no, i'm saying that good scumreads come from "this player is playing inconsistently with how they would play as town"
not from "oh well it's possible this is consistent with their towngame"
those are difficult to produce which is why i've had more good townreads than good scumreads this game
JJD is playing inconsistently with his scumgame
nauci i have a tell on (also i can prove that i actually metadived nauci for the purposes of this game, and correctly HARD townread her for team mafia tiebreakers during N1 based partially on the meta research i'd already done for this game)
brassherald is playing inconsistently with how he would interact with his buddies as scum
etc
there are significantly more reasons as to why i'm inconsistent with how i'd play as a traitor
and 0 reasons as to why i'm inconsistent with my towngame
the "math doesn't bus of scumread without clearance/communication" is a major element there
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:21 am
by Mathdino
like espe's case literally makes more sense because it at least presumes that i rolled scum with beefster and was like "LOLBEEFSTER" and planned to drop him
gladiating a weakass scumpartner like beefster
with a "strong" town player like thor (strong from scum-me's perspective because it means he was right on me)
who could've
- towned it up hard by not being dumb about the BG claim
- claimed PR, because in retrospect he was dropping the BG tell all over the place AND I DIDNT NOTICE BECAUSE I AM TOWN
ends in a beefster lynch
like that day should've ended in a beef lynch
this is not how i play scum
i am on record for saying that elsewhere as well
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:24 am
by Wisdom
In post 551, Mathdino wrote:like espe's case literally makes more sense because it at least presumes that i rolled scum with beefster and was like "LOLBEEFSTER" and planned to drop him
you mean to tell me bussing beef while knowing you're getting zero value from your rolecop makes more sense somehow
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:26 am
by Mathdino
IT MAKES MORE SENSE THAN ME BUSSING HIM UNANNOUNCED
In post 521, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:@Wisdom: I', not even sure there is one. I said earlier that Scum might have also recruited their Traitor so Beef knew he was hammering Town for sure.
Mathdino wrote:How did I pre-plan the game when I wasn't even here to do so?
I hate to pull the self-meta card but both times I rolled scum with people in micros I tried my hardest to clear the bus with them beforehand so I don't become the asshole. I don't like losing to bad moves.
Now imagine the scenario in which I powerbus Beefster (trying my damnedest to actually get him lynched) without clearing it at ALL with him, and then get shot that night by mafia for being good and town leadering.
That reflects absolutely horribly on me and would be an asshole move to Beefster to just replace into his scumgame and completely fuck him over.
Anyone can use the "Math is still alive" argument all they want but is it conceivable that I expected to survive both these nights playing the way I did, and nailing Kotoko the way I did?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:32 am
by Wisdom
you trying to defend yourself is not helping you
i dont give a shit about selfmeta
In post 151, Espeonage wrote:Thor is scum. This is thor's scum game. Thor is setting up fake arguments to get himself involved in a discussion that people will ultimately not want to take a side on. He needs to go EARLY or he will just systematically kill everyone that will oppose him.
Lynch the fuck out of Thor
this is basically the post that convinced me
Thank you. I am too lazy to go back and research what made me link X to Y and rule out them being scum with Z, so you doing it for me is really appreciated.
THIS is one of the main reasons I put Espeo as possible Scum if Beef was scum and Thor was Town. I had ruled him out as Scum of Thor flipped scum.
Now look at it in the light of the flips and the NK choice and reread his posts of today and you would see why I very much disagree with anyone who says Espeo has Town told. In fact, he just recemtly said he would not vote UD for the rest of the game, so Espeo+UD+Beef makes sense to me.
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:33 am
by Mathdino
In post 557, Wisdom wrote:you trying to defend yourself is not helping you
i dont give a shit about selfmeta
there's a difference between self meta and "I am legitimately offended that you think i would bus my buddies without discussing it at all beforehand"
In post 151, Espeonage wrote:Thor is scum. This is thor's scum game. Thor is setting up fake arguments to get himself involved in a discussion that people will ultimately not want to take a side on. He needs to go EARLY or he will just systematically kill everyone that will oppose him.
Lynch the fuck out of Thor
this is basically the post that convinced me
Thank you. I am too lazy to go back and research what made me link X to Y and rule out them being scum with Z, so you doing it for me is really appreciated.
THIS is one of the main reasons I put Espeo as possible Scum if Beef was scum and Thor was Town. I had ruled him out as Scum of Thor flipped scum.
Now look at it in the light of the flips and the NK choice and reread his posts of today and you would see why I very much disagree with anyone who says Espeo has Town told. In fact, he just recemtly said he would not vote UD for the rest of the game, so Espeo+UD+Beef makes sense to me.
i'm still on TW
convince me it's not TW and PoE leads me to dig into espe/wis i think
i probably get run up before either of those happen but w/e
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:35 am
by Wisdom
VOTE: ugly
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:36 am
by Mathdino
ironically
the main way i could see wisdom or espeonage as scum is if they're an unrecruited traitor
however
because i am not playing like shit
i am uninterested in assuming what scum did (since they already played unexpectedly) in order to traitorhunt based off partially inaccurate assumptions
if Group A of players can be both traitor and groupscum
and Group B of players can ONLY be traitor
it's actually idiotic to lynch in group B
and that's why town fucking lost last game
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:38 am
by Wisdom
jjd, when esp made that post there were zero votes on beef
so its not like he was trying to get attention off beef
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:39 am
by Wisdom
also what do you mean about the nk choice? didnt you say esp wouldnt shoot the ic?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:40 am
by Mathdino
In post 565, Wisdom wrote:also what do you mean about the nk choice? didnt you say esp wouldnt shoot the ic?
precisely why espeonage only makes sense as traitor
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:40 am
by Judge Joseph Dredd
Where the freak is everybody else?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:41 am
by Judge Joseph Dredd
In post 565, Wisdom wrote:also what do you mean about the nk choice? didnt you say esp wouldnt shoot the ic?
Erm, no? I said neither you nor Dino would have.
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:42 am
by Wisdom
oh. then you think esp would?
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:46 am
by HeWhoSwims
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:48 am
by Judge Joseph Dredd
Yes. I think the entire scum team is less experienced because of:
1- The NK choice
2- The additional ability picks (picking the RC is weird, and I don't even think you would pick that without picking the daychat, so we probably have yet another PR out there, which is surprising against everything Mathdino had advocated in the dead thread of the game he modded).
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:48 am
by Mathdino
espeonage never makes that kill, JJD
also i need you to trust the nauci towntell, it worked for team mafia tiebreakers