Mafiascum.net

I could easily see a player like him not really reading the game

It's like you've known me my entire life. But it's more like "not reading the entire thread" instead of "not reading the game". You're stretching it quite a bit.

If people are going to continue to ignore how intensely scummy TSO's replacing out of this game was, I'll very likely vote Milked.

Please, call me Eek, Milked sounds too weird.

But go ahead and vote me:
What was scummy about TSO replacing out? He said he was in 11 ongoing games, which is easily checked, so lying wouldn't make any sense.
I also can't imagine that lolwagon hasn't updated your view on that slot.

Just answer me, why is garmr on your meh pile? Your opinion on the points I brought up about garmr?

Going to bed. Just a few thoughts first:

SG I like better after our interactions today. Good responses and a willingness to be open. I am not ready to call her town, but she is back in the neutral zone

Wake88's play today have been good, leaning town on him. Good questions for the most part, gets the information flowing. I would like some more reads from him though.

I like Herself and TvK even worse than yesterday. Don't like how our interactions have been at all.

KidA is looking worse after today. Don't got alot of posts, and his reasoning isn't good. His replies to Wake88's question are very short and closed off.


Also:

I'm juggling between two games at the moment. I will have time tomorrow to contribute further. Thank you for your patience.

In post 548, ICEninja wrote:[Kid A] was lurking heavily, someone asked where he was, and he replied with one word less than 10 minutes after said statement. Kid A is clearly reading the thread and actively lurking. This is super scummy considering how strong of scum hunters we have this game.

I;m extracting this from the wall, because I agree with it and also think it's a quite valid point.

In post 552, Wake1 wrote:I'm juggling between two games at the moment. I will have time tomorrow to contribute further. Thank you for your patience.

It's okay, I have your word that you'll answer my question. I think I'm starting to imply you're scummy for not doing so yet though. I dunno, it sits wrong with me how much you flipped out on me for not answering an implied question but yet you can't manage to answer a bluntly direct question. I am not a fan.

Posting later tonight or tomorrow night when I have time.

MME is your town read on me based on my play or the reactions of others to my predecessor's play?

In post 551, The Silver Bard wrote:Going to bed. Just a few thoughts first:

SG I like better after our interactions today. Good responses and a willingness to be open. I am not ready to call her town, but she is back in the neutral zone

Wake88's play today have been good, leaning town on him. Good questions for the most part, gets the information flowing. I would like some more reads from him though.

I like Herself and TvK even worse than yesterday. Don't like how our interactions have been at all.

KidA is looking worse after today. Don't got alot of posts, and his reasoning isn't good. His replies to Wake88's question are very short and closed off.


Also:

havingfitz, Garmr, TvK and KidA needs to post their reads ASAP! Include some reasoning please!

Noted So I will give you my reads latter.

Woah this thread really has exploded in the last 24 hours. I'll try and make this as summarized as possible (and likely fail):

1) I really like TvKs answer to my question in Post 449, explains his earlier comment about everyone seeming town.

2) I'm not seeing peoples scum reads on Kid A's read on Street in Post 453, the "want to vote before I forget" "will explain assuming I still like this vote" both read as genuine scumhunitng and while I disagree with his explanation (That's something I state as town, heck something I've stated this game I think and something I've seen them state before so it's not a scum tell in the slightest) in Post 461 I can follow the train of thought.

3A) Don't like TSB's scum reads on Herself, SG and TvK in Post 463, I'm fairly certain the first two are wrong and think the third is too, really the only things I agree with there are his town reads. The reasoning behind the scum read on Herself in Post 503 dreadful, A) The entire "Distancing, interaction scum read" between them and SG is insanely weak and based on SG being scum which I alone think is wrong. B) The idea that "Only scum play the emotion card" is flat out wrong, AtE is actually something that is more player-style based than alignment-based. There are exceptions but generally it's not a solid tell and with Mollie I know for a fact that she's used AtE in the past as town so that's not a scum tell in the slightest. C) The idea of "X has all different reads to me therefore I think X is scum" is wrong, people read posts and situations differently, if anything scum are often the ones mimicking the general consensus reads and not branching out for their own ones but looking at this specific situation I had a town-read on Kid A and SG there as well, really the only read they had that was "weird" was TSO and apparently that was highly meta-based.

3B) The reasoning behind the scum read on SG in Post 513 is even weaker in that A) It again relies on Herself being scum which I don't think is the case B) Constant vote-changing isn't a scum-tell, scum are generally afraid of moving their votes since they'll get called out for it and moving their votes turns players "against them" so they prevent doing it whenever possible C) The vote on Street read insanely genuine and was understandable in that she was suspicious of them refraining from outing content (The Banksy meta) which is town based paranoia and D) I had a scum read on Milked too and considered voting him as well, it's not just "lurking" it's his initial post coming across as creating a preemptive defence that has more scum motivation.

3C) I skimmed the rest of TSB vs Herselfs posts and I need to take a break and get back to studying for my last final soon so I'll have to call for a rain check and read his posts in more detail later*. Leaning towards him being scum though which is shitty since it would mean my Orestes read was wrong.

4) Oh god at Wake being here. At least the dumb Quad gimmick posts will stop. I do read his line of questioning towards ICE in Post 473 and Post 479 as townish though. As does the "interrogation" of SG in Post 491 but I need to go back and re-read Post 489 later because there's just so much in it to deal with right now but initial impression of it was that the entire summary and thoughts came across as very natural*.

5) SG, you're going to have to explain your town read on Fitz for me.

6) I don't like Milkeds Post 530 at all, the entire "What's the case on Orestes and Fitz" bit while sticking them in "In between" reads as insanely scummy given that a great deal of the the entire threads conversation have revolved around the cases on those two. Don't like his read on me either, the "Scum-reads on lurkers vs Wanting lurkers to be replaced is contradictory" makes no sense whatsoever, especially if he's claiming to have read the thread, taken a break to think about it all and then got back to it; The reads on the lurkers are severely weaker than on active players, replacements allow more content, more content allows stronger reads. The scum read on Kid A also looks like a "Push the weaker player" one rather than a genuine scum read.

Street, ICE, Herself, SG, TvK, Wake88, LolWagons, Kid A.
Garmr (Hoping his reads list is up soon), TSB (Want to go through his and Herselfs interaction later).
HavingFitz, Milked.

I'd be fully up for either a Fitz or Milked lynch at the moment.

Yeah okay, that really wasn't short, sorry. Will try and make it more concise from hereon out.

I'll try and get to the rest of the reading (Wakes wall post and TSBs posts) tonight but worst case scenario I'll get around to it tomorrow morning.

In post 557, Regfan wrote:5) SG, you're going to have to explain your town read on Fitz for me.

His responses to Herself read very genuine and frustrated to me. I feel he's quite honest in his opinion towards how bad her case on him is, and also I do like that he decided to make a scuffle about Herself as a thing to do. Yeah, he tossed in Orestes as a side option, but he was basically picking the biggest or second biggest town dog in the yard and then running over and kicking it. I also really liked all aspects of his defense towards her except the slight futziness about the town read 'you can't read town very well' thing. But I don't feel confident lynching on that one. I actually think he did really well defending his meta.

Ok after my sleep I can think straight


Sexy McSexytail- She is a pretty strong town player I don't really see her as being scum post great content.

ICEninja- Ice ice baby I really don't see him as partnered with anyone and he suspects everyone


This slot I had to think if anyone deserved it and it was hard it took like ten minutes and I came up with one person who fits this.

Regefan- He turned many view around on the banksy slot and in a good way. His been pro active and didn't even seem to be worried about the suspicion around his slot. I especially liked his posts 255 and it continuation in 264 Post 427 is good to and his vote on fiz is good. His leaning on making it to strong town read so he may not stay in moderate town for long. JUst need a bit more content but time will sort that


Both the hydras are on this list especially with their little argument with each other which look staged.

Streets- Post pretty good content but has a couple of iffy posts like post 83

Herself- Most content active scum hunting you must be thinking why isn't he on strong town It's the feeling. He is forceful and manipulative an example of this is with Squirrel girl also my gut feels bad about him/her but brain says town.

Wake- His on this list informative recent posts some it is meh through this could be just not agreeing with some of his reads.



TvK-Could reach the town list with a little more push for him and the fact he isn't could be I see him as wanting to be town read but so far null.

Kid A-Null reads null everything has little content but most it being townish through nothing that can't be bluffed through so remains null.

Lolwagons- Had to rethink my read on him a couple of times so decided to put him here. The way he treats me Is what makes me rethinks this slot. Like we are familiar yet he hasn't metaed me and just played one game with me which is ongoing. If he metaed me and explained why then I would be alright but he didn't.


My milked eek- Hasn't made one good point and seems to be trying to push suspicion elsewhere His posts towards me are trying to get me back on Orestes or others onto me. That's the feeling I get from him anyway.

The silver something- Do not agree with SG here I think his scum. Plus I didn't like Orestes slot.

Fitz- would like him gone for obvious reason.

In post 505, The Silver Bard wrote:

In post 469, Street Hassle wrote:

In post 463, The Silver Bard wrote:So I have been reading up on this game since I got the go ahead to replace in about 2-2.5 hours ago. I play mafia by creating lists of what I find scummy and what I find townie while I go through the game. Reading this many pages in 2,5 hours may have cause me to miss somethings, and I generally find the last pages hard to read with as much details as the first (this is also so for this game).
For now I will post the ones I got the most “scumpoints” on and the ones I got the most “townpoints” on.

The runaway winner for most points awarded is Herself, and all of those are scumpoints. So she/he/it is basicly my biggest scumread.
My number two scumread is Squirrel Girl.
Number 3 is TvK.

For town I got ICEninja as my biggest townread, and Street Hassle as my second biggest scumread.

I will leave you with this for now, I will come back later, or tomorrow with a better post with better analysis. I will need to do some ISO’ing then, and try to battle my confirmation bias (don’t bet on me being able to do this, the bias is strong in this one!)

I checked to see if you used this approach to scumhunting in your completed MS newbie game. It looks like you didn't. You replaced into that game, as well, and into a fairly dire LYLO situation.

Is this something new you are trying out? How does it work?

If you did read post #855 in that game you see that I did. And the following discussions between me and Nacho was him not believing that my list was genuine.

Still this don't give you anything to work on. I would 100% do this as scum as well (I will try to emulate my townplaystyle as scum). In fact I read through the entire thread and made my reads before reading my PM.

The question then is if you believe me. If you don't and you believed I looked at my PM my reasoning should be poor enough and my reads should not seem genuine for you to see that I am scum (if I did roll scum).

It's not a question of belief or disbelief, but of understanding your method, Which is why I asked how it works. I think I have the gist now from this as well as other posts you've made. I don't know why, but the format of your newbie post didn't appear to be the same process. Maybe it's because points weren't explicitly assigned.

Do you have thoughts about why your method didn't work too well in the Newbie game?

If you do believe me the question is: If he rolled scum, did he alter his reads after figuring out who his scumbuddies are? If I had all my scumbuddies on my scummylist I probably would, but if they are on my townlist or neutral I would just carry on and post my reads as they were.

Who are you asking about in the above paragraph?

In post 539, Squirrel Girl wrote:

In post 537, The Silver Bard wrote:

In post 532, Squirrel Girl wrote:

In post 531, The Silver Bard wrote:But here fferyllt explained why, and I buy that explanation.

He actually didn't give the real explanation till much later - the explanation that he gave me that you liked was him stalling for time.

Hmm. It is your post 126 I didn't like. And the way I am reading it SH's post 116 is where fferyllt is saying that they didn't discuss the findings in detail. Correct me if I am missing something here.

You are missing later when the other head showed up to explain the read and the read was 'it was a reaction test, and we're still not going to explain it so we can keep doing reaction tests if we want' Which means they never intended to discuss the read with me and always knew it was a reaction test, but were lying/putting me off so that they didn't have to say that out loud and let Banksys know it was a reaction test. Meaning that, when you say you believe them, what you believed was them putting off saying anything while not actually being truthful about why, meanwhile I didn't like it, and was correct that they were hiding something for strategic purposes. I have decided that what they did was not really that great, but even if you have decided that what they did was town motivated and legit and everything they said was true - that still means you're suspecting me as scum because I correctly identified that they were being hidden about a read. Now, you can try to explain that as scum me trying to press on them to make a town thing they decided to do look scummy, but don't tell me I had no reason to doubt their word. Clearly I did and was right about it.

Why don't you remember any of that happening?

Not true, though this puts the discussion pretty deep in might have beens. If banksys had returned and interacted with us about our suspicions, and we had gotten a reaction that matched what we expected from town-Banksys based on reading completed town and scum games, we probably would have given a pretty brief explanation of why we were unvoting. If the reaction was more like her scum games in similar situations, then it would have been time to write up a case on her posts that included meta analysis. Without a decent explanation for why we were seriously scumreading her and wanted others to also vote her, we wouldn't accomplish much.

In post 538, The Silver Bard wrote: This is what I talk about when I said wordtwisters. Annoying to argue with, because all they want to do is try to misrepresent. I'll correct one thing in your post because it is so ridiculously wrong:

What if ICE would walk in right now and vote Street? Or the other way around? Then they would be instascum, right?

WRONG. As I have said numerous times a single post doesn't make someone instant scum or instant town. It is the sum of it. If one of those came in and voted the other I would put a point on the scumside of one of them, and perhaps try to understand why he suddenly was thinking this.

Keep coming at me with wordtwisting arguements though. I have you as likely scum anyways...

Thanks for correcting this and not addressing the most important part of my post, namely why you are thinking Herself is scum. Everything you have against Herself is either "scum because their opinion is not the same as mine" or "i don't like because what they say does not align with something that one of my townreads said". Also, the biggest part of your reasoning could easily fall apart if your other reads were wrong (for example agreeing with SG would seem scummy in your eyes, because SG is scum in your book), and believe me or not, it is possible to have wrong reads. Your case might look really good to yourself, but you'll have to do a lot better to convince the players in here.

Then, now that SG is "rubbing you the right way". Will you have to reconsider your reads? Do SG's scumreads get extra scumpoints? Do people who agree with her get extra townpoints?

What about me? You have me as your third biggest scumread, probably second biggest by now. Can you please point out to me what made you think this way? And at the end of the day, the two people that disagree with you are "even worse than yesterday". You can already give me an extra scumpoint, because I am disagreeing with you again.

My reads (haven't changed a lot since #280:

TOWN

Street
Herself
ICE
Regfan

LEANING TOWN

Squirrel Girl, I'll have to admit that her playing style threw me off at the beginning, but now I'm fairly sure that she's town.

NULL

LolWagons
Kid A
Garmr, although I didn't like his very soft attack on me in #391, that felt a bit forced, trying to do something townish.

LEANING SCUM

Eek
Fitz, the fact that we haven't heard from him in a while makes him look worse imo.

SCUM

Bard, not for having an opinion I don't agree with. He's trying to make cases when there are none. His entire attack at Herself, SG and me feels so fabricated, nothing natural at all. Desparately trying to look town.

@TVK your links don't work so i had to search manually I got a question.

Your post 564 seems weary of me a little even through I'm just a null read. Yet you ended up with the same scum reads as me, how do you feel about that. Also out of the 3 who would you want lynched most and why.

OK...catching up from ~400.

@Herself wrt Post 407...it wasn't a throw away comment...it was an accurate depiction of what you were doing.  I.e. me being your primary suspect while you were voting someone else.  And even if it was a throw away comment (or mudslinging as you call it)...that doesn't call for someone to be called an asshole.  Basically you do not like any pressure coming back at you and your reaction was you losing your ~cool.  And tryyyy not to be a dick. 

@Wagons wrt Post 417...why were you specifically looking for Regfan's reads?  And what ever came of that effort? 

@Wagons wrt Post 422...I make my cases on players I suspect.  I'm usually pretty good about explaining why I vote someone one.  Other than that...I don't typically do a lot of cheerleading to get people voted.  Especially the earlier in a game it is when there is more room for error.  People can see my suspicions and my defenses and make their own determinations.  And I wasn't going to vote Orestes (put him at 4 votes) when he wasn't even here.  And WTF does Post 424 have to do with anything?  I said it ~9 pages back, things evolve....if my main suspect isn't getting any support I'm not going to waste my vote.

@Regfan wrt Post 427...in my quote at the bottom of your post...ust prior to voting me you leave out the part where I say I do not recall Herself's townreads.  So including the "I'm not sure I could be sheeping you" part loses some of it's context.  And as I was voting Herself at the point I made that statement I don't think I need to caveat everything I say wrt to my suspects with an "if you are town" statement.  The case on me sucks.  Defending myself on it is getting tiresome.  And your hopping on board is a concern....given you aren't a scumread of mine and any town reads on my wagon = bad.

Not liking Garmr's Post 428...advocating a policy lynch while setting me up for D2....for looking suspicious.  Nice work.

@Regfan wrt Post 437...what does me having a scum read on herself and not recalling who they may have listed as town reads have to do with anything?  I'm not going to base my suspicions on someone on who they think is town.  Scum are probably going to list town and perhaps one buddy in any given list town reads...especially one that encompasses a third of the players.  I do not track other players' townreads and even if I am aware of them, they aren't going to prevent me from suspecting anyone.

Post 473 comes across as town IMO.  While I agree with ICE that the Quad/Wake schtick is annoying/distracting...I like what the slot has started to contribute.

Wrt Herself's Post 496 coments on me.  1) I've provided an example where I have asked about hydras before (as town....hello????) and asking a question is not instigation.  SG felt the need to express discontent with the Mollie des hydra.  I was curious why.  

When players call themselves obvtown and say they have zero chance of being lynched it makes me think they aren't town and that they need lynched.

Good to see some content from Eek.  Do the peple on the Eek wagon have reasoning beyond lurking (and no...I haven't checked)?

WRT Garmer's Post 560...what are the "obvious reasons" you want me gone?  You're suspicions towards the Eek slot don't seem as "obvious" and yet you are on that lesser wagon.  Translation...I don't see your rationale for having me as such a strong scum read (though anything you came up with would be wrong) and combined with your vote on Eek...you seem inconsistent.

@TvK wrtPost 564...what would your read on me be if you weren't factoring in my not having posted in a while (Please note my sig block ). 


@Silver's request:

Town: Wake, SG, ICE
Leaning town: The Silver Bard, Eek, Regfan
Null-some suspicions: Hassle, Kid A, TvK
Would lynch: Herself, Lolwagons, Garmr


I've had the town reads on ICE and SG most of the game iirc.  Wake has replaced himself and made the non-entity into a strong town read.

I had suspicions towards Orestes but not for any solid reasons (hence me wanting more content from the slot) and I think Silver has done a good job alleviating my Orestes concerns.  Eek...hasn't really done anything suspect IMO other than activity level which he explained and has seemd to have turned around.  I like most of what Regfan is saying and to be honest...he would probably be a stronger town read if not for his voting of me.  I naturally do not agree with any of the rationale he has presented wrt me being scum.

The nulls are pretty much that because they have fallen into the background (or remained there in Kid's case).  They are all active enough to not be considered flakers but have a lurky feel to them.  Not voteworthy IMO but bear watching.

My top three suspects atm are herself for reasons I;ve stated already.  LolWagons for T S O's play and questonable replace out and their parroting Herself's case on me.  Same for Garmr.  I view their play as inconsistent today and they are lining themself up for a vote on me tomorrow or later today.  And I have yet to see why.  I.e. not obvious.

You are playing scummy as hell which herself has pointed out many times that's how it's obvious and now your throwing an omgus scum read.

All of your scum reads have scum reads on you. You had me as leaning town in your last one but as soon as I have you as a scum read. All your scum reads are omgus.

frustration at fitz's ignorance (fake or real) of his own situation can't spell right head desk.

Your sheeping of a crap case on me without any thought of your own is "scummy as hell."

What is case on me? Bullet format would be nice. At least put a little effort in. As "obvious reasons" = no effort.

P.edit...I did like some of your early posting. Are players locked in to their initial reads? I suspected Orestes and that changed. I liked Kid after 3 posts more that I do now. If I suspect you for omgus reasons I'll be the first to admit it.

I can't catch you on really doing something scummy, but I can't seem to get a solid townread on you. You occasionally say something about your reads, and you've asked a few questions. But you never really go deeper into something. I sometimes find your questions too careful, as if you want to ask some, but you're not really interested in getting an answer. The same with your scumreads. You say you don't like Bard, but the only things you have done is agreeing with me that his reasoning was weird and you gave him your reads. You just called him scum without really questioning what his reasons were. You had a little conversation with Eek, but all you did was answer his questions without putting some heat on him, even though your vote is still on him.

And to answer your final question: I would want Bard lynched most, followed by Fitz.

P-EDIT: GOt quadruple ninja'd, will address those posts in a bit.

To make it clear, my previous post was an answer to Garmr's #565

In post 570, havingfitz wrote:Your sheeping of a crap case on me without any thought of your own is "scummy as hell."

What is

your

case on me? Bullet format would be nice. At least put a little effort in. As "obvious reasons" = no effort.

P.edit...I did like some of your early posting. Are players locked in to their initial reads? I suspected Orestes and that changed. I liked Kid after 3 posts more that I do now. If I suspect you for omgus reasons I'll be the first to admit it.

It's a pretty good case but that's a matter of opinion. It's also the way you omgus, the fact you didn't go for Orestes. He has more chance of getting lynched today than herself. Herself has provided allot of content and even through i'm a still a little wary of them I'm fine with letting them live for the day and if they do flip scum they are going to produce allot more information. Information is important information is key.

In post 553, Squirrel Girl wrote:

In post 548, ICEninja wrote:[Kid A] was lurking heavily, someone asked where he was, and he replied with one word less than 10 minutes after said statement. Kid A is clearly reading the thread and actively lurking. This is super scummy considering how strong of scum hunters we have this game.

I;m extracting this from the wall, because I agree with it and also think it's a quite valid point.

anecdotal evidence