Mafiascum.net

sorry i'm just kind of exhausted w/ the game day and i don't have strong feels about a whole hell of a lot

can you hang on for another day, please?

I'm writing a post to you about why I think AJ is scum, I meant to do it earlier but I was just in a shitty mood all day so I never got around to it (my fault). I don't know exactly how long it'll take, so we might not be able to *really* talk until tomorrow, but either way I'd like if you could wait for me.

for the record, if you see my post and you still really don't want it, I would feel much, much more comfortable with an OA lynch over an S_S one.

also, I don't have a super-strong town read on Syr or anything but he is not in the set of people I want to make dead today

did you talk to notty about it? seems you two don't agree still?

And yeah, write the post; i'm considering everything. Probably more than is healthy.

I'm basically just going to go through AJ's ISO from the top and go through everything that I don't like in order.

181 still feels really bad to me, for the same reason I pointed out before: tonally, it read strongly like a scum post to me.

I didn't like his response to me in 231, mostly because I don't really buy that he had absolutely no scum reads at that point in the game.

I thought 317 was completely terrible, for a whole bunch of reasons. the first paragraph of the post actually just reads like a straight up discredit; he clarified in subsequent posts that he wasn't taking our read as a meta read, so it's basically just him attempting to throw out an excuse along the lines of "these people haven't played with me in forever so they shouldn't be able to have any read on me". the second paragraph of the post was him directly calling the post where I called his focus off "bullshit", which is mostly notable because it doesn't fall in line with what he does later (which I'll get into later).

I also thought the read he gave on OA was really terrible: all it is is him just nitpicking on her reads and inventing reasons that "she shouldn't be having the reads that she has". I don't really think saying "you shouldn't give up the town read on bork just because he's good as scum" makes any amount of sense; OA's mindset with regard to her read on you was perfectly fine (and I know I can say this because I've had games like FF where even though you had a lot of posts I just kinda hazed out and couldn't see anything town because "he could fake all of them easily enough"). then we have "Syr shouldn't be your strongest town read" with no further justification for it at all, but I think the worst thing there is how he criticized the S_S read, since there were plenty of angles he could have pushed there that would have actually been legitimate; OA's reasoning for her read on S_S is actually pretty awful (and her read there is pretty much the major issue I have with her slot at this point in the game), yet AJ completely misses it and instead nitpicks based around "you shouldn't have such a strong read on S_S and no read on the people with more posts", which is an angle that's far easier to push as scum since he doesn't have to directly call out OA's read for what it is.

for what it's worth, notty specifically told me he disagrees about this point: he thinks his OA read at least is reasonable.

next, there's 338 ~ 345. at this point, he very clearly thinks I'm just making up my read on him, but the thing is, he's done absolutely nothing to actually push me over it. usually, if you think someone is outright making up a read on you, you would be all over it trying to call them out for it, show everyone else that they're making up the read on you, and generally just not let them get away with it. he isn't doing anything like this, he just continues to nitpick about OA's reads. this, to me, indicates that he didn't actually believe his response to me and that he just thought that he had to call my read on him "bullshit" to make it look less credible - he isn't pushing us because we're very clearly town and he can't figure out any way to get away with actually pushing us without making himself look like obvious scum. I also just generally think there's a complete lack of pointed questioning directed to *both* of me or OA - none towards me and only the one post to OA.

396 is another post where I'd expect something a lot more direct than what he actually did - again, there is no pointed questioning here, it reads really deflective (the same way his 231 to me did).

431 read as off to me because again, his focus is all off: he supposedly has me who is making up a read on him, and OA who he apparently feels strongly enough is scum that he berates Syr for being on him over her, but again, there's no real pointed questioning to either of us, he just keeps going on about other things (i.e. associatives in this post).

notty and I still don't *really* agree on this read - from what he's told me, he thinks that AJ is a slower player who needs flips to really be able to get going in the game and he wants to give him until D2 and see what he does before launching a serious push on him. he also thinks AJ is largely town hunting and doesn't take as much issue with his lack of any concrete push, but I don't agree with this at all (since he clearly has at least tried to express a major scum read on OA).

I don't really think "he's always awkward" is an excuse for any of this, since a lot of his play seems very clearly scum motivated to me independent of "awkwardness", so I'd like if you could walk me through what I'm missing here.

a lot to process here. i'm gonna watch some HOTS and i'll have hopefully a decent parse & response tomm morning

the town signals I'm seeing in S_S are his treatment of Dunn and his reaction to his wagon; in addition to what I said earlier (his push on Dunn being really understandable coming from him and mirroring my own concerns to some extent), 460 is actually a pretty succinct explanation of what is wrong with all of the votes on him.

notty is in explicit agreement with me that the wagon on him is bad.

In post 555, Seiko x Naomi wrote:the town signals I'm seeing in S_S are his treatment of Dunn and his reaction to his wagon

Seriously?

In post 555, Seiko x Naomi wrote:460 is actually a pretty succinct explanation of what is wrong with all of the votes on him.

460 is a bunch of misreps.

If I thought you were making up a read on me, I'd be voting you because you'd be scum, Pie. Your read that I was tunneling TOB was garbage, not made up. There's a distinction there. And that distinction unfortunately wrecks like 90% of your points. Specifically you wondering why I'm voting OA over you shouldn't really be a point anyways (OA's response was in a different dimension of bad, considering he decided to be unreasonable with me after seemingly deciding to explain himself first). Yeah I'mma fight your "Aj's tunneling TOB" statement. What kinda tunnel goes "Yeah I have nothing more to address with TOB for now" after two or three posts? For the basis of your read on me, it seems pretty self-explanatory why I think that read is atrocious.

You go on to talk about how I don't try to change your mind on me. I very rarely address reads on me. Or... at least recently I haven't been bothering in any of my games because it's too fucking boring to argue about the one known constant to me. All it leads to is a bunch of WIFOM especially when it comes to meta or "I think he'd do this" sort of statements. Why don't I try to get you over your read on me? Because I couldn't care less with your read on me. It also makes this game a hell of a lot easier if people use me as a wagon since I don't have to guess if it's a wagon on town or scum. Ergo, I don't really care if I end up getting run up.

Specifically with my post on OA, you make up some semantics on how me saying "scum reading S_S with 3 posts while no read on Dunn is bad" when I should just say "S_S read is bad". What does it matter, really? To me, as bad as the S_S read was, not having a read on TOB or you is more perplexing. Not having an opinion is just a lack of trying. If OA flips red, I need to know WHAT CAUSES a distinct lack of reads there. There's no reason to stop at "reading S_S as scum here is bad" because that's far too shallow in the issues in that post. Really, you set it up as me being scum and attacking OA, all I see here is you trying to fit me into an alignment with no basis. The information want involves connections like why OA would avoid mentioning you/TOB. I could shout that it's stylistic but really it's common sense. "Why are you scumreading S_S" answered with can be answered with 'gut' and the best you get is someone saying 'that's a weak reason'. Cute, what's that actually do you? Unless you have a lot of those marks, all you get is general disapproval.

With 396 in particular, I'm not particularly interested in Syr's scum read (as explained above, not interested in fighting them). My belief is that Syr did not play the sequence out naturally. Reading into his posts, he acted suspicious at what had occurred, but his reasoning wasn't sound and reinforced my idea that OA and Syr could be a pair. (This reason is because in my town flip at an L-1 lynch, him calling OA/Dunn a partner of mine makes no fucking difference. If he wanted to push again, it'd be as a 'you white knighted Aj' sort of deal, meaning regardless of how to pursue either Dunn or OA in that situation, it would require throwing out the reason to cast suspicion in the first place). Is there reason for him not to unvote? Sure, but to lack any reconsidering (as alluded to), no, he's suggested such that I'd expect suspicion where none was found..

Votecount 1.16

Aj The Epic

(1) - Seiko x Naomi

Obvious Alt

(2) - Aj The Epic, Syryana

Shadow_step

(3) - Dunnstral, Obvious Alt, borkjerfkin

(L-2!)

Dunnstral

(1) - Shadow_step

Syryana

(1) - The Oxford Bubbles

Not Voting

(1) - Charloux

With

9

players eligible to vote, it’s

5

to lynch!

Day 1 will end in

(expired on 2017-01-26 06:01:00).

Mod Notes:

That's a lot of overnight posting.

TOB is voting Syr, that VC is incorrect.

I support raven's vote!!! I should never have let go of my vote on syryana!!!

- Bubbles

Seiko... can ya tell me what ya read on Syryana is?

- Bubbles

I merely read the posts to know what is going on. Shadow is still null to me. Didn't like reasoning for the vote on Dunn, but i don't know the extent of his hate towards him so i can't judge it as AI. What are your other reads Shadow? Make a Ranger list maybe?

I have You and Bork as town and TOB as lean town because of the claim. Bubbles head of that Hydra is very scummy though and I'd love it if they just lose the password to the account, they're pretty useless and add nothing.
I'm torn on AJ and S&N
Scum lean on Dunn and OA

In post 563, Charloux wrote:i don't know the extent of his hate towards him so i can't judge it as AI

lol, it's fake.

Obvious Alt  Jan 12, 01:29pm  Jan 20, 12:51pm  
3 days 3 hours
  11

plz

dammit pie i think you're right.

and now i'm changing my mind again.

I get that he's not pushing your slot and you think he should be, but he's pushing another slot that he finds scummier.

nevermind i initially misunderstood 558 in the context of the AJ's reads.

I'm holding where I am for the moment. I'll be around later tonight to maybe get more in depth.

Obv Alt replacement would be pro-town as fuck though.

In post 567, borkjerfkin wrote:dammit pie i think you're right.

About what?

I thought I'd saw something in AJ's 558 that alleged he never scumread Pie at all just was put off by the read on him but I don't think he's actually saying that now so don't worry about it

In post 323, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I'd let syry have my children.

In post 458, Seiko x Naomi wrote:Its okay syry i figured it out :>

In post 472, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I refuse to lynch syry

In post 494, Seiko x Naomi wrote:syry's a lock read for me and idr where he was for pie

We don't really agree, no. Hence my "give him a day" thing.

Of all the wagons right now, the only one I would join is OA.