13p Normal [TM2015]

[Egg]

Boon/Pie, Cheet wants your reads on each other.

Trojan, I meant "bullshit" when I said BS, not Boon.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm disappointed that my STD case isn't getting much support.

Perhaps you should reconsider it

Truncated the quote to save space. I don't think that's STD's argument. He wasn't voting me for a bad push, he was voting me for not having contributed or whatever. As for your next question, I think all his reads were suspect but most especially SK. I don't see how he could have grouped SK in with the town at that point (it would be more reasonable to call him null.) In fact it was almost as if he sorted his read list by how controversial each person was.

Someone else called SK town, Delta (though I forgot who).

I was pretty clearly voting for you in part for having a bad push:

I feel like your read on me is A) wrong B) terrible and C) ignores things I've said.

My vote on you was very reactionary

[Save The Dragons]

Why?

I'm actually still trying to figure you out, even now, just in case.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, I meant "bullshit" when I said BS, not Boon.

I am such an idiot...

[SleepyKrew]

I think I've been saying TJ instead of TH too. Whoops.

[sthar8]

Trojan Jorse


I don't see the issue.

[SleepyKrew]

What was that about a double standard wrt me?

[DeltaWave]

I'm disappointed that my STD case isn't getting much support.

Perhaps you should reconsider it

That doesn't mean I'm wrong but if it's not going anywhere I'm going to need to reformulate.

[Thor665]

Attacking someone to see how they react is *exactly* trying to figure out an alignment last I checked.
Do you not do this?

He had decided his position before I reacted. That's not the same thing.

I don't think all positions are set in stone.
Iliterally play the same way - I attack people, I challenge them, I call everything they do scummy - and I read the reactions that causes. Some flail, some stay cool, but through it all you get to see whatever their inner logic line is by challenging it and demanding answers. Lack of logic that can be followed favors scum.
Is this really the first time you've experienced this from anyone?
Do you never get "conclusions" before analysis from town?

He couched it in factual inaccuracy and nonspecific vagary. It's functionally the same thing.

I disagree, so this is a non-starter for me to see his approach as scummy.

As far as STD, I think he's genuinely frustrated and it's clearly coloring his responses.

Clearly - but frustration is a null tell.

He looks otherwise town.

Why?

Once I'm caught up on everyone else's games and everyone's recovered from the plague I'm sure they'll take a look in here, but I don't anticipate a lot of disagreement.

You and your team tend to think very alike then? Or you think you have eough pull to sway the rest of them regardless?

[pieguyn]

pdodge will post tomorrow

[Egg]

Sleepykrew, I just read your perception of the Jason and Thor discussion regarding Boon. It feels accurate to me, but I'm failing to see why you have an issue with it.

Thor, you were asked if you are open to lynching sthar. A simple "sure" surprises me. You are voting the lead wagon, so I thought you'd say something along the lines of "People should be voting Jason if they want to compromise, not someone with zero votes. Why would I change MY vote?". Why are you open to doing that considering the current situation?

Trojan, if Jason were to flip town, how would that affect your Boon and Thor reads? Is Delta your strongest scum read (at the time of your vote) or are you pursuing that vote because he is a new scum read?

Sleepykrew, do you think Trojan may have been bussing Jason when he voted him?

STD, I never said you were a shitty player. Hell, I really don't think you are. At all. Not sure what gives you that impression either. Either I said something that was taken a way that I didn't mean for it to be taken, or that is just AtE. Also, Thor isn't the only player in this game day that you've pulled the "I'm ending this conversation" card on.

His conclusion was 'trying to appear to contribute without doing so.' But my opinions were not the big popular ones, my questions all had utility and none of them had already been answered. He made a bunch of unsupported assertions involving factual inaccuracies. His read of my posts was not accurate, but he still pushed the same conclusion. What reason does town have to push a conclusion despite the evidence being bad?

I don't think the evidence was bad. To be fair, you haven't followed up on ANY of it except in response to me. If I hadn't said anything, I honestly can't say I believe you'd have done anything with it. Therefore, it was apparently a pretty useless post even though it has the appearance of contribution. So I wasn't exactly wrong on it.

My 'angle' amounts to egg being scum because his conclusions were not factually

^This isn't true. Go back and read my posts in response to you earlier.

Delta, my bad. I hadn't read your full attack on STD when I asked that and the first post you made about it didn't give much info. That question was due to me not being caught up as opposed to you not giving enough info.

He had decided his position before I reacted. That's not the same thing.

If this was true, I wouldn't be wavering on my read on you. Are you even reading my posts? The above seems to apply more to your stance on me than the other way around.

Aaaaaand I'm caught up.

Vote Boon

[Thor665]

Thor, you were asked if you are open to lynching sthar. A simple "sure" surprises me. You are voting the lead wagon, so I thought you'd say something along the lines of "People should be voting Jason if they want to compromise, not someone with zero votes. Why would I change MY vote?". Why are you open to doing that considering the current situation?

Because I'm open to it.. I would be fine with his lynch today. I would be fine with a lot of lynches today.
I didn't move my vote for a reason, however.

[SleepyKrew]

Sleepykrew, I just read your perception of the Jason and Thor discussion regarding Boon. It feels accurate to me, but I'm failing to see why you have an issue with it.

I don't understand why a townie wouldn't just admit to being wrong or at least partially admit to being partially wrong. jason feels like panicking scum to me.

Sleepykrew, do you think Trojan may have been bussing Jason when he voted him?

Yes.

[Fenchurch]

So many wallposts these past two evenings. I'm trying to get ready for a meet!

I haven't caught up with all these essays yet, but none of the arguments I've seen grab me. If I was going to compromise I might vote sthar. pie is the person I trust most besides myself.

Would still most like to lynch jason. Would like him to respond to my #511, and Sleepy's #535.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, if Jason were to flip town, how would that affect your Boon and Thor reads? Is Delta your strongest scum read (at the time of your vote) or are you pursuing that vote because he is a new scum read?

Probably the Boon read would stay the same, and the Thor read would get stronger.

I don't know if Delta was my strongest scum read when I cast my vote. Too close to call. I voted for Delta because I had spent so much time reading Jason's and Thor's isos, and I was tired of trying to decide between them. I thought that, if I can't decide between choice A and choice B, maybe I should pick a choice C instead. (Hey, it helped me organize my thoughts. So I guess it was a good move.)

[Save The Dragons]

STD, I never said you were a shitty player. Hell, I really don't think you are. At all. Not sure what gives you that impression either. Either I said something that was taken a way that I didn't mean for it to be taken, or that is just AtE. Also, Thor isn't the only player in this game day that you've pulled the "I'm ending this conversation" card on.

I'm aware I'm being overly sensitive. Your point, however, looked a lot like "STD is scum playing poorly and his team coached him into correcting his poor play," hence my response.

This game has caused me much stress and a lot of that is on me. I'm actually pretty sure I'm done with mafia for a while, but that was a long time coming with real life issues and past games that have had issues, not due just to what's been happening here. Long story short I usually come to mafiascum when I'm stressed and I leave even more stressed.

As far the "ending this conversation" the only other person I recall doing that with is Delta. And if you look back I didn't actually stop conversing with him as far as I'm aware, I kept hounding him about two posts of mine that he ignored and his response to his post. If anything, he stopped engaging with me with his repeated "what do you think of my case" "jihad" etc etc etc.

I hate not voting for thor but I'd prefer this wagon to jason.
VOTE: Boonskiies

[Malakittens]

I think I'm going to be here later tonight. Just after I eat >___>

[Thor665]

I appreciate the counterwagon for analysis - but admit the jason wagon feels more just and real right now.

[Egg]

Trojan, I fucked up. I meant if Jason flipped scum.

STD, my point was that it didn't seem natural and could have been based on team advice. Everyone should be getting advice from their team whether they are a good player or not.

[jasonT1981]

I appreciate the counterwagon for analysis - but admit the jason wagon feels more just and real right now.

Because its easy and you don't have to do anything.

Fen - I'll reply to you tomorrow, past 36 hours have been very busy with the airline strikes in Spain and France my parents got stranded at an airport. So not had a chance to reply to those.

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan, I fucked up. I meant if Jason flipped scum.

That would move both Boon and Thor closer to the town side. But I'd still have my doubts; jason is quite capable of bussing his buddies.

[Malakittens]

...

I don't even know where I was last.

Can someone just give me a run down on the votes on Boon again?

[SleepyKrew]

I appreciate the counterwagon for analysis - but admit the jason wagon feels more just and real right now.

Because its easy and you don't have to do anything.

Why do you think wagoning you is easy? Do you think you're scummy?

[Save The Dragons]

Can someone just give me a run down on the votes on Boon again?

Boonskiies: his entire line of questioning for 407 411 413 and 414 kind of looks like scum trying to push the lynch on me further with a crap argument especially considering it came after he was reminded of my list

When I continued this inquiry I got "I just don't like it. It's not my fault."

Also I don't really want to lynch Jason. Boon is an acceptable lynch that seems possible.

At least that's why I'm voting for him. I actually don't agree with jason's meta argument on him.

[Egg]

My main concern with Boon is how he first throws out the VI card and then goes all "lol I can be useful" and does nothing. The entire purpose of his game right now is trying to WIFOM votes on him into looking bad.