his role. dragons was at the time. galron was. april was louder than she is today and convinced people off him.

[fireisredsir]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

acting like im sheeping nero when we both know i have more reasons than nero does is kinda :///

but i will reassess things ofc

[MathBlade]

Where is boon?

[Titus]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

Can you do a reasonless or wall readslist? I think the ship has sailed on saving you.

[Frogsterking]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

Can you do a reasonless or wall readslist? I think the ship has sailed on saving you.

I want you to answer 5425

[Titus]

Driving give me 30 mins

[VP Baltar]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

acting like im sheeping nero when we both know i have more reasons than nero does is kinda :///

but i will reassess things ofc

You do have more reasons, but few of them are meaningful beyond strange paranoia and gut. You're lending legitimacy to Nero's marketing campaign, so it definitely is sheeping.

And I'm gonna need more from you than reassessment. This game needs strong town leaders and Titus is going to be about it after I'm dead. You have potential, but you need to think more critically. There is no way you should be limming me over Nero today if you want to solve thus 1v1. So if that is going to be the level of play, I need you to step it up.

[MathBlade]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

acting like im sheeping nero when we both know i have more reasons than nero does is kinda :///

but i will reassess things ofc

You do have more reasons, but few of them are meaningful beyond strange paranoia and gut. You're lending legitimacy to Nero's marketing campaign, so it definitely is sheeping.

And I'm gonna need more from you than reassessment. This game needs strong town leaders and Titus is going to be about it after I'm dead. You have potential, but you need to think more critically. There is no way you should be limming me over Nero today if you want to solve thus 1v1. So if that is going to be the level of play, I need you to step it up.

Uhm definitionally doesn’t solving one solve the other in a 1v1?

[Frogsterking]

Driving give me 30 mins

I'll give you an hour so you have time to think about it. That's when my pizza gets here so that will be my reminder to check.

[VP Baltar]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

acting like im sheeping nero when we both know i have more reasons than nero does is kinda :///

but i will reassess things ofc

You do have more reasons, but few of them are meaningful beyond strange paranoia and gut. You're lending legitimacy to Nero's marketing campaign, so it definitely is sheeping.

And I'm gonna need more from you than reassessment. This game needs strong town leaders and Titus is going to be about it after I'm dead. You have potential, but you need to think more critically. There is no way you should be limming me over Nero today if you want to solve thus 1v1. So if that is going to be the level of play, I need you to step it up.

Uhm definitionally doesn’t solving one solve the other in a 1v1?

I'm a much higher value asset to town. If you're going to take a chance by repeating this bad wagon AGAIN today, which is very much what you're doing, you risk less by limming Nero first. When you're wrong and I flip green, you've burned someone who actually has the ability to see through the nonsense happening, and would have essentially been confirmed town with a Nero scum flip. I'm very confident my theory about D2 is close, if not correct.

[VP Baltar]

Frogster, I think you missed this question.

VP I thought Galron had a good chance of going through EoD yesterday up until the hammer, I think I took Yeet's softs less seriously than other townies (I didn't take Yeet's softs seriously at all.)

No, I thought Galron was town not scum at the time I unvoted them D2. I think Galron has a tendency to be limbait in general, in this case I'd say VP is the main player trying to make use of it on D2.

This makes no sense. You are stating:

1) yeet was lying about an innocent on galron, or so you perceived until today.

2) galron was town.

These facts are in direct conflict with each other. Why would yeet fake a clear on galron, if galron was town about to be eliminated?

[fireisredsir]

I'm a much higher value asset to town. If you're going to take a chance by repeating this bad wagon AGAIN today, which is very much what you're doing, you risk less by limming Nero first. When you're wrong and I flip green, you've burned someone who actually has the ability to see through the nonsense happening, and would have essentially been confirmed town with a Nero scum flip. I'm very confident my theory about D2 is close, if not correct.

im pretty confident it's not. so if that's what you have to offer then i don't think you're that high value of an asset to town. i wasn't really planning to vote you today at first but i think that case was pretty off and i expect better from you if you're town

[Titus]

Based solely on those two vcs, my play reads suggest Scorpious and Frogstar planting seeds the town ran with.

Scum didn't even bother with even faking a counterwagon until April shouted the wagon down. The lack of a counterwagon usually means either boned scum, bussing scum or scum that don't give a damn. Let's discuss each in turn.

VP being boned scum at that point doesn't match with what happened unless April is agency captured town. Scum don't stick their neck on the line for a partner like that. If VP was boned scum, expect at least 1 scum on the wagon and multiple if possible. The votes should be in soon after VP was exposed. I don't believe this theory, so I can't find that moment but I include it for the sake of completion.

VP being bussed is unlikely because of the gamestate. Bussing scum generally do so early.

VP town can create apathy and a lack of desire to create counterwagons. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Anything else needs a specific question.

[MathBlade]

Based solely on those two vcs, my play reads suggest Scorpious and Frogstar planting seeds the town ran with.

Scum didn't even bother with even faking a counterwagon until April shouted the wagon down. The lack of a counterwagon usually means either boned scum, bussing scum or scum that don't give a damn. Let's discuss each in turn.

VP being boned scum at that point doesn't match with what happened unless April is agency captured town. Scum don't stick their neck on the line for a partner like that. If VP was boned scum, expect at least 1 scum on the wagon and multiple if possible. The votes should be in soon after VP was exposed. I don't believe this theory, so I can't find that moment but I include it for the sake of completion.

VP being bussed is unlikely because of the gamestate. Bussing scum generally do so early.

VP town can create apathy and a lack of desire to create counterwagons. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Anything else needs a specific question.

What about the case of an authentic wagon and April running counter for scum? You just said that doesn’t happen but it’s been my theory.

VP isn’t even bothering with who is scum with Nero or anything to work with.

It’s more like “I am a better asset” which to me is false. I am cooperating with Nero and so to me if that’s the standard I elim VP over Nero

[MathBlade]

To use your phrase “Could April be ‘agency captured’ or scum?”

It seems like they’re both scum and April is less important than VP so April tried to die

[Titus]

What about the case of an authentic wagon and April running counter for scum? You just said that doesn’t happen but it’s been my theory.

Too risky. The strength of VP's wagon puts it in more boned scum scenario if VP is scum. Remember, we have a vigilante who could possibly shoot VP. Enchant played it close to the vest. If Enchant had shot VP, April would look incredibly bad and have zero credibility to take their way out of it. The same applies if April fails.

[DeasVail]

Fire, if I flip town, will you stop sheeping Nero and listen to Titus?

acting like im sheeping nero when we both know i have more reasons than nero does is kinda :///

but i will reassess things ofc

You do have more reasons, but few of them are meaningful beyond strange paranoia and gut. You're lending legitimacy to Nero's marketing campaign, so it definitely is sheeping.

And I'm gonna need more from you than reassessment. This game needs strong town leaders and Titus is going to be about it after I'm dead. You have potential, but you need to think more critically. There is no way you should be limming me over Nero today if you want to solve thus 1v1. So if that is going to be the level of play, I need you to step it up.

Uhm definitionally doesn’t solving one solve the other in a 1v1?

I'm a much higher value asset to town. If you're going to take a chance by repeating this bad wagon AGAIN today, which is very much what you're doing, you risk less by limming Nero first. When you're wrong and I flip green, you've burned someone who actually has the ability to see through the nonsense happening, and would have essentially been confirmed town with a Nero scum flip. I'm very confident my theory about D2 is close, if not correct.

Dude if you’re town you really need to check yourself imo. Reading some of your posts in recent pages, you’re just putting people down and not empowering or building up town members which is what good townplay is.

I would like to talk with the VP voters about what their thoughts are on VP’s negging of the town. I like to think that it is from scum, where scum obviously doesn’t care for the demotivating effect on the town. I also could see the scum motivation in going hard on emulating day townie arrogance. But I also want to think about whether scum actually thinks to post things like the lobotomy stuff without first thinking “hmm maybe I shouldn’t post that”, while town in VP’s position would be “looser”.

Thoughts?

[VP Baltar]

VP's PoE to victory:

Town to probably town:

VP Baltar
MathBlade
Galron
fireisredsir
Titus
April Ludgate
Cape90

Scum are almost all here:

Frogsterking
Save The Dragons
Nero Cain
Eyes without a face

Get out of my dreams and into my car (aka, work a little bit to prove you are town if you're in this pool):

DeasVail
Enchant
tenebrousluminary
Scorpious

@titus, I don't think much has changed about this reads list. Bottom pile is the null to scummy folks, and I'd guess there is max 1 scum in there. I probably wouldn't lim in that pile until later if I didn't have to. Either some of those folks will rise to the occassion and start separating themselves as more townie, night actions will help (possibly unlikely unless we have another weak investigative), or y'all kill the scum RB and Enchant really is a vig who can clear out some detritus.

Only other caveat I'd say is if Nero doesn't flip scum somehow after I'm gone, I still think Cape is town and Math is right about galron. Statistically, I think that's unlikely and you should trust the yeet clear until flips say otherwise.

Outside dark horse is April with that weird claim start of day, but probably town who felt like shit after the malcom lim and decided overnight that mercy is the only option. Good luck this game, you're going to need it.

[Titus]

To use your phrase “Could April be ‘agency captured’ or scum?”

It seems like they’re both scum and April is less important than VP so April tried to die

[Titus]

@DV, Heated frustration = passion = lean town

[MathBlade]

To use your phrase “Could April be ‘agency captured’ or scum?”

It seems like they’re both scum and April is less important than VP so April tried to die

There’s no response here

[fireisredsir]

@DV, Heated frustration = passion = lean town

it can also come from maf who think they were caught for the wrong reasons

[Titus]

To use your phrase “Could April be ‘agency captured’ or scum?”

It seems like they’re both scum and April is less important than VP so April tried to die

There’s no response here

It got ate. April being agency captured or scum is a place I would reset if VP is scum.

[Titus]

@DV, Heated frustration = passion = lean town

it can also come from maf who think they were caught for the wrong reasons

Hence the word lean

[VP Baltar]

Dude if you’re town you really need to check yourself imo. Reading some of your posts in recent pages, you’re just putting people down and not empowering or building up town members which is what good townplay is.

I've spent, what, 100+ pages of this game now trying to work with people, only to be met with scum reads based on absolutely nothing substantial? Several of the people who I wanted to play with this game replaced out unfortunately. Math is very hard for me to deal with because of the way he tunnels. Nero is actively trying to do things to annoy me. The people on my wagon are all just answering for each other and reinforcing each others' biases. I spent literally hours over the night phase trying to figure out what was actually going on, only for people to say 'meh, you just scum.' If you think I have no right to be annoyed with that, cool. Trust me when I say I'm biting my tongue a lot if you think this is me being harsh with people.