↑ Zar wrote:ffery wrote:"Anyway.
I'm not sure about Zar, but he seems more tentative than I recall him in our previous game.
Also, I've mostly seen Tammy get it right when she develops strong interaction-based reads on day 1.
Actually if you look at that game you'd see I'm not particularly big on day one in general.
Also, I don't know how much experience you have with Tammy overall, but I come from the same board that she started playing in, and the attitude she's giving me is the reason I actually stopped playing games that had her in them or that I could deduce she would be potentially involved in (by means of not co-modding, or the game being alted). If you need specifics into what I'm talking about, you can research really old games, like Seacore's Law and Order, which I ended up replacing out of here. There are two other games in the public Westeros board (85.5 and 86). 85.5 in particular is altless, so if that thread it's still up its not hard to follow through. When we have played together though, Tammy hasn't really been able to read me correctly. So she resorting to use Empire as proxy to try to get a read on me seems something she would do.
I have other things I want to respond to in regards to you and the things you've posted, but this feels like a huge discredit. Your entire first paragraph is criticizing my attitude and using as examples games that are over three years old as proof of my bad attitude, so I can't possibly have a point. I haven't been completely horrible at reading you, but yes, I did read you wrong in the recent unbalanced game. You haven't been particularly decent at reading me, and there was enough crap thrown at each other in those games years ago and were in large part due to the fact that I fooled you in the first game we played together and the paranoia you demonstrated after seemed completely out of the ordinary.
If I'm resorting to using Empire as a proxy to get a read on your slot, that should be a pretty big indicator for one thing. And yes, I am trying to gauge you through your team. Empire has been looking forward to team mafia; I think if you were town, there would be an indication of his excitement to get this game solved and I'm not seeing that.
↑ Zar wrote:Why would I need to make up stuff?
(Empire thinks reading your angry posts is funny).
This is likewise a discredit. I ask you if you are talking to your teammates, and this is your response? Your reference to my "angry" posts, which looking back I don't think are angry at all. Forceful, yes, angry no. I was trying to get at why Shadoweh was simultaneously calling me scummy and wanting to avoid me and comparing me to fantasy camp but not really. Getting a read on people I know best, am closest to, is pretty much my M.O., so the insult makes no sense, especially considering empire is supposedly town reading shadoweh.
You say that my attitude is why you stopped playing with me, and you know that's fine, we did have problems in the past but we've played games over the past couple of years and yeah we've argued or got paranoid of each other but as far as I remember it hasn't been out of control, nor was I in this game last night. Unless you just take issue with me suspecting you.
But you pull up my attitude, and if playing with me was so against what you'd want to do in life, then I'm not sure why you chose this game when it should have been a given that this is the game I'd be playing in. And if you really did think oh wouldn't want to deal with Tammy's attitude, then I really really have a hard time understanding why you'd insult me knowing that it would get under my skin and I wouldn't take too kindly to it.
But it does make sense from you as scum. As everyone, including Empire, knows that if you frustrate me and get me mad then I'll make an emotional push that some people will think won't make sense and I'll be discredited. (Considering that half of your entire team employed that method on marketplace while scum and it was quite effective, it makes perfect sense that this would be a repeat here.)
Also, there's something really big missing there. If Empire was really scum reading me, then that "anger" would be me faking anger or me being angry at being caught. The anger wouldn't be funny then; it would be alignment indicative and should have been used as a means of pushing me, but it wasn't. It wasn't put to any use or game relevance whatsoever; it was a throwaway line designed to make me upset. That's not town.
Also squared it was used in response to me questioning whether or not you guys were actually having discussions about the game, and then you deflected even further by wanting an answer for my casual claiming but without actually asking me what you wanted to know as if I'd ignored a question directed at me.
And even if you guys have realized herpaderp that was a silly question, I'd like very much for you to explain you guys' though process on asking me that.
Because you said:
zar wrote:
My team's opinion on you is all jumbled, which is why I asked you Mina's question when you asked about our discussions (being fair, Mina suspected it because of fferry's flipped PM.
which doesn't make a whole lot of sense for two reasons:
1) This is my second post of the game:
↑ Tammy wrote:But we also need to know signs to use our roles, right?
Which should indicate I was thinking about the mechanics insofar as they pertained to roles, which would indicate I had access to something even if you forgot that everyone did. And considering the amount of confusion I displayed over everything this game, the fact that there was one thing I didn't should be an indication it's something I was thinking about.
2) I don't understand why it would be suspicion in the context of ffery's role pm. ffery was essentially a vanilla townie, and it had been addressed already in this game
by Titus that most of us had access to at least two abilities. The abilities she mentioned are the exact two abilities mentioned in ffery's role pm, so I'm not sure what ffery's role pm had anything to do with me mentioning my role.
I'd also like to know why me even mentioning having a role would be cause for concern.
Another thing I'd like to know in the midst of you explaining why your team had a "scum" read on me, you didn't indicate the very one thing you should have if you were scum reading me.
If I were scum, then I was faking not knowing that alcuin and the z guy were actual roles in the game. Me not understanding the mechanics is null; the premise remains the same, I'd still be confused and need to see how things work in motion. But, if scum I'd definitely know how the nightkills worked and I'd definitely know those two role pms weren't samples but were roles in the game. Therefore, a good portion of day one would be me being a big faking faker, but none of your reasons for me scum is anything about me doing that. So either your team believed I didn't know, which would make me town, or I'm faking, which would make me scum. But none of you said anything about that, and instead asked me really lame stuff like why did I mention my role, and why didn't I comment on espy maybe using a token to get scum.
As far as things in this game go, those two things seem really irrelevant to my alignment. I mean if my anger was funny, why was it funny being directed at someone your slot is town reading? Wouldn't that hinder a town win? Don't you guys want a town win? Like the motivation makes no sense to me at all.
zar wrote:
And, tbh, I mean I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect me to relay Empire's (or Mina's and Regfan's) thoughts 100% perfectly when I don't have the entire context of their thought processes, so all you get is the partial message from what I understand they're saying. It basically puts me in a delivery boy spot (as it shifts me into having to question them) and doesn't let me focus into trying to gather myself to get into the game and organize my townreads, which I believe it's the thing I'm better at in day one.
This would hold a shitton more weight if you hadn't played team mafia in the last go around and wouldn't already have an expectation that this is exactly how things would go. And I'm pretty sure people's problem with you is not that you can't convey mina or empire's thought process 100% perfectly but that what you have literally makes no sense from a town perspective. Empire hasn't been following games recently so why in the great green hell is he giving meta reads that are at least a year old. And why would you get after me for using meta on him that's old when he's using that very same meta for someone else?
I do agree with ffery that regfan's read could be that wrong and come from town, but it also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I literally said twice the first day of the game that I wasn't doing much in the way of reads because I had my dissertation due. Not only that but it was a Sunday. I rarely play mafia on Sundays and half your team knows I've been working on getting my dissertation defended, so even if Regfan was like "she said she's not scum hunting but she's not scum hunting because she's scum" I don't understand why the part of your team that knows I've got something going on wouldn't point out the relevant details. So I can see him being concerned, but going eh okay I'll wait to see what she does on the day she said she'd start doing stuff.
But most importantly, I can't understand why if your team is scum reading me, they didn't actually do anything or question me about anything.
↑ Zar wrote:Gotta keep in character, I guess? ##
Vote: tammy
.
btw, my
circlejerk
team thinks espy is the most likely player to have waged scum tokens into this setup... regfan met him irl and apparently he couldn't stop talking about how much he loves being scum and all these evil mustache twirling plans he had in mind for future scum games, so...
↑ Zar wrote: ↑ Tammy wrote: ↑ Zar wrote:Gotta keep in character, I guess? ##
Vote: tammy
.
btw, my
circlejerk
team thinks espy is the most likely player to have waged scum tokens into this setup... regfan met him irl and apparently he couldn't stop talking about how much he loves being scum and all these evil mustache twirling plans he had in mind for future scum games, so...
↑ Zar wrote:Um, actually we decided to use all of our tokens on Empire and Regfan... I'm kinda surprised you wouldn't expect that from our team, it seems like something you would know?
↑ Zar wrote:because Empire and Regfan prefer being town over anything, whereas if you look-up my remakrs to Regfan from last team Mafia in the Scummies post-game, you'd notice I mentioned I wouldn't go after a scumslot?
Anyway, I don't think this line of conversation is going to take us anywhere.
I've been thinking about this and it bugs me too. If you guys were actually really concerned that espy used tokens to get his mustache-twirling scum role, why not start a wagon on him to gain reactions? Instead you make a pseudo-vote on me and then get after me because I didn't comment on whether or not I think he did use tokens. And then you get offended and claiming I'm smearing you when I say I could see you taking a token. Why do you think it's okay to start a conversation about someone else who likes scum taking tokens and then get offended that someone else said you might take a token for scum? But furthermore, why not start a wagon on Espy to garner reactions there? Why be concerned about my reaction or non reaction? And considering I'm far more interested in other people's reactions and am perfectly capable to reacting to stuff I think I should, thinking I'm scum for it makes no sense.
I don't get this tone. I don't get why you would assume that I would know Empire and Regfan hogged the tokens to try to get town. I know you prefer scum as much as they prefer town, so why is it unreasonable for me to suspect you would take a token to get scum, when your team suspected someone else used tokens to get scum.
Also, why are you appealing to something you said at last team mafia's game and why would you expect that I would know that? This kinda feels like caught for the wrong reasons when you could just as easily tell me what you guys did with your tokens.
