Mini Normal 1983: Winter Wonderland [Endgame!]

[sheepsaysmeep]

pagetop

[humaneatingmonkey]

First of all Flubb, you scumread me and think I'm a policy lynch for "pushing for the quick lynch" (not what happened) of two players when at least two players have pushed to have UC at L-1 at game start. Also, pushing for lynches is not in itself AI. So I don't know what makes me Mr. Special

[humaneatingmonkey]

Second, at least everybody here has been trying to figure out what has been happening so changing reads is not particularly scummy but you're so aggro about my presence that you're trying to fit everything that I do, AI or not or even town indicative to be scum just to fit your dumb narrative

[humaneatingmonkey]

You say synthetic isn't a thing but it's just another word for tone reading and I don't see you yelling at sheep or anyone else about it

plus, if you're looking at policy lynches, there are better options

so i think, the difference between me and your other pushes is that I'm right on my money about you, Hopkirk, and Buj or at least one of them to be scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

my shit gambits have lasted for no longer than 12 hours and it's as simple as shocking people for reactions. it's mafia 101 that people do that. so how do you attribute that to scum

the answer is you have nothing on me and you're being aggro over nothing and using aggro languages to make it so that I'm Mr Scum when we should get back to looking at lynching you, Hop, and Buj

[mozamis]

man 23 pages

[sheepsaysmeep]

lolrip

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, your aggressiveness shouldn't even be there. there's no pressure on you as town. and it's not like this discussion is heated. but how come you're off the wall? it's because a fire has been lit under your ass from me calling you scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

man 23 pages

i really need town!moz here, man

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, Flub, there's a bunch of shit that you were willing to fly past you in your airy pursuit of my lynch. Never saw you comment on those? Instead you were busy shaping a lynch agenda for yourself. Eek.

[Katyusha]

I'm probably going to divide this into two posts (one to counter the argument that the way HEM's "encouraging quicklynches" is scummy, the other to explain why he's town in general)

---

I think on paper, Seph's argument that scum would simply push for quicklynches because it benefits scum makes sense on paper, but if you're going to use Occam's Razor like that, you need to look at the context here and make an alignment call from that. So let's start with the Flubber wagon.

VC please. Can we focus on a Flubb wagon? Thank you.

Flubb, why should we think you're town?

every time someone's being mass voted because I don't want someone to hammer and use the lack of VCs as an excuse

Don't unvote. If someone hammers, it would be AI and I'd like to see why. I'm actually good with the lynch if it happens.

I think these three posts show that HEM's intentions are transparently

not

to just off Flubber.

Him asking for a votecount and pointing out that a lack of a VC is an easy excuse for scum to "accidentally" quickhammer shows that he's at least taking precautions. If he was being careless and just wanted Flubber to get quicklynched, there's no point in doing this. He could

plausibly

be scum trying to get towncred from this but that's not the argument being made.

Sure, there's risk involved in leaving someone at L-1, but 193 and him taking precautions shows that he's aware of that and is specifically creating an environment where if that

were

to happen there would be sufficient grounds to analyze the hammer beyond an ambiguous "oh, well, it was an accident!".

To me, that seems like doing something that's anti-town (wanting to leave the risk of a quicklynch) in a pro-town manner (taking precautions that force a lolhammerer to be accountable for their actions).

---

VOTE: Not_Mafia L-1 this pls and make him claim.

I don't know how this could be more transparent in context, but the timing of this kind of made this obvious that HEM was annoyed by not_mafia's shitposting (possibly scumreading him at that moment, can't speak for monkey but that's what I assumed) and wanting to lynch him. If you're confident that someone's scum or want to bluff that, you're going to want them to die. The process for killing someone in the day is to L-1 them and force them to claim. This just seems really simple to me I don't know why it's being used as an argument.

I honestly thought I'd have something more to say about the n_m vote but like it just seems really obvious to me i dont know how else I can add to this point

but yeah there's? a very clear and obvious town narrative for this argument so

at the very least

this is NAI. if you're going to scumread HEM i'd like something that at least discusses how genuine these pushes are even

Also, Flub, there's a bunch of shit that you were willing to fly past you in your airy pursuit of my lynch. Never saw you comment on those? Instead you were busy shaping a lynch agenda for yourself. Eek.

+1

[sheepsaysmeep]

can someone tell me what occam's razor is

[Katyusha]

for the record if Bu/Hop is actually SvS then I don't think it's likely scum is in the lurkers/inactive slots.

just a hunch but i need to solidify my understanding of bu's meta and i have bigger fish to fry

can someone tell me what occam's razor is

the argument that the simplest explanation is the correct one

[Flubbernugget]

You did push a quick lynch. It's not a reaction test because you didn't, yakno, say anything about the reactions. That has been a point of my case since I voted for you.

It's accepted now that being loud about who you want lynched is how you get people lynched. It's been like that for a while, and I can cite examples of town doing it from at least two years back. In the presence of faster posting, this idea is then exasperated. I still have other reads amongst this. The only reason I'm most active with you is because you have something to say after every point I make. Scum flailing is a real tell, but I'm not going to use "flail" and expect other people to see it. I'm going to be precise and unambiguous. You've seen in this game at least three confusions in this game because someone pointing to tone with no further detail.

The only other thing you have left at that point to show as "aggression" is again, me matching your caustic tone. That's bunk.

You also have very little to say about me catching going your bad read trajectory. And sorry, saying "I reevaluated" In hindsight doesn't hold water. Can you explain to me how scum can't make a post like that?

And I can absolutely promise you that if you actually tried to point at my inconsistencies in what I'm pushing you'd end up being caught with your pants around your ankles, again, trying to split hairs.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i played a hydra game with ucv, and we randed scum
his comments to me pregame were smth along the lines of:
"rvs are our friend, try to make them last as long as you can"
unless he's faking this on purpose, he's most likely town

is that an rvs vote or an opportunistic vote

Not mafia is my second candidate for scum. They were a lot more careless as town in the last games I've played with them compared to now.

was he more careless before or is he not careless here
he seems pcareless to me

how forced is this read?

it's a wagon growing quickly
you/flubb both hopped on with none of your own reasoning
it's opportunistic

VOTE: flubber
entrance still bad

why do you care

i guess early day wagons are good for pressure/reactions
im fine with that now
seph reacts good under some pressure
what even is a dichotomy

nm is a pain in the ass to try to read

Kat, my N_M vote was to see if there are any people that would jump at N_M because N_M is a lynchbait. Also to see what N_M would make of that because he used the same language at the start of the game. The only way to read N_M, and the people around N_M, is through context.

[humaneatingmonkey]

pls ignore the sheep quotes it's a mistake i was trying to look at sheep's posts earlier

[humaneatingmonkey]

flubb you dont have inconsistencies because you are consistently bad at your push

[humaneatingmonkey]

scum tries to be more consistent and self-aware, actually. you know this.

[Katyusha]

Kat, my N_M vote was to see if there are any people that would jump at N_M because N_M is a lynchbait. Also to see what N_M would make of that because he used the same language at the start of the game. The only way to read N_M, and the people around N_M, is through context.

i guess that makes sense as well

still, i tried walling why I think HEM is town but it's just not really a read you can case like that. i'll try my best to briefly explain it

i think the way he used the flubber wagon as i pointed out earlier was town, i liked the way he sheeped my hopkirk push with his own points and developed that read with the pressure our votes had together for us to come onto the same page without me explaining my read, and have mostly been in sync with him this whole game without my exclusive lead

i dont know if it's his caustic attitude or whatever that makes people dislike him but he's like obviously scumhunting and developing reads in a genuine way

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not caustic. im the friendliest person. im just calling it how it s. there are way worse people in mafiscum than me stop this fakenews

[Flubbernugget]

Kat,

Let's argue from the premise that hum was attempting genuine reaction tests.

Why can HUM then not point to a single thing about how they forwarded town? Why do you have to do that for him?

What does this say about him not willing to interact with me like he did with hop until there's evidence that people are starting to see what I'm catching on to? What does this say about the fact that it looks like he's faking reads? What does it say about him trying to get pressure off himself by calling my aggression uneccesary?

[Flubbernugget]

flubb you dont have inconsistencies because you are consistently bad at your push

Cool,

Why am I in your scum team then?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You know what this means, Kat. Hydra time after this game. If you're scum, I'll avoid playing with you again for leashing me.

[Sephiroth]

I think these three posts show that HEM's intentions are transparently not to just off Flubber.

Him asking for a votecount and pointing out that a lack of a VC is an easy excuse for scum to "accidentally" quickhammer shows that he's at least taking precautions. If he was being careless and just wanted Flubber to get quicklynched, there's no point in doing this. He could plausibly be scum trying to get towncred from this but that's not the argument being made.

Sure, there's risk involved in leaving someone at L-1, but 193 and him taking precautions shows that he's aware of that and is specifically creating an environment where if that were to happen there would be sufficient grounds to analyze the hammer beyond an ambiguous "oh, well, it was an accident!".

I suppose. I just don't think its particularly hard to take that stance and appear protown as scum here. At the end of the day he does want a quick lynch, if not a 'quicklynch', namean?

[Sephiroth]

I'm rethinking my town read on flubber for that reason, btw. Not playing favorites. I don't like how keen he is on tunneling HEM or how he accuses me of being HEM's partner because I'm hesitant to call it a day.