Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[jjh927]

Whose metaread is it

[northsidegal]

The newbie 1859 / open 721 - crew's read, I guess. Mainly pintu, though.

[Mathdino]

{nsg}
{BlackStar, ruru}

Crazy bout a northside gal

[northsidegal]

@Dino I know you don't like gutreads or at least is the worst type of reads from your perspective along with cold meta, but I played a long ass game being her scumpartner and until I see another game where she's scum, I will say I have an ability to read her towngames with a probability of 100%

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{BlackStar, ruru}

Crazy bout a northside gal

It also seems ruru and I agree on the bottom of our readslist.

[Mathdino]

Tfw Dino sheeping NSG sheeping pintu

What a good game

Pintu could be scum for that kind of confidence tho

[HeWhoSwims]

I feel like I should dump my thoughts from my discussion with Pintu, but they’re still a bit jumbly. So, bear with me.

I think Pintu is seeing the evidence completely differently than I am. At first I wanted to call that scummy, but if I had one word to describe our discussion, that word would be “reasonable”. He never got incensed or frustrated, or called me scummy for leaning on him, he just calmly explained his position and why he disagreed with me.
I don’t really like his predicates, but he was very insist on their validity, and he took those predicates to a reasonable place. I can see how he got from A to B, even if I disagree with A. He didn’t bow or give an inch in his discussion, while remaining willing to engage it.

My gut says that’s towny but I struggle to clearly explain why or specifically what parts of our discussion made me feel towny on him. Maybe that he’s playing highly cooperatively?

Sorry for the mess, but that’s where I ended up. I wish I could have ended up at a ‘yeah, got the scum!, but that would be stretching for a conclusion I wanted instead of the conclusion I think the evidence points towards. I think my initial scum lean was wrong.

I think that's a perfectly valid reason to townread. I haven't found myself having any problems with pin's reasoning and he seems open and ready to bring his A game to the thread. So yeah I do townread there.

So for real, tell me about dave? Is he lurking, active lurking, is this normal/abnormal coming from him, should we worry or is too early to know?

Burning the candle at both ends in a fashion -- 6am conference calls some days, worked a post graduation party for the kiddos till past midnight last night.

Congrats on your kids graduating! (?)

First order of business:

Blackstar voters, justify yourself.

I'm feeling pretty good about blackstar being town here. He's definitely going against the seeming "consensus opinion", but i fail to see where the "scum" part of that comes in. In fact, it's the opposite to me – he really doesn't seem to be concerned all that much with his own appearance. His thoughts and votes get him scumread, but they all feel totally real to me. I think a good example of what i'm trying to say is in his entrance with the vote on zoronos. as seen from the reactions it was definitely an "against the grain" move, but again, it all felt like completely real things that he actually thought:

-snip-

and, reading the thread myself, i can

see

where his thought is coming from.


i get a strange feeling that blackstar could be sorted pretty realiably using a spreadsheet (math probably knows what i'm talking about), but just on his play here i'm feeling pretty good about him being town.

Not voting there but I think some of his early posts are really really devoid of solid reads and or progression so to say. But this gets better lately so that's null for me... Still think the Zoro vote is/was bad though.

[northsidegal]

Yeah, I guess I might change this list to maybe have pintu one tier lower. I always seem to paranoia-read him, though

{nsg}
{BlackStar, ruru}
{davesaz, Zoronos}
{HeWhoSwims, pinturicchio}
{Mathdino, the worst, HitAlt}
{ofrhz, jjh927, Something_Smart}

strangely enough, despite the positioning i feel like if i'm wrong on any one of these it'd be within the {davesaz, zoronos} group.

[Mathdino]

Missed that post

Spreadsheets are bad for sorting players returning from hiatus

Edit: fwiw your bottom 3 is mine as well
Why aren't you townreading Hitalt

[northsidegal]

Math thoughts on the ability to spreadsheet-read blackstar?

[northsidegal]

Wow pedited

[northsidegal]

Should I be?

[Mathdino]

Yeah he's articulated some reads in ways that scum usually don't

His reads don't seem to actually follow an agenda and he's stubborn in a very human way

I was going to PoE wagon him but then I isod him and he's actually pretty solid

[Zoronos]

Someone want to fill me in on what 'WK / WKing' means?

I'm voting jjh because I know he's super obvtown as town and he hasn't obvtowned
We've discussed this privately after he died in the game I modded so he knows my expectations
He understands my vote so he's not scumreading me for it
So he can't just 1v1 me

So, make this explicit for me. You're basically saying 'He hasn't done enough towny things yet'? Is that a fair estimation of your read state, or am I missing something / not giving due credit to a deeper thought?

Alternatively, taking into account your 'too many townreads' statement, is this more of a PoE read? Everyone else is towny -> vote the ???'s until scum all ded.

[Mathdino]

White knighting, aka hard defending a townie against an evil voter

Yes that is what I am saying

It's not just a PoE read, it's me assuming that scum jjh is incapable of obvtowning

[Almost50]

Sharing is Caring D1 VC #9.01

ofrhz (3): northsidegal, BlackStar, the worst,
BlackStar (2): jjh927, ofrhz,
jjh927 (2): Mathdino, ruru,
Mathdino (1): pinturicchio,
the worst (1): HitAlt,
ruru (1): davesaz,

Not Voting: HeWhoSwims, Something_Smart, Zoronos,

S_S V/LA till Tuesday

(expired on 2018-06-06 23:00:00)

A Canuck was sitting in a kayak in a chilly night, so he lit a fire for a little warmth. Unfortunately, the craft caught fire and burned down, thus proving once and for all: You cannot have your kayak and heat it too.

[HeWhoSwims]

i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.

His activity isn't really AI right? I feel like his scum meta that I've read previously was like all power wolfing

Also I mean we're not wagoning the dinosaur d1 right like who does that

Hard agree. Everyone gets lost in work/school/whatever sometimes plus I actually like Math's content so far, even though its setup spec, it feels town motivated to me, I can't spot anything scummy honestly. Agree about leaving him alive here, Math is a good townie as far as I've read (never played with him, did mod him) so the risk of mislynching there day 1 seems too high to me.

@Zoronos if you excuse me, I'll start reading that and other things in the thread now, since I think I've dedicated almost all my time interacting with you I'll let you know if I see something at the duckling's wagon, but I'm not good at reading the duck... I think I have a null read in almost all our games and he has always been town in those.

@NSG yeah same problem, I've only seen town!Dino and the one time I thought I caught him he was an innocent child, great job me! But there's a Newbie Game that finished not long ago where Dino was scum and lost in LyLo; I only read the LyLo posts, but now that is over I will read the entire game. I mean, I don't know if I'll get something since he claims he shouldn't be metaread, but meh

I skimmed over the ending of that game (never saw Mathscum either I think) and he said that basically his playstyle was like his normal one - doing townie like stuff but hiding the townie motivation from it. I don't see that this game. I saw him critisize NSG for example - unsure scum!Math would benefit from or would want to do that especially if northsidegal is, as it seems, sorta buddies with Math or has played with him a lot? Plus his setup spec did seem townie to me. He was conservative in it because of giving scum info.

I have no reason to reverse my scumread on the duck.
I'd argue we can see scum!Zoro more easily after duck really flips scum.
Pintu legit feels like town.
One scum in ruru/orcfz is probable.
Blackstra is likely town, and the ones who have poked/voted there so far likely have scum in them, looking for a potential mislynch.

What's your Zoro-Duck link exactly?

What do you call a dinosaur fart?
A blast from the past!

VOTE: Almost50

I must agree, valid vote

VOTE: davesaz

This one isn't though. It's a naked vote, it's on someone I townlean, and it seems to be based on someone - gasp, how dare they - putting a vote on someone we're supposed to townread. sort of FOS here. Bad vote =/= scum.

[HeWhoSwims]

Also having skimmed over his ISO at this point I can see the ofrz wagon, seems like a too big part of low content posts. No bueno.

[Zoronos]

White knighting, aka hard defending a townie against an evil voter

Yes that is what I am saying

It's not just a PoE read, it's me assuming that scum jjh is incapable of obvtowning

Ah. I hadn't seen it reduced to an acronym before. I am familiar with the underlying idea. A mash up of buddying and being on the right side of history via TMI.

If you had agreed with the PoE sentiment, I was going to ask you how HWS fit into that puzzle, but both that wasn't your reasoning and I see he's posted twice above me and I haven't really digested yet what he wrote.

Jumping topics again, since you said HitAlt seems towny to you. Agree or Disagree - HitAlt seems standoffish / not actively inclined towards cooperation with others?

[Mathdino]

Yeah, stubborn
That's very human and is between a playstyle tell and a towntell

[northsidegal]

Someone want to fill me in on what 'WK / WKing' means?

Didn't I use this exact term earlier when describing jjh and his defense of you?

[BlackStar]

@ofhrz What do you think about jjh?

[HeWhoSwims]

tbh I think I'm being dumb with ofrhz. tonally she seems similar to our last game, but there's something awkward there.

also wagon motivation checks out

This feels like distancing and bussing at the same time

this feels like distancing and bussing at the same time

Isn't this sorta the same anyway except bussing is a bit more intense/grave?

I see that them having both been on the ofhrz wagon could be concerning, if that were an actual reason. But in fact I looked at activity to get the Mathdino lead. I get most of my leads on players I know by differences from past games, and then digging into the difference to find out if it's AI or not. If it's someone I don't know, I have to ask questions to determine what they think, and then see if what they say about what they think matches the behavior. This is why my approaches to MD and ruru are different, and previous wagon composition is merely a coincidence.

At least I'm getting a decent handle on you.

Pedit: MD has been controlling in every single town game I've ever seen. He's even tried to control my town game when we were on a team together in Team Mafia. Therefore not controlling is a huge difference and it needs to be investigated.

I think that last part is pretty good to keep in mind.

pedit - I think you did, nsg

[jjh927]

VOTE: Pintu

[Zoronos]

Someone want to fill me in on what 'WK / WKing' means?

Didn't I use this exact term earlier when describing jjh and his defense of you?

I had to go back and check to make sure I wasn't insane; no, you wrote it out.
I know what a White Knight is. I was just head scratching at what the acronym was and now feel stupid for not putting 2+2 together.