Left 4 Dead Mafia! (Game Over!)

[BBmolla]

Majiffy could potentially be buddying me as scum and I wouldn't know

[BBmolla]

But I'd rather go elsewhere today regardless

[AngryPidgeon]

Molla, read on mastin?

[Majiffy]

The only thing worse to read than a Mastin wall, is a Mastin wall that sudd

enly goes boldmode halfway through and never lets up.

Also there are way too many people complacent with "Sven/Vezok/Majiffy" scum, and a massively underwhelming amount of arguments being made in favor of any of the three of us. Particularly since Vezok and I have pretty much locked horns, and no one seems to be making a single quip about that, or what it may mean for our alignments.

Scum is probably just riding on the outskirts and cheering on wagons at this point. I'll look into this when we get the next VC.

Waiting for the whole game to be restored before I finish catching up.

Well I don't remember where I stopped and I sure as fuck am not starting over. Also I lost a lot of really good interactions from the lost posts including Vezok's scummy as fuck reaction to me calling him scummy as fuck.

I´d be really interested in you explaining why toog is scum

His post carrying on the "lol im scum" joke looked a lot like towncred-fetching.

Pretty desperately.

Random thought - I want to do another audio mafia

If this happens I would like to be a participant and not the host. Keep me posted.

I guess the disappeared posts are just gone.

Is this confirmed? They're not coming back? I tried to ISO the mod and was disappointed by a lack of formal announcements.

http://s6.postimg.org/9mkn7xsn5/bird.png

Hilarious

and that the wagons on scum players like Rubicon and Sven and Majiffy are completely and entirely forgotten.

And why exactly are we scum, again? Because I don't see you really pushing any of the three of us.

Granted I tend to skip past all of your walls always and forever.

reads on people like Molla who certainly havent posted enough to be probably town yet.

Heavily heavily heavily disagree.

Mastin: I don't think Sven is scum. Read his posts. He is way too cocky and proud to be scum. If he was scum he'd think in another way.

Playstyle is not alignment-dependent. Otherwise, I'd always be town by this logic.

Majiffy on the other hand is the scummiest player still alive.

For reasons you have no idea about, with 22 pages of content.

Righteo.

[Aegor]

k. Mastin should change approaches to posting completely or die/be killed because I do not like scaling walls of inane meta/WIFOM that are distractions from productive discussions.

Not getting why people are not voting Majiffy. I mean, the ISO is truly awful. Sven is a meh-wagon; his case against vezok is not great but is not scummy (honestly, forgetting a vote/reason for a vote would seem to me to come more often from simply not having a strong conviction in the first place, which tends to be scummy in itself). I would be fine lynching vezok. If Mastin's posts continue to be bad, I am fine with that lynch as well. BBMolla is also someone from whom I expect much more than is being provided, and his posts thus far have been flaccid.

We really should start lining people off for policy kills or whatever at night.

[sekai no ki]

Scum is probably just riding on the outskirts

I agree with this.

reads list incoming, with or without a synch.

[BBmolla]

Molla, read on mastin?

I think she's town?

[AngryPidgeon]

How am i keeping it safe and being cautious with my read?

Your reads are all pretty boring?

Mastin: Very lightly scum
Toog: Semi Town
Zdenek:Town
Vezok: Scum
Majiffy: Prob Scum
Nero Cain- Looks townish
Rubicon- Prob Scum
Sven- Slightly scum

These are pretty boring reads, lets be honest.

Ap- i dont "need" to make a read on sven vs bulba but i felt it occupier enough space in the stupid thread to mention it? Fucking prblem?

Yes, prblem. Why mention it just for the sake of mentioning it? You also passively rejected the idea that maybe BOTH are scum or BOTH are town in the phrasing you used.

Also regarding bbmolla, its not the fac that he is defending without content, is who he is defending

So is he whiteknighting Majiffy? Defending a buddy? Either/or? This felt weak to me. "Molla is defending a universal scurmead -> scummy". Why is scum-Molla sticking his neck out there to defend someone who has less than 2 pieces of towncred to rub together?

[AngryPidgeon]

Scum is probably just riding on the outskirts and cheering on wagons at this point. I'll look into this when we get the next VC.

[Majiffy]

Scum is probably just riding on the outskirts

I agree with this.

reads list incoming, with or without a synch.

Is that a ffery in there?

I'm inclined to agree here.

I think Ffery is reaching out so let me fondle her for a little bit and I'll get back to you on Wapanese-go-suki Slot.

I don't ever really try to read GIF. Find someone else for that.

I'd also be ok with a Mastin lynch.

[mastin2]

You are either confirmation biasing about this or just assigning scum motivation to Majiffy's post because you are scum.

No. I can read Majiffy, and I can tell that he is scum.

No, no. You are expecting people to scumread you for your early game posts, remember? RC posting this is expected and :goodposting:.

Yes, I expect people to scumread me for the right reasons. RC's scumreading me for all the wrong reasons. And my statement about him being entirely wrong isn't mainly about me, either. It's about his reads, too. Basically, most of my townreads are on the wrong side of his null-line, and my scumreads are way too far up his list. I seriously want to know what RC was smoking to come up with something which (while accurate in some areas) is entirely wrong in others.

Mastin your posts are TERRIBLE this game. You should strongly reconsider your life choices if you are town (you aren't).

Me reconsidering my life choices is precisely why I've gone down the route that I'm going down right now. I'm giving you reads, with more reasoning than I have given in the last half year or so. (Maybe more! It could have feasibly been a full year since the last time I explained in as much detail as I am where I'm coming from.) The reads aren't bad. They're solid. They're unusually-acquired, but these reads are not inexplicable gut-reads that will turn out wrong. They are firmly grounded in reasoning (albeit not fully logical), and well-backed. I can go into detail about every single one of them, and to some extent, I've already begun trying to.

I'll turn your words around. You're heavily into confirmation bias, and it is tainting your other reads. Because we've agreed on so much. You're refusing to listen to what I'm saying. You're refusing to work with my reads, when I've gone out of my way to reach out to you and point out how they're similar and how we should be coordinating them. I'm listening to your reads. I'm listening to your reasoning. You're not doing the same for me.

You keep promising to fix this. Its not like their ISO is enormous.

So vig me. I'm a slacker. Doesn't change my alignment.

And re Town core: No. This town core is a town core. not a place for bullshit willynilly reads on people like Molla who certainly havent posted enough to be probably town yet.

And yet, they're all reads that you have at least partially if not entirely agreed to. Aegor's posting this game is ridiculously town. I could tell from the RVS alone, and it's carried through his posting. His reasoning is strong, his reads make sense, I can follow his mindset perfectly, and he's bluntly one of the most obvtown players in here. Objectively, he'd even be more town than you. (Subjectively, though, you're conftown to me and he's just obvtown.)

Nero is a player I really know. Admittedly, it's been a while since we've had a good and proper game together. But that doesn't change the fact that I've become intimately familiar with his thought process--not just as town, but

also

as scum. I know how he thinks, and who he would attack as scum. His posting does not match that at all. The only concern is that he hasn't been spamposting. That's literally it. And even then, that's explained by the short timeframe of the game, his V/LA, and him not having had a chance to. Other than that, I can see where his thoughts come from, and they are town. They're filled to the brim with town paranoia and caution. Not scum trying to mislynch anyone they please. (That IS a scum Nero trait, by the way!) Town who has every reason to be weary of the exact players he is treading carefully with.

BBMolla is also a player that I know fairly well. I can't remember his scumgame (even though I've seen it before), but I do remember his towngame, and vaguely can put together the differences between the two. (Anything Goes does not count as a scumgame, AP. You misread him as town there because bluntly, he wasn't scum; he was effectively third party.) He's sorta similar to MafiaSSK, except not. Putting aside a misread of him in a game where he wasn't actually scum, what do you think of him, hmm? His relaxed tone. His casual banter. His train of thought, what he's thinking, the effort he's already given the game. (BBMolla effort being more subtle than most.) That's not confident scum who has given nothing of importance. That's relaxed town who is playing naturally and giving content with the flow.

And then there's Bulbazak! Bluntly, it'd have been a scumtell for him to have townread me. This is exactly the type of trajectory (pardon me, ffery) that I'd expect from him-as-town with me. He's not tunnelvisioning. He's not being arrogant. He's treading carefully, but not absolutely cautiously. He's letting his thoughts be known, in an incredibly town manner, and analyzing solidly. His train of thought makes perfect sense, and overall, I really can't see a scum-him having pulled this type of stunt all of a sudden. Choosing this game of all games to fix his faults is, basically undeniably, a complete and total towntell for him.

All of those are SOLID reads, AP, and you darn-well know it. You'd be agreeing to them if you didn't scumread me.

Tell me I'm wrong.

Tell me, to my face, bluntly, that you wouldn't be townreading them solidly if not for me. They are town. You KNOW they are town. You should be agreeing with most of this, even if not using the exact same reasoning, because you've seen the same stuff I see. They are town, and deserve to be in the townbloc.

[sekai no ki]

If you and mastin both turn out to be town, any reads you venture on me in the foreseeable future will be met with pointing and laughter.

Though, to your credit, at least you, AP, aren't claiming you have a read.

There are players in this game who have played with scum-me as well as players who have played a ton of games with town-me. Aside from GiF, none of them have ventured a read. That actually worries me a little more than mastin's on-again off-again scumread.

[Majiffy]

You are either confirmation biasing about this or just assigning scum motivation to Majiffy's post because you are scum.

No. I can read Majiffy, and I can tell that he is scum.

In what games have you had a town alignment and accurately read me as town?
In what games have you had a town alignment and accurately read me as scum?

For what reasons is my performance in this game more akin to my scum-play than my town-play?

This and more, being answered half-assedly if at all by a ScumMastin at 11!

[sekai no ki]

Is that a ffery in there?

Yep

[Majiffy]

Hi. I don't have Mollie to depend on reading half the players in this game so we're going to have to make nice-nice unlike other games where we don't speak ever.

[sekai no ki]

I always speak to you. I just don't pay much attention to your reads before day 2.

[Majiffy]

These are my scum reads of varying degrees;
{Toog, Mastin, Vezok, Pidgey}
Thoughts on each?

Town reads;
{Molla, Rubicon}
Also kinda want to say I had these as town, too;
{Svenskt Stål, dopog}

Thoughts on these would be appreciated too.

[Majiffy]

I always speak to you. I just don't pay much attention to your reads before day 2.

Well that's what I mean by speak.

Obviously we maintain a friendly demeanor.

[Majiffy]

Oh nope nevermind looking at Dopog's ISO his avatar reminds me that he was in the scum pile.

[mastin2]

In what games have you had a town alignment and accurately read me as scum?

Admittedly, I can't recall off the top of my head games of yours where we were both town aside from when we were masons together. However, I can tell you that (including alts) I don't think there's a single scum game of yours that I've been in where I read you as town. For instance, in Gears of War, my memory says you were nullscum. Actually, I think I remember investigating you, specifically because I didn't think you were town. (And died immediately for my trouble. >_<)

It's something that IS a bit difficult to fully explain. The difference is subtle, involving your tone, how you approach the game, your mindset, your scumhunting, and your reads. But basically...who you've attacked has not been players a town-you would attack, who you've scumread are players that a town-you wouldn't be scumreading, and your reads are overall highly convenient to what is best for them to be for you, rather than what you want them to be.

...Okay. Reworded, simply: flowchart. You're not taking control. You're letting others take control, hanging in the background.

[Majiffy]

Great, I accept your apology and admission that you have no idea how to read me and because you have gotten successful with a few weak scumreads in games I have flipped scum, you somehow think you understand my town game.

Piss off.

[AngryPidgeon]

All of those are SOLID reads, AP, and you darn-well know it. You'd be agreeing to them if you didn't scumread me. Tell me I'm wrong.

Tell me, to my face, bluntly, that you wouldn't be townreading them solidly if not for me

. They are town. You KNOW they are town. You should be agreeing with most of this, even if not using the exact same reasoning, because you've seen the same stuff I see. They are town, and deserve to be in the townbloc.

Re underlined....

Uh. Are you honestly trying to tell me that your endorsement of them is affecting my view of them? Its not.

I have varying degrees of town reads on the people you mentioned, just not enough that Im confident about giving them a lifetime membership into my townbloc spa and sauna club.

I couldn't even recall your Bulb read until you posted it; frankly, RC's post made me like Bulba for town more than I did. Your nero read is pretty whatever, as is most of his content this game. (Light townread on him despite this). Molla does seem town but I respect his scumgame enough to townblock him without interacting with him more. Especially since none of his posts aren't fakable right now. (unlikely, but possible).

[Thor665]

because if you are going to ask why i am voting vezok/ still voting vezok my response will be to read the thread

I have.
That wagon is dying due to boredom and a weak case and you're not doing anything to change that - therefore you're wasting your vote currently.
What am I missing?

Random note--I feel like Alpa's the replacement-counterwagon to the scum-Sven wagon. Vezok didn't gain momentum because having me defend a player will typically have that effect. So, instead of wagoning a townread, they wagon a nullread--not just of me, but of most players, so that there is very little resistance against the wagon, and that the wagons on scum players like Rubicon and Sven and Majiffy are completely and entirely forgotten.

Wow.
So, on one hand, there are some players you'd like to see some pressure on.
But a null read of *the entire player base* is not one of them because, hey, that must be a scum counter wagon.
A counterwagon generated by...me and GiF...neither of whom you're calling scum.
Talk to me mastin.
And stop just posting 'I'mma scum, I'mma scum!' with every post - it's not healthy regardless of your alignment.

Also there are way too many people complacent with "Sven/Vezok/Majiffy" scum, and a massively underwhelming amount of arguments being made in favor of any of the three of us. Particularly since Vezok and I have pretty much locked horns, and no one seems to be making a single quip about that, or what it may mean for our alignments.

Your horn lock is immensely forgettable.
Why aren't you sheeping me - man who isn't advancing much worth yelling about?

[AngryPidgeon]

...Okay. Reworded, simply: flowchart. You're not taking control. You're letting others take control, hanging in the background.

Except this really isn't a scumtell for Majiffy?
In GoW he was aggressively shoving a mislynch on me all D1.
I've seen him be aggressive as scum.
Him not being aggressive is .. not a tell?

[sekai no ki]

These are my scum reads of varying degrees;
{Toog, Mastin, Vezok, Pidgey}
Thoughts on each

Toog doesn't seem to be taking as wide a view as I recall from the WD game. Nacho told me during that game that when Toog is town he's obvtown. I'm not seeing that yet, though I thought his run at zdenek looked townish (though IMO misguided).

Still sticking with my townread perhaps out of spite at this point. If I'm correct I'll be invoking bragging rights.

Vezok's recent posts look more town to me

First game with Pidgey, haven't meta'd him yet. He doesn't worry me as much as some players do.

Town reads;
{Molla, Rubicon}
Also kinda want to say I had these as town, too;
{Svenskt Stål, dopog}

Molla's been meh enough that I'm thinking null-scum atm. He's a player who's seen scum-me in a game, as well as modded a game where I was scum. With all the crap swirling in the thread I'm surprised he hasn't taken a stance.

Rubicon I think I agree.

Cautious town read on Svenskt.[/quote]