Newbie 1867 - Game Over

[Scioness Sajj]

awww thanks

[Scioness Sajj]

though, it seems im generally town read and it's slightly bothering.

[Ircher]

Okay, so I just got done rereading this whole damn day 1, and I think that after reading through carefully, I am going to

UNVOTE

My reasoning is that I feel like I misread some of the posts from early and interpreted them in a way that was no conducive to how they were meant. Now, also with rereading all these posts, I feel like Ircher is our best bet for this Day 1 lynch.

I went back and watched him

flip and flop from one bandwagon to another

throughout

this

whole day phase

. I don't think that there is a single person who he hasn't voted for as of yet.

Now, as far as my reads go, I can really only go off of feelings as I have never played with anyone in this game before. Still, here we go,

Teacher, Nacho, Scioness - Town Lean
Vulcan, Nancy - Null
Ircher, northsidegal, Draynth - Scum Lean

As far as northside and Draynth go, I would have to go back and quote some posts that rubbed me the wrong way, but I am okay with moving past them today and going with

VOTE: Ircher

While I am sure you probably have more reasons than simply voting patterns, it seems a huge majority of your read on me seems to be based upon it, which is an issue because your reasoning about watching me "flip and flop from one bandwagon to another" is extremely flawed and objectively (and thus provably) false.

So, let's go through my votes:

Ugh... VOTE: Vulcan

First and foremost, the only other person voting Vulcan at this point is Crepppy. Furthermore, I did give a reasoning in 15 regarding my vote. Thus, one can clearly see that this vote is by no means me joining a Vulcan bandwagon; if I wanted to join a bandwagon, I would be voting Harambey, not Vulcan. Whether or not you agree with the reasoning is an entirely different matter that is irrelevant to the point I am making here.

A Draynth wagon would be worthwhile imo. Not a lot of content and what I consider a somewhat suspicious leap onto my wagon. (Granted, the reasoning is somewhat valid, just not necessarily “fair”.
VOTE: Draynth

Again, how can you consider this a bandwagon vote when no one else is voting Draynth at the time. (See 79). Furthermore, I gave reasons for my vote in the post itself showing that the vote isn't purely me voting a random person. Finally, this vote was in response to Harambey's request that we pressure someone that hasn't been active lately. (Also see 89.)

VOTE: Vulcan
Actually, I really prefer this currently (in light of what I said earlier). Partially because the game state seems to have gotten a standstill plus my vote on Draynth wasn't really accomplishing anything.

This is me basically returning to my earlier scumread that I was voting before 82 (i.e.: Vulcan) after other people point out that Vulcan and Draynth had done about the same. Now explain to me how your argument so far is in any way true.

VOTE: Vulcan
Tbqh, I think we really just need a flip at this point. I don't think we are going to have much more discussion this day.

I'm already voting Vulcan at this point; there is absolutely no reason why you could even consider this vote to be me bandwagoning Vulcan when my vote is already there.

VOTE: NSG

I explained this vote, and no one was voting North as of 250 (and no one voted North in the time between that VC and my vote), so again, how is this me "flip-flopping from one bandwagon to the next"? Also, you said I did that throughout the entire day phase, but for the majority of the day phase (as in like 80% of it), I've been voting Vulcan, so........

VOTE: No Lynch

I didn't explain this vote, but if you consider this vote to be a bandwagon vote, there is something seriously wrong.

VOTE: Teacher

Okay, so Teacher was at 2 votes before this vote (see 300), but I still think your argument has no basis in facts here. I did later explain that this basically amounted to an OMGUS vote; however, I didn't explain that immediately. Still, I want you to explain very clearly to me how this vote fits your interpretation of my voting pattern, because I do not see the connection what so ever.

Town Vibe:
Alciel/North --> 109
Draynth --> 175, 187, 256
Etromin --> 33, 70
Harambey/Nancy --> 35, 45, 152, 156, 313
Nacho --> 164, 165
Ventriloquist Rampage --> 270
Vulcan --> 14, 48, 105, 107, 118, 226, 234, 324

Scum Vibe:
Alciel/North --> 112
Draynth --> 51, 61
Etromin/Scion --> 13, 115, 247, 287, 292, 305
Harambey/Nancy --> 54, 131, 183, 192, 210, 236, 298
Ofrhz/Teacher --> 150, 215, 235, 263, 319
Ventriloquist/Rampage --> 126, 142, 193, 301
Vulcan --> 53, 60

VOTE: Teacher
Yes, I know I'm already voting. This time for realsies.

I'm already voting Teacher, so your point about me joining bandwagons here is irrelevant.

VOTE: Rampage
Your statement is flawed in so many ways..... I'll explain tomorrow (when it's more convenient for me to post.... eh that means this afternoon actually)

According to 454, no one was voting Rampage before my vote. Again, explain how this constitutes "flipping and flopping from one bandwagon to another".

My vote on you is directly related to the fundamental flaws in your scumread on me, and this vote goes beyond a surface level read of that you are simply wrong in your assessment; this feels like a purposeful misrepresentation of my voting pattern which appears to me to have likely come from scum hoping for an easy lynch on me. Like, on the surface, it may not seem that unreasonable, but if you look into the actual facts, it is nothing more than a severe misrepresentation of facts meant to give me ill repute. I would reconsider my read of your post (maybe I misjudged) except for the fact that you proceed to go and post this:

I mean, I am just saying your actions speak for themself. You have flip flopped more then a college frat boy at the beach okay.

(Alongside quoting most of my posts with vote in them.) This clearly indicates to me that either a) you are town that failed to research their case or b) (much more likely imo) scum trying to twist what is true and what is false to get someone lynched.
---
Back to my earlier ideas of town being more likely to commit mistakes than scum: this only applies if the mistake committed is genuine. In other words, the player in question misread the situation and is willing (and open) to alternative viewpoints. This is clearly not the case here as evidenced by 486. This feels like scum purposely warping the situation so as to get a mislynch through.

No one appeared to read this (except perhaps Rampage who basically ignored it in favor of his twisted perspective), so I'm quoting this again.

I'm not letting this get missed due to being at the bottom of a page.

[Scioness Sajj]

part of me wants to keep quoting with you to make it a full page

BUT let's be reasonable it is a big quote, people will instinctively ignore it. i dont think you will get the attention you are looking for just because you are stubborn about it.
---
i have read all of those post but i don't really have anything to say. i'm not scumreading you of your voting patterns and i'm waiting for rampage to answer my questions about 482

[Scioness Sajj]

I don't have time right now to read or your respond to your posts sorry @Scioness

i feel like we need to synchronize better, those posts are becoming outdated pretty fast.

You talked about it after the reads post and you barely talked about it when you did. You didn't even really talk about your own read, you just talked about why part of Nacho's read was bad.

About the post above just quickly, you didn't talk about your Draynth read before 376 unless I'm completely blind.

you are right about draynth, i was sure i did mention him earlier, sorry about that.
i have talked a little about why i tr draynth in one of my answers to you and that's about all i have to say really. i read them both of my experience with them and it is enough for me to give them both ticket to d2.

if you want something of a substance about ofrhz:
im tr ofrhz of the 'scumslip' he saw in Alciel's rvs vote.

when i was reading this game ofrhz felt right. i don't think he is self-aware enough to be able to fake how he goes around things to the extent that would give me this feeling. i played in both of his previous games, i believe i've made a semi-successful push on him as scum in 721. it is not hard to mislynch him, accidentally or not.

[Ircher]

New deadline for Day One is Monday, 21st May, 11pm BST, (in 0 days, 22 hours, 14 minutes).

We have less than a day, and we really aren't that close to a lynch.

[Scioness Sajj]

No, I want to lynch Draynth more than you. My read on you is pretty weak even if I had a lot to say and you are doing things while he isn't so I think it's smarter to kill him if I had to choose between you. I would probably lynch TheRampage before you as well. I don't really think I need to solve the game or even lynch scum today and I think I have a much better chance of seeing that you are town if my read is wrong than I do with him and if you are mafia then I'll have an extra dayphase of information to find your partner through interactions whereas Draynth will probably just continue to lurk.

o, i have got something to townread you for.
i understand where you are coming from with draynth but i think he will be easier to read as the days go.

After. The point of making a readlist is to help me understand where all my reads are and to help people understand where they all are as well. I don't think I need to be fully caught up to have relevant opinions.

yeah you don't but you are more likely than not to just create discussion and i feel like forcing people to commit to reads and get the day over with is the best we can do right now.

I just told you what I have read. If you think there's something important that I'm missing, then just quote it? It's not very hard to do. I don't understand what you even mean about doing all the work for me. What are you talking about sorry? I have read your ISO. I posted things about your ISO. How are you having to do all the work for me? I'm sorry that you feel it's hard talking to me, I don't really know what to tell you there. If you're town you should talk about your reads. I don't think talking about things that have happened is bad for the game, I don't understand why you do.

disregard this since i have thought that i have said things that i didn't.
taking about things is not, but going over the things that has already been spoken about, especially that i though you have missed what i have said, when we have that little time isn't ideal.

[Ircher]

Scion, what do you think about my Rampage read? Do you think his case is more likely to come from town or scum and why?

[vulcan logician]

Okay. I'm caught up (again). As it stands now I am still willing to lynch Ircher. But ofrhz and draynth seems to have pinged some people too. I'd consider switching to ofrhz, but dray seems null to me. Nancy also seems null at this point.

Scioness seems really townie. I take these sorts of day 1 impressions with a grain of salt, but nonetheless I feel she is not a good lynch for this cycle.

In all honesty all the reading that is currently going on is super-reachy. Day 1 is usually a bit reachy, but this particular game even more so. Not only that, it's like 30,000 wordcount dissertation of reachy-ness. I can't wait till day 2 when we have narrowed the field some and have some concrete information to work with.

[Ircher]

Vulcan, what about Rampage?

[vulcan logician]

Lemmie ISO him. Be back in 10 mins.

[Ircher]

Please read 552 as well.

[Scioness Sajj]

i am really becoming unhappy with those town reads on my slot considering that nancy has good point or two about me.

[Ircher]

Meh, I have more pressing scumreads to pursue, aka Rampage and Teacher (esp. the former).

[Scioness Sajj]

Scion, what do you think about my Rampage read? Do you think his case is more likely to come from town or scum and why?

well, i don't understand why you think he has more reasons to scumread you. he gave me an impression that doesn't generally has many reasons for anything.

i will talk more about therampage but i have one more post to write to nancy.

[Scioness Sajj]

558 is pretty underwhelming and if i had to chose a compromise lynch i'd go with vulcan over teacher i think

[Ircher]

I haven't metadived Vulcan, but his behavior this game has been fairly consistent with the notion of him being "newb-town".

[vulcan logician]

Rampage is the townish side of null. I agree with a bunch of his assessments but being correct about things doesn't necessarily mean you're town.

@Scioness- I'm actually NOT townreading you. But you do "feel" townie (whether it's because you are town or intentionally putting out those vibes IDK). My point was, you're not a good D1 lynch. Perhaps you will be a good candidate for D2. We'll see.

[Scioness Sajj]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[vulcan logician]

I haven't metadived Vulcan, but his behavior this game has been fairly consistent with the notion of him being "newb-town".

I've only rolled scum once (offsite). I can link you to the game, but it's not my proudest moment. I have one town game completed on this site.

[Ircher]

Rampage is the townish side of null. I agree with a bunch of his assessments but being correct about things doesn't necessarily mean you're town.

@Scioness- I'm actually NOT townreading you. But you do "feel" townie (whether it's because you are town or intentionally putting out those vibes IDK). My point was, you're not a good D1 lynch. Perhaps you will be a good candidate for D2. We'll see.

Please read 552 as well.

Did you do this?

[Scioness Sajj]

i have never really got a newb benefit beside my first game, i wonder why

[Scioness Sajj]

Rampage is the townish side of null. I agree with a bunch of his assessments but being correct about things doesn't necessarily mean you're town.

could you tell me what you agree with? one or two things even

[Scioness Sajj]

i have never really got a newb benefit beside my first game, i wonder why

newb benefit of doubt

[Ircher]

Yeah, I think Vulcan's behavior in his one game here matches my view of his behavior here.

Pedit: I mean, it depends on how you play. Your posts generally seem to read as a very competent player. Some players may be competent but not good at mafia, and others are incompetent; in either case, they generally do get the "newb benefit of the doubt" (if they are new) or are classified as low-hanging fruit/lynchbait if they are not new.